Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff, Blue posts

[Nymrohd]

Eek at AQ40 trash. Anubisath nightmare brigade or AQ suppression madness!

And trash could be challenging tbh. I think more people would die to Kael trash than to Void Reaver tbh.

[Geekbustarz]

So what you're saying is that haste will affect 100% of melee class's damage just like it will affect 100% of ranged class's damage. Hmm, sounds so unfair.

Yeah, it's unfair. Why should melee get faster resource-regeneration AND faster hits, and ranged (casters)
Only get x % faster casting?...

EDIT: wops, forgot the lower GCD... my bad :x

[Jasyn]

Eek at AQ40 trash. Anubisath nightmare brigade or AQ suppression madness!

And trash could be challenging tbh. I think more people would die to Kael trash than to Void Reaver tbh.

More people die to lootreaver trash than to lootreaver. Buzz-saw throwing bastards.

[Jasyn]

Yeah, it's unfair. Why should melee get faster resource-regeneration AND faster hits, and ranged (casters)
Only get x % faster casting?...

Faster casting and faster GCD.

[Geekbustarz]

Faster casting and faster GCD.

Yeah.. just remembered. sorry :P

[Waterisbest]

It's not a bad thing to nerf trash, really. Trash never challenged people, even if they wipe them on occasion. It's just there to slow people down by making them rez a few players every now and then and have to pause to give sheep targets and crap. That said, it never reached a point where it was 50% of the raid time unless you have the instance completely on farm mode.

Trash in tbc did challenge alot of guilds and was time consuming. The borg lords in ssc could instantly kill people if you didn't move from his acid in a sec. Also what Jasyn said.

People hardly spend time on trash now, in tbc trash was a big deal and by looking at things, in vanilla aswell.

If you didn't find tbc trash hard and time consuming, then your a complete different pro who stayed under the radar for all of WoW :P

[Tombstone]

Trash in tbc did challenge alot of guilds and was time consuming. The borg lords in ssc could instantly kill people if you didn't move from his acid in a sec. Also what Jasyn said.

People hardly spend time on trash now, in tbc trash was a big deal and by looking at things, in vanilla aswell.

If you didn't find tbc trash hard and time consuming, then your a complete different pro who stayed under the radar for all of WoW :P

Things trash offered in TBC:

1. Trash Epics (Lots of them)
2. Rep
3. Use of CC (Remember CC? Yeah, we used it.)
4. Coordination, everything wasn't just bunched up and AoE'd down.
5. Patterns, craftables (Vortexs etc) lots of them.

Did I forget anything?

[Siton]

Ulduar had some interesting trash ideas, but they were completely wiped in ToC+ICC

[alt]

Trash in tbc did challenge alot of guilds and was time consuming. The borg lords in ssc could instantly kill people if you didn't move from his acid in a sec. Also what Jasyn said.

People hardly spend time on trash now, in tbc trash was a big deal and by looking at things, in vanilla aswell.

If you didn't find tbc trash hard and time consuming, then your a complete different pro who stayed under the radar for all of WoW :P

I think you misunderstood that post. Trash wasn't hard in the sense that you didn't really have to learn them. Except Kalecgos' trash, which was retardedly difficult. It was just time consuming in that it will kill a few raid members here and there, slowing people down. Or it will make people waste so much time giving CC targets and crap like that. Time consuming plays a part in difficulty but it doesn't necessarily make things difficult if they are time-consuming.

Supremus, for example, is just like a trash mob. He almost never fails to kill some people in my guild, took a long time to kill but really was an easy boss that we almost never wipe to.

[alt]

Also remember, trash also dropped a lot more epics and it seemed to drop them a lot more often considering the amount of trash there was. It also gave rep and they dropped patterns for professions. I think it was a big part of TBC.

I was never a fan of that. People shouldn't be able to grind trash to get BiS gear. Not to mention it made people give the wrong reactions to wiping and having trash respawn. Yay we wiped to Kalecgos, more trash farming!

[Pisholina]

So everyone here seems to argue about the topic that will end when Blizzard announces soething new. But guess what? All the flaming, nerdraging and yelling at each other won't make Blizzard change their minds. The buff will stay, you will do ICC the way you want to, everyone will be happy.

And about people saying that the guys that downed ICC first will have a moral breakdown, I can only say it happens all the time. How many of you had a Grand Ice Mammoth before 3.1, when you actually had to do the dailys for Sons of Hodir rep and then spending 8000 gold on the mount? I did that and when I did, I bragged to all my friends about it. And all of a sudden my friend has the same mount only in black color just because he was lucky on a roll from VoA raid. How would you feel? So I am telling you again, It happens all the time and guess what? You can't do ANYTHING to stop it.

[furydeath]

lol i wanta see a lich king kill where it says raid ID reset in 6 mins. XD

[Waterisbest]

Ulduar had some interesting trash ideas, but they were completely wiped in ToC+ICC

According to me, ICC trash is interesting, all the traps make you think before running in and mashing your keys, not to forget some awesome mini bosses. Ulduar trash was good aswell.

