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  1. #21

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerox
    Ehm ... fail about the nvidia driver note?

    Working much beter then previous drivers with WOW .. sharper and more fps.
    And also with the new amazing feature of melting your graphics card into a goo of plastic.

    Go ahead and read the forumlinks written in the "OP". People have had their card burn out because the drivercontrol of the fan was malfunctioning.
    There is a VERY good reason that Nvidia completely removed those drivers from their website. It's not because you could cut yourself on the sharp images.

    In short: Don't use those drivers, and if you already installed them - rollback to older versions like it's adviced by Blizzard and Nvidia.

  2. #22

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    Recent In-Game Fixes - March 2010 - 3/4
    Some of these changes have been around for a while apparently, during the latest PTR update I saw Blood Nova getting a 16 sec cooldown and the duration of Emerald Vigor was increased from 35 to 40 seconds. Instability's duration has been reduced from 8 to 5 seconds.
    It remind me the "Wanna buy some try times on Algalon ?".. Current raid shouldn't be open in rush period to "buy" tries on each last boss of ICC, especially when the PTR isn't a content patch or at least in Heroic Mode.

  3. #23
    Deleted

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Marrowgar was the boss who was a block for bad bad pugs from easy loot of Lady, gunship and saurfang

    Now the last barrier for even "Hey where i lost my last brain piece" guys from getting good loot is dead)

  4. #24

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasok
    Marrowgar was the boss who was a block for bad bad pugs from easy loot of Lady, gunship and saurfang

    Now the last barrier for even "Hey where i lost my last brain piece" guys from getting good loot is dead)
    The Marrowgar change is disheartening (and I'm a tank)... It was part of the fun being able to time your taunt and get things back under control. And it really wasn't even all that hard :/

  5. #25

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Is it possible if anyone could provide me with a download link for Vista 64 bits? :P Seems I only can get the 32 bits download link but not 64 bits, and yes - im 100 % sure I have 64 bits. Going to try google now for a bit ...
    But send me a message and you will make my day slightly better because I am tired that my fan is sounding more than a airport.

    Edit: Just got it too work but thanks Boub for the links

  6. #26

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by lanceb
    well you should either lower the paladins ae threat or increase the warriors ae threat cause as it is atm when im tanking in icc on my warr and the other tank is a paladin and we have fairly the same gear, no matter what i do, i cant reach up to the same ammount of threat the paladin throws out, im hammering my buttons but still im miles away in threat like third on the list and its bin like this for a long time, no matter what i do i cant throw out the same ammount of threat to keep up, and iv bin tanking long before horde even go these bubbleclasses so i know what im doing, and still u say the warriors threat is as it should be?? even the dk's is passing us in threat output
    You should read the whole post untill you understand what they are saying.

    I like how they think about tanking and getting CC back etc. AoEing heroics and raid trash is fun for the first times but after that it's really boring. Liked how you had to CC SSC and TK trash much more. You die if you tank 3 of those mobs so you have to CC 1 or 2.
    In ICC if we pull 3 groups in the first room we actually survive without any CC. That ain't right ;p.

  7. #27

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by lanceb
    well you should either lower the paladins ae threat or increase the warriors ae threat cause as it is atm when im tanking in icc on my warr and the other tank is a paladin and we have fairly the same gear, no matter what i do, i cant reach up to the same ammount of threat the paladin throws out, im hammering my buttons but still im miles away in threat like third on the list and its bin like this for a long time, no matter what i do i cant throw out the same ammount of threat to keep up, and iv bin tanking long before horde even go these bubbleclasses so i know what im doing, and still u say the warriors threat is as it should be?? even the dk's is passing us in threat output
    Yeah just nerf the hell out of paladin tanks go on... First Threat Nerf - Than stam nerf like hell - now still warriors whining about ae tanking of paladins nerf it as well and let us just delete our t10 tankadins.. or just let all of them be ret - half of the best paladin tanks ive known gone ret lately anyways...

