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  1. #81

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Of all the bosses they'd nerf next, I don't think anybody was expecting Marrowgar. Aren't there 10 bosses people are having more trouble with?

  2. #82

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Why nerfin marrowgar... this is supposed to be the hardest raid in this expac maive is not heroic mode but still...i am sure next nerf comin is deathwisper adds take 5-10 seconds more to spawn in 10 man mode -.-
    sunshine avatar is so awesome *w*!.... <3
    http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7494/chopperoo.jpg
    (Sig too large)

  3. #83

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by wooshiewoo
    As i level my alt, every Paladin tank is top of the dps. Easily out dpsing all dpsers.

    I find it hilarious for Blizzard to think that tank damage is too low. That's the whole idea of a tank - TO HAVE LOW DAMAGE. Lower dps even more but increase threat modifiers is my suggestion.
    I think you are missing their point. It doesn't scale so at top end raiding their DPS isn't scaling like others. It has nothing to do with leveling
    "Peace is a lie"

  4. #84

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    As far as the Nvidia driver problem. I always download Rivatuner from guru3d.com . It alows you to set the fan speed at startup.
    I just set the fan speed to locked at 75%(default is 30% at 0% load - up to 100% if needed. Apparently the new drivers forgot that part). Mostly did this because of overheating problems with crysis. Careful with Rivatuner tho, it has a lot of overclocking stuff that can mess your card up if you don't know what your doing.(i don't mess with overclocking features at all) Running the latest drivers for windows7 64bit Gefoce260GTX and my frame rate is just fine. Would be easier to just use the old drivers tho.
    Intel Core i5 2500 quad core
    8gb ddr3 ram
    ASUS SABERTOOTH SLI motherboard
    Geforce 580gtx
    Corsiar Force3 120gig SSD (boot drive + WoW install)
    WD 400gb hdd

  5. #85

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Proppsie
    any1 else have lowfps(30fps in 25man) problems with ATI HD 5970 cards?

    or is it cuz i have settings on max?
    Only you. I run everything on max with 40+ FPS with a 5870.
    That being said, you may have enabled Vsync, so you're locked to a fraciton of your monitors refresh rate.

  6. #86

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Yes, prot paladin's AoE threat maybe the highest one, but GC forgets that it needs to be built up. You can't pull 8 mobs and have a massive amount of threat right away (as opposed to DK's with BB and D&D, warrior's with TC and SW, druid's swipe, including AoE taunt for druids and warriors). Consecration starts to tick only in and every 2 seconds -- that's more than enough for a mob to aggro on a warlock doing seeds, leave the consecration area and lose all threat. Of course, if it's just 1 mob, you can taunt. But what if it's 3 or 4 mobs and they all go after different targets? Righteous Defense only hits 3 mobs and only if they attack the same target. Prot paladin is the only tanking class that can't do zerg-threat and doesn't have an AoE-taunt.

    If they tune down AoE threat, then they should give paladins a right-away-AoE-threat ability. Because it's getting ridiculously harder to tank 5-man instances than ICC -- mobs die before you have a chance to use even half of your abilities. If they make Consecration to have a first tick the moment you use it and then tick every 3 sec (up from 2 sec) -- I'm all for it.

    And yes, druids need to have more buttons to push. Because right now a pally tank has to press 7-8 buttons (excluding taunts) to build up that oh-so-high AoE threat and bear tank just needs to press 1.

  7. #87

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivermark
    Yes, prot paladin's AoE threat maybe the highest one, but GC forgets that it needs to be built up. You can't pull 8 mobs and have a massive amount of threat right away (as opposed to DK's with BB and D&D, warrior's with TC and SW, druid's swipe, including AoE taunt for druids and warriors). Consecration starts to tick only in and every 2 seconds -- that's more than enough for a mob to aggro on a warlock doing seeds, leave the consecration area and lose all threat. Of course, if it's just 1 mob, you can taunt. But what if it's 3 or 4 mobs and they all go after different targets? Righteous Defense only hits 3 mobs and only if they attack the same target. Prot paladin is the only tanking class that can't do zerg-threat and doesn't have an AoE-taunt.

    If they tune down AoE threat, then they should give paladins a right-away-AoE-threat ability. Because it's getting ridiculously harder to tank 5-man instances than ICC -- mobs die before you have a chance to use even half of your abilities. If they make Consecration to have a first tick the moment you use it and then tick every 3 sec (up from 2 sec) -- I'm all for it.

    And yes, druids need to have more buttons to push. Because right now a pally tank has to press 7-8 buttons (excluding taunts) to build up that oh-so-high AoE threat and bear tank just needs to press 1.
    Glyphed hammer isn't enough AoE threat for you? Maybe Avenger's shield? The reflective damage from Holy Shield isn't enough? Paladins are in no way in a bad place for AoE threat. If you're having trouble holding or getting aggro as a Pally, AoE or otherwise, you're bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Zeromus
    One time a ret pally crit me so hard that my character exploded and killed all my alts

  8. #88

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    My question is, if they don't want everything to be AE'd, then why are the mobs in say H HoR un-sheepable? Rather hard to not AE tank everything when they can only be CC'd by a couple classes that may or may not be in group at the time.

