Disc Trinket PVE

[Fallyn]

Gonna agree with Bigslick here.

If you never go OOM, wheres the difference between 44k mana and 25k?

I don't gem for int at all in any of my gear, I run Lightweave on my cloak and I have throughput trinkets (Alathor and that one from u10 thorim, name escapes me).

I never go OOM, and people don't die on my watch. So I'd rather focus on throughput if mana isnt an issue, and I gem sp/crit accordingly (crit for yellow obv.).

Haste is also a non issue, since I have a base 8%+6% talents+25% Bt, so soft-capping is moderately prevalent.

Cheers!

[qhs]

Well, IMHO it's time to offer some feedback. Int is only needed to point that you no longer have normal concerns about mana in an encounter after factoring in use of HoH, shadowfiend, and pot. After that stacking it is a very poor choice. If you feel that strongly about the value of crit, you get more crit budgeted from a crit gem than an int gem even after talents and kings, so you'd want to go that way.

As to 'more than enough SP for a raid environment,' there's not a magic number after which throughput is useless for a disc priest. SP = guaranteed throughput, and is not heavily regulated by RNG as is crit. You're running at 2575 SP unbuffed, which is extremely low for ICC content. At LK, it will not fully absorb the damage from infest (though it may absorb enough to keep people from dropping below the critical 90% threshold, not sure). At your level of progression you should really be aiming for a minimum of about 3k SP.

By regemming your Int gems to SP, you'll still have a healthy amount of crit and be sitting at 2995 SP, a reasonable amount. Swapping your Talisman of Resurgence to a throughput trinket will put you into much more comfortable position. Right now you would have to intentionally dump mana to go OOM and even then you'd have to choose what are generally not optimal spells to spam - like PoH - to do it.

If you are hesitant, try just switching your Talisman to a throughput trinket for now. See if you miss that 128 int. If not, switch 6 gems to SP and see again. Rinse and repeat. If you get to the point where you start to see mana as a real issue (make sure you're using all your CD's effectively), use the talisman as a tool to switch in for those fights you feel you need that extra buffer, and use throughput trinket when you don't.

Unbuffed, I'm running about 9k less mana than you, and my base in-combat regen is 246MP5 less than yours (though I have 2nd solace that makes up about half of that), and I don't use the Insightful meta. I run about with about 300 more haste, and I gem for pure SP. But aside from Lich King, there's not a fight in which managing mana has been an issue, and I don't get the benefit of a mana tide totem or innervate.

TLDR: If mana is a total non-issue, then lack of throughput is. Switch regen options to throughput until mana becomes something you have to be aware of and actively manage cooldowns to maintain. At your level of gearing you'll probably be able to lose most if not all of your int gems for real throughput.

And i looked at your armory, Why would you Gem for spirit as a disc priest? You don't need regen. Also, ya, your SP is high, but Crit is what ultimately matters.

[Bigslick]

So your telling me, i should drop my INT gems for crit gems? Are you kidding me? 3ksp during raids is more then enough for ICC. I have a Solace as well from heroic and normal, i chose not to use it. I never run out of mana, My PW:S worked perfect last night on LK. AT MOST, i could gem 12sp/12int gems. but to replace them with crit, is pretty dumb IMO.

No, that's not what I said.

If you feel that strongly about the value of crit, you get more crit budgeted from a crit gem than an int gem even after talents and kings, so you'd want to go that way.

That's what I said. I said you should drop your Int gems for SP gems. YOU ARE NOT A PALADIN! And I said that if you valued crit that highly (whereas the general consensus is that SP > crit) then gemming crit would be more valuable than gemming int provided mana longevity is not an issue, which you've stated is the case.

As to 3k SP being 'more than enough' for ICC, do you not feel you have 'more than enough' int? It seems you feel your throughput is 'enough' and that no more is needed, but do you think adding mana and a marginal amount of crit from int outweighs the more direct contribution you'd receive from SP?

Gemming int beyond where your mana longevity requires it is the weakest contribution to your performance you can give, possibly matched by your use of Talisman of Resurgence as opposed to an actual throughput trinket.

And i looked at your armory, Why would you Gem for spirit as a disc priest? You don't need regen. Also, ya, your SP is high, but Crit is what ultimately matters.

Did you by chance look at the spec I was logged off in? Holy spec. Spirit isn't a waste there. My disc spec is gemmed 100% for SP, with the exception of a SP/MP5 gem in the helm because I just felt too guilty to not take 9 SP socket bonus and accept 5 MP5 in exchange for the loss of 2 SP by going with a straight SP gem.

And yes, crit is important, along with haste, both immeasurably more valuable than int once mana isn't an issue. In my disc set (which is what I'm normally logged out in) I run over 40% holy crit unbuffed, so am not lacking in that department despite not gemming for it. But is crit ultimately more important that SP? No. It's important towards increasing DA uptime, but the reality is it doesn't take that much crit, and with the DA cap probably remaining at 10k it will be maxed more often with the zone buff. Beyond that, crit is still RNG, and so long as I have a certain minimum (I've always felt 30% unbuffed is enough, though more is welcome) SP will deliver performance on every cast, crit or non-crit.


