Trinket question: Prot

[Tyrrandion]

Hiya.

I'm Having A bit of a dilemma as to which trinkets I should be using/farming for. Currently for my prot spec, I'm using The Black Heart and Ick's Rotting Thumb, which is basically my default set up for heroics. In the coming weeks I'm hoping to be seeing some time tanking ICC 10 mans, though, and I've heard that the rotting thumb is a pretty weak option, due to the chill of the throne debuff, so I'm looking at replacing it.

I'm working on my JC at the moment, so I've thought of sticking a monarch crab in the slot, and gemming it out w/ 2 solid dragons eyes, effectively making it a fairly solid EHP trinket. I would like to stick all three dragons eyes in my Breastplate, but if the monarch crab is going to be my best option, I'll throw the 2 in there until I can get an upgrade.

The other options I've seen used in the slot are the glyph of indom. from 50 badges (seemed a pretty big waste of badges to me, but I could of course be wrong), and the onyxian blood talisman. If anyone has any advice, I'd be glad to hear it. Thanks in advance.

Peace

[Cardolan]

The Glyph of Indomitability is actually a very good trinket, and I'd personally use that with the Black Heart until you have access to the better trinkets (Satrina's Impeding Scarab and Corroded Skeleton Key).

[Stormgard88]

Armor is GOOD. Get the glyph of indomitability until something better drops

[Aedh]

For ICC stam trinkets are gawds. Armor trinkets are more situational. Don't bother with avoidance trinkets for raiding.

For heroics, you can use any trinkets that make you feel sexy.

[Korgilius]

Glyph of Indomitability is a very good trinket atm. Bonus armor is extremely useful because of the chill of the throne debuff (you avoid less -> you get more hits -> armor mitigates more dmg). Personally on my warrior I'm using it now with the Corroded Skeleton Key. Those who think armor isn't a good stat, need to do some maths. Also the 6.5% extra dodge from the Glyph of Indomitability's use effect isn't bad either, if you use it on cooldown it has 16.66% uptime, or it can easily save your ass, if you don't spam it on cooldown, but use it when it's really needed. Or for example on Saurfang since you tank 50% of the time, if you use it properly, you'll have the effect up 33.33% of your tanking time.

The following numbers are the stats of my warrior (the same goes for a paladin tank) unbuffed :
- with Glyph of Indomitability 29791 armor = 66.17% physical dmg taken reduction. So a hit will hit you for 33.83% of the initial dmg.
- with any other non-armor trinket 27799 armor = 64.77% physical dmg taken reduction. So a hit will hit you for 35.23% of the initial dmg.
Some (not to bright) players would say it's a 1.4% difference (35.23 - 33.83), and therefore they say everyone that armor is a bad stat. BUT actually it's not true, it's a 4% difference! Let's say a raw hit would hit you 100,000 dmg. Without the extra armor trinket you'd get 35230 dmg, with with extra armor you'd get 33830 dmg. 33830 is 96% of 35230 => you get 4% less dmg with Glyph of Indomitability.
Note that these numbers depend on your armor rating, with my current stats, it's 4%, if you have more/less armor, it can be ~3.5%-4.5%, I also didn't calculate in raid buffs (armor totem, mark of the wild, indestructible potion), which make this even stronger before you hit the 75% armor cap, which you probably won't hit.

Ofc armor isn't a good stat for the fights where you get a lot of magic dmg, since it only reduces physical, but dodge/parry does the same. That's why many endgame tanks aim for high armor these days.

However about the dodge trinkets, the chill of the throne has NOTHING to do with it being good or bad. The only case it's bad because of that, is if you have less then 20% dodge outside ICC, in which case you shouldn't even think about tanking there... The debuff gives you -20% dodge, that doesn't mean dodge is bad, or it's useless... you need avoidance, and in the matter of fact that debuff makes dodge even more valuable then parry : you'll have more parry then dodge probably anyway, so diminishing returns will make parry even worse. (On a sidenote dodge is better then parry even outside ICC, this mechanics just makes it even more better).

Also the question "which trinket is better?" can't really be answered. It all depends on the boss you're tanking. For example on Saurfang you want to maximize your avoidance (dodge/parry) even if you lose some HP/mitigation/aggro.

I hope it helped.

[Korgilius]

For ICC stam trinkets are gawds. Armor trinkets are more situational. Don't bother with avoidance trinkets for raiding.

That's not true. Yes, there are some fights where a stamina trinket is the best (Sindragosa for example), but in most fights you can have easily enough HP without stamina trinkets, and you can gain a lot of avoidance/mitigation on your trinket slots.

As I meantioned in my last post, for Saurfang avoidance is the best stat, I even use some 232-245 items for higher avoidance. If you avoid his hits, he won't get any blood power -> less Marks. And if there are marks that actually multiplies. If you have 2 marked players in your raid, and the boss hits you, he'll get 3 blood power points, and your healers will have to heal up 3 players, if you avoid the hit, nothing happens. Also he doesn't hit the tanks hard at all (if he'd hit too hard, he'd just oneshot the marked players), so your healers have to be able to keep the tanks up even if they nerf their stamina for higher avoidance.

Actually I'd say the need for a very high stamina (the need for stamina trinkets) is more situational then the need for more armor. Having 53k or 55k HP shoudn't make a big difference, your healers will spam you all the time anyway, and a lot of healing will go for overhealing anyway. So maximizing your stamina is only good for fights where you take a lot of magic dmg, and for the fights where you get insanely high hits. For example if you can get one-shotted without your stamina trinket.