    Their design philosophy for the Frozen Halls 5-man instances seems to contradict their current statements.


  9. #89

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Just increase threat stances *frost presence, defensive stance, bear form, righteous fury* based on strength/attack level without increasing the actual damage output

    Example: *Defensive Stance threat is increased by % of your AP/Str* instead of just a set amount. I guess I'm just not a big fan of only having certain attacks have high threat values (referring to Icy Touch change)

    I think it's a problem with Tank gear not scaling as well as DPS gear does. I don't mind seeing some of my fellow DPS pulling 10,000-13,000 TPS (threat per second :P ) but its just a bummer how tanks have to rely on Tricks or Misdirection on a good amount of situations

    Ps, dont buff AE threat too much, I don't think all tanks actually WANT to be a /swipe/maul tank


  10. #90

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but those having issues with the nVidia cards can use the EVGA Precision tool to manually adjust fan speed. You won't have to revert to an older version of the drivers and go through all that hassle.

  11. #91
    Herald of the Titans ElAmigo's Avatar
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    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by SPF18
    Warriors are the whiniest people I have ever met in my life.

    I tank with a Warrior friend, who pulls awesome threat. It's a L2P issue, but they don't want to, so they'll whine until they can just spam devastate without anything else.
    yeah and im pretty suer they didnt say that they were going to buff warriors due to this. what they aer going to do is nerf the rest of the tanks so they can be on par to warriors and also have to actually DO SOMETHING in order to maintain aoe aggro
    "Didn't we have some fun...though? Remember when the platform was sliding into the fire pit and I said 'Goodbye' and you were like 'No way' and then I was all 'We pretended we were going to murder you'......that was great"

  12. #92

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    People seem to not understand the tank scaling problem. It's not that tanks don't do enough DPS, per se, it's that the mechanic is designed for them to do a certain multiplier less than a DPS, but they're getting closer and closer to falling short of that multiplier. I'm going to pull some numbers out of my ass to demonstrate. These are not the real numbers, but they demonstrate the real point:

    Let's say that we have a Rogue DPS and a Warrior tank. When all is said and done, with TPS reduction and aggro shedding abilities, the Rogue does approximately 65% of his DPS as TPS. That is, for every 1K of damage he does, he gets 650 threat. The Warrior, between high threat abilities and TPS enhancement does 175% of his DPS as threat. So for every 1K of damage he gets 1750 threat. We're all in Naxx. The Rogue does 3K DPS and the Warrior does 1.5K DPS. Rogue is doing 1950 TPS and Warrior is doing 2625 TPS. The tank is comfortably ahead on threat, so no problem.

    Now a year later we're in all 251-277 ilvl gear. Most of the Rogue's upgrades have been tailored to increasing his DPS a lot, and his survivability a bit. Most of the tank's upgrades have been focused on upping his survivability a lot, and his DPS a bit. Now the Rogue is doing 10K DPS and the Warrior 3.5K DPS. Since the TPS ratios haven't changed, the Rogue is now doing 6500 TPS, but the Warrior is only doing 6126 TPS. Now the warrior is having threat problems. They're even worse if the Rogue out gears the Warrior for some reason. They might be masked if the Rogue uses Tricks a lot, and masked even more if there's more than one Rogue/Hunter using MD/Tricks, but the margins remain a lot thinner than they were in Naxx.

    I don't think the real numbers are quite this cut and dry, but this describes the basics of the problem. Simply upping the tanks threat coefficient would solve the problem in the short term (Tanks now do 200% of DPS as TPS, tank now does 7K TPS on his 3.5K DPS and is winning on threat again), but it really just masks the real problem. Eventually, because of the way gear scales, the DPS will catch up again, and Blizz will have to apply another "fix".

    A person above me recommends increasing the the threat coefficient based on Str, but that kinda screws Druids, and is eventually still going to fall behind. Strength on tank gear still doesn't scale with all the DPS increasers on DPS gear. A more perfect solution might be a threat modifier that scales with the abilities tanks look for. Either Armor or Stamina would probably be best. Just stick a talent in the various tank trees that does something like "Total threat is increased by x% for every y points in [Stamina, Armor, dodge, Whatever works]." This solution has problems too, but I think it'll scale for a good long time before it becomes a problem

  13. #93

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by DrgnDancer
    People seem to not understand the tank scaling problem. It's not that tanks don't do enough DPS, per se, it's that the mechanic is designed for them to do a certain multiplier less than a DPS, but they're getting closer and closer to falling short of that multiplier. I'm going to pull some numbers out of my ass to demonstrate. These are not the real numbers, but they demonstrate the real point:

    Let's say that we have a Rogue DPS and a Warrior tank. When all is said and done, with TPS reduction and aggro shedding abilities, the Rogue does approximately 65% of his DPS as TPS. That is, for every 1K of damage he does, he gets 650 threat. The Warrior, between high threat abilities and TPS enhancement does 175% of his DPS as threat. So for every 1K of damage he gets 1750 threat. We're all in Naxx. The Rogue does 3K DPS and the Warrior does 1.5K DPS. Rogue is doing 1950 TPS and Warrior is doing 2625 TPS. The tank is comfortably ahead on threat, so no problem.