  8. #28

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Demran
    Yeah just nerf the hell out of paladin tanks go on... First Threat Nerf - Than stam nerf like hell - now still warriors whining about ae tanking of paladins nerf it as well and let us just delete our t10 tankadins.. or just let all of them be ret - half of the best paladin tanks ive known gone ret lately anyways...
    You are still among the list of favorite tank class,
    Many people prefer a war and pala above anything else. (DK Druid)

  9. #29

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    The sindragosa thing i have known since last week. Was surprised when i saw that the stacking debuff only lasted 4 seconds instead of the old 8 seconds

  10. #30

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    I thought Marrowgar was already easy enough.

  11. #31

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Originally Posted by Bornakk (Blue Tracker)

    3) Damage and therefore threat generation aren't scaling well at very high levels of gear. <-- this is the big one.
    Ouch... so first they "capped" damage from well-geared paladins/warriors by adding diminishing returns to your main damage ability (strike with shield) and now they are surprised that damage / threat generation aren't scaling well at high level of geat? Something is wrong here... -.-

  12. #32

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    yeah why do they do this to marrowgar, he has to whirl and cleave down the raid but oh.. well hes freeloot even more, even heroic :-\
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    You're full of shit honey.

  13. #33

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    What I really dont understand about blizzard is this:

    They change Misdirect so that it lasts for more then 3 shots and actually work like advertised. Then later they say that they wont tanks to be dependant on misdirect/tricks for single target threat; which they really dont, but hunters/rogues use them so that dps doesnt have the 3 sunders wait period (ooh the good old days).

    Once any tank worth their salt has a boss on them they should never lose them to anyone; I've seen tanks go as high as 10k tps, no dps class currently in game that can match that and not have a dependable reusable aggro dump.

  14. #34
    The Patient
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    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Soon, we Protection Paladins will get yet another ball-kick like:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Paladin
    # Spells
    * Holy Wrath - Cooldown increased from 1 minute to 20 minutes, causes Forberance.
    * Righteous Fury - Now increases threat generated trough Holy spells by 60%.
    * Concecration - Cooldown increased to 16 sec, up from 8 sec.
    * Hammer of the Righteous - This ability now only hits one target.
    * Argent Defender - Now creates a shield on you if you drop below 35% hp that absorbs 5000 damage. Old effect removed.

    # Glyphs
    Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous - Now increases the amount of targets that your Hammer of the Righteous hits by 2.
    ... or something.

    *goes and read some EJ posts about Retribution*
    -.-

  15. #35

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Valanna
    first.
    goodbye

  16. #36

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    So again its confirmed by blue that paladins are too strong and easy to play and yet all the paladin players will deny it...
    Who needs gameplay when you have ACHIEVEMENTS? Don't worry about beating levels, finding ways to kill enemies, or beating the final boss... there are none. Focus solely on your ultimate destiny... doing random tasks that have nothing to do with anything. Metagame yourself with ease! Self-satisfaction never felt so... artificial!

  17. #37

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    The dreamwalker change was nice this week as my comp isnt the greatest and i hit lag when going in portals and those 5 extra seconds make it much less pray i hit something before my last 3 seconds fall off and i cant yet see the clouds. The deathbringer change should have only been heroic as the damage is a joke on normaly but on hard mode 2 mark ticks and a blood boil tick in less than 1 sec would kill a clothie.

  18. #38

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by blupp
    So again its confirmed by blue that paladins are too strong and easy to play and yet all the paladin players will deny it...
    Im a prot paladin, and i agree it is really easy. I can wank while i raid!

  19. #39

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Wow, already with the nerfs? On top of the 5% buff? Marrowgar nerf? Haven't like 80-90% of guilds downed him anyway?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  20. #40

    Re: 03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by KandyCane
    Oh really? A Paladin is doing more AoE threat than a Warrior on a batch of Undead mobs?

    Paladin AoE threat is built-up over the duration of Consecration outside of Icecrown, so Warriors are a lot better at burst threat for such situations as the whelps on Onyxia. Holy Wrath is the Paladin burst threat, but it only works on Undead.


    The change to Marrowgar is rather sad, to be honest. I thought they made him taunt-able because of the threat-reset. Now, I haven't done him on heroic mode, but I guess that this change is because a person with DoTs on the boss could be the unlucky target of the last spin and get smacked immediately after it ended.