[Tombstone]

So everyone here seems to argue about the topic that will end when Blizzard announces soething new. But guess what? All the flaming, nerdraging and yelling at each other won't make Blizzard change their minds. The buff will stay, you will do ICC the way you want to, everyone will be happy.

And about people saying that the guys that downed ICC first will have a moral breakdown, I can only say it happens all the time. How many of you had a Grand Ice Mammoth before 3.1, when you actually had to do the dailys for Sons of Hodir rep and then spending 8000 gold on the mount? I did that and when I did, I bragged to all my friends about it. And all of a sudden my friend has the same mount only in black color just because he was lucky on a roll from VoA raid. How would you feel? So I am telling you again, It happens all the time and guess what? You can't do ANYTHING to stop it.

Because having a ground mount in the age of flying mounts was a personal feat of strength and a sign of accomplishment? I don't think I have ever seen anyone brag about having a Grand Ice Mammoth or even a Black War Mammoth, I bought mine for 3k gold from a VoA10 and felt nothing about it. This game has gotten to the point where mounts don't mean anything unless you get them from a Meta, and even then it doesn't mean that much because you can fork over a ton of gold and get a Rusted or Ironbound, and within a few months people will be selling the ICC ones. Just my two cents, don't nerdrage over it.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Yeah, it's unfair. Why should melee get faster resource-regeneration AND faster hits, and ranged (casters)
Only get x % faster casting?...

EDIT: wops, forgot the lower GCD... my bad :x

Because you guys start with a boat load of mana that is slowly whittled down and regenerated through things like replenishment, whereas melee starts with a finite amount using abilities that take up 30-40% of our total resources (compared to say 1-2%)?

[Waterisbest]

Because having a ground mount in the age of flying mounts was a personal feat of strength and a sign of accomplishment? I don't think I have ever seen anyone brag about having a Grand Ice Mammoth or even a Black War Mammoth, I bought mine for 3k gold from a VoA10 and felt nothing about it. This game has gotten to the point where mounts don't mean anything unless you get them from a Meta, and even then it doesn't mean that much because you can fork over a ton of gold and get a Rusted or Ironbound, and within a few months people will be selling the ICC ones. Just my two cents, don't nerdrage over it.

Guilds will always sell meta mounts. Just like many guilds sold ZA mount. They see it as a good income. There is nothing blizz can do about it. The real pros are running around with death's demise, grand crusader and atm kingslayer (not sure if there is a title to kill LK on hc mode). Titles are the best thing to distinguish between hardcore and good raider. Bragging over a mount never made sense to me.

[MrPistachio]

THE KING OF STROMWIND IS LENDING YOU HIS POWER GAIZ

[Baygon]

people just need to calm down about this buff coming out. if you don't like it don't use it, i know i'll be using it to help my guild learn the fights and kill stuff and when we are ready we will turn it off.

[Tombstone]

Because you guys start with a boat load of mana that is slowly whittled down and regenerated through things like replenishment, whereas melee starts with a finite amount using abilities that take up 30-40% of our total resources (compared to say 1-2%)?

You make a valid point, but also take in account that melee generally never have to move, while casters are generally moving all over the place avoiding god knows what, which is a dps loss.

[Markluzz]

I shall explain to you how haste works and then you can judge for yourself -

White hits (melee) - Decreases the white attack swing timer so that the time between each swing is shortened, thus providing more dps. White attacks are unaffected by lag and receive full haste benefit all of the time you stand close to the boss. Haste on white attacks is a passive bonus that is not prone to user error.

Channelled and cast times (caster) - Does not decreases the time between attacks (unlike melee haste), but rather decreases the time it takes to cast or channel a spell. Since the time between casted attacks is 100% user dependant and therefore affected by lag, haste for casters does not provide full bonus all of the time. It is not passive, prone to user error and is valued a heck of a lot less in lag period.

DoT's - Completely unaffected by haste. Only SOME dots if glyphed will benefit from haste. Rest of the dots receive no haste benefit at all.

Proposed changes - The time between melee yellow attacks is decreased.

This is exponentially unfair towards casters because haste passively affects white hits which recieve full benefit and user error and lag have no affect on the white attacks. Yellow attacks are instant damage, whereas casted attacks have to wait xx seconds before the damage lands.


So if this change happens in Cata we have -

Melee - Receive 100% benefit from a passively working haste buff on white attacks, and full haste benefit on instant damaging attacks that will only minorly be affected by lag, and almost no impact on user error if they mash there buttons.

Casters - Receive 100% benefit from haste WHILST CASTING, no benefit whatsover whilst moving, and some damage attacked (DOTS) receiving no benefit whatsoever from haste.


THAT is why it is unfair.

Yet think it this way, most hunters, rogues, and warriors dont want haste AT ALL. They would much rather have armor penetration and crit because haste barely benefits us, and blizz is basically taking armor pen away besides in talents where we may get 20-40% which is no where near how much we have now. If you look at it our damage should be about the same from the massive armor pen drop we will recieve.