    Now a year later we're in all 251-277 ilvl gear. Most of the Rogue's upgrades have been tailored to increasing his DPS a lot, and his survivability a bit. Most of the tank's upgrades have been focused on upping his survivability a lot, and his DPS a bit. Now the Rogue is doing 10K DPS and the Warrior 3.5K DPS. Since the TPS ratios haven't changed, the Rogue is now doing 6500 TPS, but the Warrior is only doing 6126 TPS. Now the warrior is having threat problems. They're even worse if the Rogue out gears the Warrior for some reason. They might be masked if the Rogue uses Tricks a lot, and masked even more if there's more than one Rogue/Hunter using MD/Tricks, but the margins remain a lot thinner than they were in Naxx.

    I don't think the real numbers are quite this cut and dry, but this describes the basics of the problem. Simply upping the tanks threat coefficient would solve the problem in the short term (Tanks now do 200% of DPS as TPS, tank now does 7K TPS on his 3.5K DPS and is winning on threat again), but it really just masks the real problem. Eventually, because of the way gear scales, the DPS will catch up again, and Blizz will have to apply another "fix".

    A person above me recommends increasing the the threat coefficient based on Str, but that kinda screws Druids, and is eventually still going to fall behind. Strength on tank gear still doesn't scale with all the DPS increasers on DPS gear. A more perfect solution might be a threat modifier that scales with the abilities tanks look for. Either Armor or Stamina would probably be best. Just stick a talent in the various tank trees that does something like "Total threat is increased by x% for every y points in [Stamina, Armor, dodge, Whatever works]." This solution has problems too, but I think it'll scale for a good long time before it becomes a problem
    Providing the theory behind all of this is true: very well explained.

    Doomhammer EU

  14. #94
    Herald of the Titans kailtas's Avatar
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    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    That Nvidia problem anounce might have saved my ass!

    Borrowing a 180$ card
    Your greed, your foolishness has brought you to this end.

    - Prince Malchezaar

  15. #95

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    <a href="http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=24590">Lord Marrowgar Must Die!</a>

    Stop whining about Marrowgar nerf.

  16. #96

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by d00d3r1n0
    I don't mind nerfs like these. Blizz is just trying to make end-game content available to all types of users. I understand the need for advanced players to have more challenging content, but isn't that why multiple options are available? We have normal 10 and 25 man encounters as well as Heroic versions of the same. I mean, my guild is never going to be able to do either heroic, but I am ok with this because we can make it through the normal versions and at least we get to experience the content and encounters and have the chance to get some decent gear, not as good as the gear available in heroic, but that is as it should be.
    It's not that it was nerfed, we were expecting that, it's just the choice of boss. As the first boss in ICC I think a lot of people just assumed that everyone else was killing it just as easily as they were and it didn't need nerfing :S

    Doomhammer EU

  17. #97

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Selinde
    <a href="http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=24590">Lord Marrowgar Must Die!</a>

    Stop whining about Marrowgar nerf.
    just because theres a weekly a retard simple boss before it was nerfed that means it should be dumbed down even more? lolk

  18. #98

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by amul
    Glyphed hammer isn't enough AoE threat for you? Maybe Avenger's shield? The reflective damage from Holy Shield isn't enough? Paladins are in no way in a bad place for AoE threat. If you're having trouble holding or getting aggro as a Pally, AoE or otherwise, you're bad.
    I think your English is bad. Read what I said again, pls. With dictionary.
    Glyphed hammer is 4 targets, AS only 3 targets. And you can't choose which mobs they hit. What if there are 8 mobs? You need to block a mob's attack for HS to proc. If they already attack you for you to block (which has only 25-30% chance, btw), then they are already on you and your aggro builds up. I'm talking about situations where mobs haven't even had a chance to get to you and hit you and already being aggroed by some ranged dps.

  19. #99

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Quesly
    just because theres a weekly a retard simple boss before it was nerfed that means it should be dumbed down even more? lolk
    Content gets nerfed after some time it's out. That's how it works. It's the FIRST boss. Big deal.
    Sorry if your "already-fucking-easy" boss became "ridiculously-easy-weekly raid quest" boss. This really must take away all the challenge in the entire raid instance for you.

    This only allows more people to get the quest done.

  20. #100

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Because Lord Marrowgar has been nerfed a little bit, this means that the game itself as we know it, has been completely obliterated.

    I'm preparing the fruit punch, anyone want some?
    Quote Originally Posted by Respen
    I was very disappointed in the screenshots. I usually base my entire gaming experience around ground textures and so far it seems like Cata will be totally unplayable.

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