Mangle change seems a bit much

[teddabear]

My previous comments are coming from the kitty perspective, not the bear. For bear, yeah, it can provide a bit better short-term single-target snap threat compared to the MSS route, but the overall TPS with either spec is roughly the same, so I wouldn't throw it into the "god" category. I really don't want to get into the "Blizz doesn't design fights around bears going dps in fights, therefore a kitty argument for a bear spec is pointless" debate, that's run its course several times over. Since the Mangle/Trauma debuff lasts 1 minute, it removes the need for Imp. Mangle for the Mangle-bot of the group, and it's definitely not going to be wanted for a pure DPS spec in the PvE department if the points can go elsewhere. Blizz has effectively removed several reasons for picking up the talent at all, even as a "fun" mechanic, if you can call it that. Tanks don't need it, kitties won't want it in PvE raiding period, PvP... eh, not even everyone decides to pick it up (since ideally you want to be Shredding anyways). The only feasible time where Imp. Mangle would be a must-have talent would be grinding/leveling.

Blizz has recently made blue posts concerning tanks threat, and glyphing Mangle won't change the weaker area of our threat, which is AoE. With single target threat, you should not need the Mangle glyph unless you are severely undergeared compared to your DPS. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the Mangle debuff and glyph changes, they'll make my job a lot easier. The changes, though, have severely limited the viable application of the Imp. Mangle talent and Mangle glyph.

I mangle enough on Princes and Putricide that I don't see me getting rid of improved mangle unless I had 2 Kitty specs which I don't. I may be alone on the Princes issue but its a very disorganized fight for us even though we usually manage to 1 shot it. I definitely disagree about PvP though, I predict the mangle glyph will be extremely popular in PvP.

[Tharkkun]

Lich King is a very stupid fight to rank dps on. The majority of people that are high on meters are there because they're swiping adds in P1, which is retarded. The only time you should be swiping is when the valks are all together just as they drop down, and even that is up in the air depending on your strategy.

Fury warriors and Ret Paladins should do very well on the meters, but what really matters is dmg done to Lich King, dmg done to Valks, and dmg done to the spirits (N/A for melee). LK is a retard check, not a dps race.

Sorry I just happened to have the Lich King bookmarked because I was looking at that last. You can hit the dropdown and see every boss in ICC, sort by top DPS, or Average dps between each class, etc. This was taken over a 2 week period providing the best single target buffs to each class, ignoring mechanics like add switching etc so you can see how they rank. It's like gearscore don't take it as the absolute truth. My point was we're not one of the lowest dps.

[littlepiggy]

I mangle enough on Princes and Putricide that I don't see me getting rid of improved mangle unless I had 2 Kitty specs which I don't. I may be alone on the Princes issue but its a very disorganized fight for us even though we usually manage to 1 shot it. I definitely disagree about PvP though, I predict the mangle glyph will be extremely popular in PvP.

this, plus there isn't really anything worth dropping to put the points from mangle into

[exochaft]

I mangle enough on Princes and Putricide that I don't see me getting rid of improved mangle unless I had 2 Kitty specs which I don't. I may be alone on the Princes issue but its a very disorganized fight for us even though we usually manage to 1 shot it. I definitely disagree about PvP though, I predict the mangle glyph will be extremely popular in PvP.

I was stating that the Imp. Mangle talent was not a must-have for PvP, the new Mangle glyph would be hawt for PvP though.

For Princes and Putricide, I suppose it really depends on your group. Generally when I start a kitty rotation, it's a Mangle, Rake, SR, so the debuff will be going up or refreshed anyways. On Putricide, you'd be lucky to get a 5-point rotation right now before oozes dies (our raid puts melee only on the green oozes, cept on hardmode, so the debuff will be up regardless). Princes... with the new change, you'd probably put Mangle up 4 or 5 times before the fight ends. For both cases, the energy "saved" with Imp Mangle talenting would be lost in travel time or latency anyways. As it stands, if you don't have a Mangle-bot, talenting Imp. Mangle is worth it since you have to reapply it rather often. When the new changes come out, Mangles will be coming out a LOT less from kitties, making the talent less worthwhile.

The talent points that get freed up from not speccing Imp Mangle could go into talents such as Feral Aggression if you want to max out the damage numbers. I like putting it into Infected Wounds or SI or Nuturing Instinct, which aren't damage talents, but they're nice to have around when needed and more "fun" than Imp. Mangle.

[teddabear]

NI would be my choice if I could find the points. Maybe if they change Furor to 3 points someday I'll pull 1 point out of improved mangle.

[Fojos]

FFF lasted 45 seconds and cost 0 energy. It wasn't difficult at all to keep the debuff up.

Indeed, it might have been a problem as a class with rage or mana, because they tend to use every GCD. Feral has very many windows where we don't use many abilities. I still use faerie fire all the time because that's what I got used to.