TLDR: You are NOT a paladin. Don't gem like one.

[Fenixdown]

Abacus is best served in the hands of a resto druid, holy priest, or resto shaman. Especially resto shaman (5-target chain heals ftw).

The best two trinkets for discipline are Lunar Dust and Solace. Yes, that's right. A 245 trinket is still top two best in slot for a 264 instance.

Sliver is a decent filler, or if you're still doing Ulduar go get a Plea. But Abacus should be in the hands of a raid healer.

Actually, I would even rate Bauble far higher for disc than Abacus.

[healem]

I dont know why any healer would not want the Abacus. I use it as a disc priest and Echoes of Light gives me 2.5% healing or more and i usually get under 20% overhealing from the proc (5.5k normal, 10.5crit). I dont have mana issues and the SP it gives it great. And when you're 2 healing 10man with a Hpally, its even better.

I run around with Solace (245) and the Abacus

[qhs]

No, that's not what I said.

That's what I said. I said you should drop your Int gems for SP gems. And I said that if you valued crit that highly (whereas the general consensus is that SP > crit) then gemming crit would be more valuable than gemming int provided mana longevity is not an issue, which you've stated is the case.

As to 3k SP being 'more than enough' for ICC, do you not feel you have 'more than enough' int? It seems you feel your throughput is 'enough' and that no more is needed, but do you think adding mana and a marginal amount of crit from int outweighs the more direct contribution you'd receive from SP?

Gemming int beyond where your mana longevity requires it is the weakest contribution to your performance you can give, possibly matched by your use of Talisman of Resurgence as opposed to an actual throughput trinket.


Did you by chance look at the spec I was logged off in? Holy spec. Spirit isn't a waste there. My disc spec is gemmed 100% for SP, with the exception of a SP/MP5 gem in the helm because I just felt too guilty to not take 9 SP socket bonus and accept 5 MP5 in exchange for the loss of 2 SP by going with a straight SP gem.

And yes, crit is important, along with haste, both immeasurably more valuable than int once mana isn't an issue. In my disc set (which is what I'm normally logged out in) I run over 40% holy crit unbuffed, so am not lacking in that department despite not gemming for it. But is crit ultimately more important that SP? No. It's important towards increasing DA uptime, but the reality is it doesn't take that much crit, and with the DA cap probably remaining at 10k it will be maxed more often with the zone buff. Beyond that, crit is still RNG, and so long as I have a certain minimum (I've always felt 30% unbuffed is enough, though more is welcome) SP will deliver performance on every cast, crit or non-crit.

To be honest i dont feel SP/Haste is that BIG of an issue. What are my main spells, PWS, Penance, POM. (Divine Aegis).

These are all instant spells, and i understand SP scales with PWS, with borrowed time.

But Divine Aegis procs off crit, and absorbs 30% of amount crited.

[Bigslick]

To be honest i dont feel SP/Haste is that BIG of an issue. What are my main spells, PWS, Penance, POM. (Divine Aegis).

These are all instant spells, and i understand SP scales with PWS, with borrowed time.

But Divine Aegis procs off crit, and absorbs 30% of amount crited.

What is the BIG issue then? Mana? That's what your perspective would seem to be, from your gemming options.

Let's review. First off, regarding your main spells, you've left off FH (unless you just mindlessly spam PWS waiting for Penance and PoM to come off of CD). You are concerned about getting lots of absorbs, right? Shield strengh -- your # 1 source of absorbs -- is solely determined by SP and is not impacted by crit. Divine Aegis is impacted by crit in determining the rate of application, but SP determines the strength of that absorb.

Now let's go back to my original suggestion: Drop the int gems. More mana doesn't give more or stronger absorbs, except in the extremely inefficient increase they provide to your crit. SP will give you more absorbed per cast than crit (though you still want a certain baseline), followed by crit. Int is about the worst choice to socket.

Now let's look at another item, your meta choice. IED (your current choice) is one of the best options for a healer for a meta due to its overbudgeted mana return, if they need the mana. If mana isn't an issue, other metas for throughput become better. Want your DA to be stronger? Go with RSD. Want more SP for all your heals/absorbs to be stronger? Go with ESD. Personally I'd recommend you stay with IED for now, switch all the other gems to SP (and trinket to throughput) and see how it fares. If mana is still not an issue, then consider one of the throughput metas.

Everything you've done in gemming is to enhance the aspect of play with which you've had the least concern. Balance yourself.

TLDR: You are NOT a paladin. Don't gem like one.

TLDR: You are NOT a paladin. Don't gem like one.

TLDR: You are NOT a paladin. Don't gem like one.

[cruxxy]

If you want to walk into an instance, click some buttons, gab on vent, have some fun, then you can gem however you want.

If you want to maximize your performance as a Disc healer, then you want to push your throughput as far as you can without going OOM midfight. Keep in mind, going OOM includes using your fiend and HoH appropriately in most every fight.