[Aedh]

debuff makes dodge even more valuable then parry : you'll have more parry then dodge probably anyway, so diminishing returns will make parry even worse. (On a sidenote dodge is better then parry even outside ICC, this mechanics just makes it even more better).

I agree with everything but this. The -20% is applied AFTER diminishing returns. Dodge is still likely to be better, depending on your dodgearry ratio OUTSIDE of ICC. What this means is you still get the same increase in your %dodge per point of rating inside and outside of ICC.

Any fight that favors avoidance, barring a fight where it's "avoid this or die in one hit", will also favor armor.

Saurfang still gains blood power regardless of whether you avoid his hits or not.

[Banan]

Get the trinket from frost emblems,228 stamina

[Deleted]

For ICC stam trinkets are gawds. Armor trinkets are more situational. Don't bother with avoidance trinkets for raiding.

For heroics, you can use any trinkets that make you feel sexy.

id say that armor is the most important thing in icc, especially on fights like putricide festergut blood queen even lk.

[Gallahadd]

At the moment I'm using Black Heart and Glyph of Indomitability, and I've gotta say it works pretty well in ICC10. According to RAWR, if you're only raiding 10man then general best set up is Unidentifiable Organ (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50341) and The Black Heart are the best pair of trinkets to roll with. Not really sure HOW black heart is so good, but I think it's yet another case of RAWR's hardon for bonus armor, and the 7k on black hearts proc (which seems to be up a fair amount) makes for it being so high in the ranking.

[Dharmabhum]

I agree with most of the posters here. Black Heart is an ok trinket to hold onto for the stamina and decent armor proc, but definitely buy Glyph for ICC. Armor plays a big role on a lot of those fights, and stacking stamina trinkets is good for magic fights more so than physical fights. I bought the Key and use it, but the Black Heart is similar and works in much the same way. My off trinket is almost always the Glyph though, switching out the Black Heart for those magic-damage fights like Sindragosa (never had any luck with Juggernaut's).

[luthe]

Glyph of Indomitability is a very good trinket atm. Bonus armor is extremely useful because of the chill of the throne debuff (you avoid less -> you get more hits -> armor mitigates more dmg). Personally on my warrior I'm using it now with the Corroded Skeleton Key. Those who think armor isn't a good stat, need to do some maths. Also the 6.5% extra dodge from the Glyph of Indomitability's use effect isn't bad either, if you use it on cooldown it has 16.66% uptime, or it can easily save your ass, if you don't spam it on cooldown, but use it when it's really needed. Or for example on Saurfang since you tank 50% of the time, if you use it properly, you'll have the effect up 33.33% of your tanking time.

The following numbers are the stats of my warrior (the same goes for a paladin tank) unbuffed :
- with Glyph of Indomitability 29791 armor = 66.17% physical dmg taken reduction. So a hit will hit you for 33.83% of the initial dmg.
- with any other non-armor trinket 27799 armor = 64.77% physical dmg taken reduction. So a hit will hit you for 35.23% of the initial dmg.
Some (not to bright) players would say it's a 1.4% difference (35.23 - 33.83), and therefore they say everyone that armor is a bad stat. BUT actually it's not true, it's a 4% difference! Let's say a raw hit would hit you 100,000 dmg. Without the extra armor trinket you'd get 35230 dmg, with with extra armor you'd get 33830 dmg. 33830 is 96% of 35230 => you get 4% less dmg with Glyph of Indomitability.
Note that these numbers depend on your armor rating, with my current stats, it's 4%, if you have more/less armor, it can be ~3.5%-4.5%, I also didn't calculate in raid buffs (armor totem, mark of the wild, indestructible potion), which make this even stronger before you hit the 75% armor cap, which you probably won't hit.

Ofc armor isn't a good stat for the fights where you get a lot of magic dmg, since it only reduces physical, but dodge/parry does the same. That's why many endgame tanks aim for high armor these days.

However about the dodge trinkets, the chill of the throne has NOTHING to do with it being good or bad. The only case it's bad because of that, is if you have less then 20% dodge outside ICC, in which case you shouldn't even think about tanking there... The debuff gives you -20% dodge, that doesn't mean dodge is bad, or it's useless... you need avoidance, and in the matter of fact that debuff makes dodge even more valuable then parry : you'll have more parry then dodge probably anyway, so diminishing returns will make parry even worse. (On a sidenote dodge is better then parry even outside ICC, this mechanics just makes it even more better).

Also the question "which trinket is better?" can't really be answered. It all depends on the boss you're tanking. For example on Saurfang you want to maximize your avoidance (dodge/parry) even if you lose some HP/mitigation/aggro.

I hope it helped.

While yoru armor calculations are right, your dodge assumptions are wrong.

It takes your dodge chance, if you have 32% raid buffed, you'll have 12% CotT debuffed. But that has nothign to do with DR, DR has to do with the dodge you gain from Dodge Rating, Defense Rating, and Agility, but has nothing to do with the actual amount of dodge you have (Obviously the two are related, but taking 20% off the top does not effect the Diminishing Return whatsoever), regardless, Dodge is still a better avoidance stat point for point unless you're above 1.88%dodge:1%parry (you have to subtract base, and talented, dodge and parry for that calculation) example:

I have 28.3% dodge, and 20.6% parry, if i subtract base dodge and parry (and talents!) i'm at 18.3% dodge, and 10.6% parry, which puts me at a ratio of 1.72%dodge:1%parry, meaning dodge is still a better avoidance stat for me.