    Deathbringer Saurfang fix is awesome, RNG is a bitch. Rotface nerf is rather sad, but I suppose it's needed for newer guilds(though the buff should help with that), but I guess it's less cleansing I need to do... oh, and once again, could have something to do with the heroic mode.
    Spoken like someone who has never tried to tank the onyxia whelps as a warrior. The onyxia whelps spawn in a long line over 5-10 seconds. This is a nightmare for a warrior tank because once you use thunderclap to aggro the first bunch the next bunch all fly right past you while it is still on cooldown. This means you have to use your shockwave for initial aggro on some before using your thunderclap (when it comes off of cooldown) for initial aggro on the last few. The problem this creates is that you have wildly variable threat on the whelps. Some will have only gotten hit by a single thunderclap and will get overaggrod again almost immediately when the DPS start to AoE. Combined with the way warrior threat for the most part just doesn't scale up to large numbers of adds and you have issues. A paladin or DK on the other hand can just put down consecration or DnD at the cave entrance and all the mobs aggro on him/her the moment they leave the cave.

    A warrior certainly can tank onyxia whelps but your post betrays a severe lack of understanding of how warrior tanking mechanics work in practice. To an uneducated non-warrior you might easily look at shockwave and think "omg, warrior can just shockwave all the whelps and have great burst threat on them all" but its small, directional AoE combined with the encounter mechanics makes that impossible.

    I think however that reflected damage (holy shield, thorns, retribution aura, fire shield, damage shield) are in many way the culprits on AoE tanking balance. They turn small threat advantages into large ones. If the paladin gets initial aggro then he gets extra threat from all that reflected damage while also denying the warrior the same threat. If as a warrior you get even a small headstart on threat this is enough to keep the mobs hitting you quite consistently. In general reflected damage is a magnifying effect on tank AoE threat since it makes small differences much more pronounced. The threat you get from reflection should be removed and added into each classes baseline abilities (i.e. increase thunderclap damage by an amount equal to two blocks worth of reflected damage and remove damage shield as a talent). Take a situation now where a paladin generates 1 more threat than the warrior on an AoE pull from abilities. This makes all the mobs hit him, proccing retribution aura, holy shield, fire shield and thorns every time they hit him. His 1 threat advantage is now a 1k TPS advantage because of all the reflected damage. Similarly if the warrior has a 1 threat advantage a similar thing happens, all the reflected damage turns that tiny advantage into a huge one.

    A tank with all those reflected shields up does a huge amount of extra damage and threat to the point that once a mob is hitting you, no matter what class you are, it is almost impossible to get overaggrod by another tanks AoE threat. Reflected damage works fine as a tank DPS mechanic, as a tank TPS mechanic however it has a lot of negative impact on AoE tanking.

    I do also think however that a lot of warriors are overstating how hard warriors have it on AoE threat, in Icecrown I notice no huge difference as a warrior tanking with a paladin vs a DK tanking with a paladin. Trying to solo tank it as a warrior however is vastly easier than solo tanking it as a DK (on rep farm runs for example). As a DK you cast death and decay, ps, it, pestillence and 3 seconds later your diseases start ticking on the mobs you pestillenced. That means for the first 6 seconds of each pull the only AoE threat you have is Death and Decay. It is very easy to get overaggrod in this time and almost impossible to recover from as a DK. As a warrior you have great opening burst threat on each pull and, lets be honest, most of the pulls in ICC are 4-6 mobs which is still small enough groups that warrior AoE threat continues to work pretty well.

    Going further to the broader idea of needing CC on trash packs the main problem is that CC as a whole interacts really badly with all tanks AoE threat and with offspecs as they are it is never going to be viable to return to CC in raid instances anyway. On any trash where CC was going to be needed it will just be easier to have one or two DPS spec to tank and use 4 or 5 tanks all spamming AoE threat as opposed to 2 or 3 plus CC. On my guilds 25 man runs for example we usually have 3 tanks and another 3 or 4 people who could go tank with their offspec easily. Why would we ever bother with the hassle of CC where just using an extra 2 or 3 or 4 tanks is just as easy and probably faster overall. The only way to prevent this is to have specific mechanics that require CC but if you have to do that then the CC is being used because of the mechanic that forces you to CC as opposed to tanks just not being able to take the incoming damage.

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