I can tell you that Disc healing through 9/12 ICC25 hardmodes with Lunar and Sliver as trinkets and Insightful meta, I have never asked for an innervate (unless I get brezzed) and I never run out of mana (ok... heroic Valithria, I need innervates). And this is without a single int gem. This includes shield spamming LK.

If you look at any log of a raiding Disc priest, by far the top heal is PWS. The only stat that boosts the performance of your top heal is SP. Keep in mind that SP also boosts all of your other heals also.

There is no question that of all the healers, Disc benefits the most from crit. But it is still inferior to SP if you look at your overall performance. Don't theorycraft it. Track your performance on a raid log.

All healers look for ways to optimize their EFFECTIVE healing. Other healing classes don't gem for SP because their healing trees/spells are already high throughput and SP gemming would only lead to more overhealing.

Pallies - pure int because it directly boosts throughput and allows them to spam a mana-intensive spell

Shammies - pure haste because their main spell is CH, a slow spell, so haste maximizes their effective throughput

Holy priests - heavy haste. Holy is a very high throughput tree and Holy has become all about instant casts to minimizing your GCD is a solid boost to your effective throughput

Druids - haste. Similar to holy priests, plus their main HoT is hasted

Disc is a very low throughput tree. Also there is never a point where your shields are "too big". Since we come to a raid to mitigate damage, the way to optimize your play as Disc is to maximize your shields and that is SPELLPOWER, pure and simple.

[jifjosh]

So your telling me, i should drop my INT gems for crit gems? Are you kidding me? 3ksp during raids is more then enough for ICC. I have a Solace as well from heroic and normal, i chose not to use it. I never run out of mana, My PW:S worked perfect last night on LK. AT MOST, i could gem 12sp/12int gems. but to replace them with crit, is pretty dumb IMO.

Sounds like you love feed back. No really.

If you aren't fiending or you end the fight with over 80% mana then you are gemming or gearing incorrectly, just because they only allow one pot per combat phase doesn't mean we need to stack regen to the point that mana is a non issue, that's EXACTLY what the devs are trying to get away from with healers, your *reckless* stacking of regeneration.

[Deleted]

Also, ya, your SP is high, but Crit is what ultimately matters.

I'm sorry but had little giggle at your gem choice mate. Haven't seen int Priest since... early Ulduar or something?

And about this quote... I see you're doing more 10 mas than 25 mans. In which case crit might be a bit more valuable. Simply if you're double healing 10 man with an AoE healer (Druid, shammie or Holy Priest) you might want to spam FH/Penances on Tanks and recieve nice Aegis proccs.
Unfortunately even in the most crit loving raid compositions this stat is still WAY worse than pure SP. All spells benfit from SP. But only the most important one - PW:S recieves very little benefit from crit (Glyph). Now check your logs and see how much dmg you prevented by your shield. I bet it will be on top of your healing done .

And about regen - there is none single 10 man fight you might be afraid of going OOM (apart the LK - Solace or a bit more careful mana management will solve this issue) gemming almost totaly in SP. If you don't have problems with gold simply replace all your gems with Rubies. Enter the ICC, and use mana CDs wisely (time fiend with Hymn of Hope when youre going low and buy a few stacks of Runic Mana Pots. It's not that hard in normal modes. Now check logs again. You WILL be higher on HPS. And YES, I know HPS isn't everything. But from gear/gem perspective it's the most important thing. Apart from HPS theres "skill" but you can have it in ungemmed blues :P.

[d4rky]

Depends...
i have Solac(258), abacus and lunar.
most of the time i use Abacus and lunar for max HPS. But in Heavy shield encounters i change abacus and use solace together with lunar.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...gonmaw&cn=Qhsz
thats what i use.

well this just shows how you don't understand you class.
don't know how your raid doesn't say anything because you healing must be really bad for that gear.
I mean i don't have mana issues with 32k Mana RAIDBUFFED (most time as said with abcaus + regen trinket) and you got nearly 39k Mana UNBUFFED.
Just a joke, you will never spend all your mana in a fight if using shadowfiend and hymn of hope correctly, but you output will be pretty low.

Abacus is best served in the hands of a resto druid, holy priest, or resto shaman. Especially resto shaman (5-target chain heals ftw).

The best two trinkets for discipline are Lunar Dust and Solace. Yes, that's right. A 245 trinket is still top two best in slot for a 264 instance.

Sliver is a decent filler, or if you're still doing Ulduar go get a Plea. But Abacus should be in the hands of a raid healer.

Actually, I would even rate Bauble far higher for disc than Abacus.

why should other healers have more benefit? maybe they get of the proggs a bit faster but even in a long fight they will at most get 1 extra heal but most times not even that. it has a high progg chance and a internal GC meaning the benefit for every healer is about the same, the question is are there better trinkets for some healers ... and for disc well thats not really the case, mostly no mana problems and abacus delivers max spellpower ... as a paladin may like a int trinket and a holy priest maybe prefer some reggen.