03/04 In-Game Fixes, Blue posts

[Daeren]

any1 else have lowfps(30fps in 25man) problems with ATI HD 5970 cards?

or is it cuz i have settings on max?

Only you. I run everything on max with 40+ FPS with a 5870.
That being said, you may have enabled Vsync, so you're locked to a fraciton of your monitors refresh rate.

[Ottius]

Yes, prot paladin's AoE threat maybe the highest one, but GC forgets that it needs to be built up. You can't pull 8 mobs and have a massive amount of threat right away (as opposed to DK's with BB and D&D, warrior's with TC and SW, druid's swipe, including AoE taunt for druids and warriors). Consecration starts to tick only in and every 2 seconds -- that's more than enough for a mob to aggro on a warlock doing seeds, leave the consecration area and lose all threat. Of course, if it's just 1 mob, you can taunt. But what if it's 3 or 4 mobs and they all go after different targets? Righteous Defense only hits 3 mobs and only if they attack the same target. Prot paladin is the only tanking class that can't do zerg-threat and doesn't have an AoE-taunt.

If they tune down AoE threat, then they should give paladins a right-away-AoE-threat ability. Because it's getting ridiculously harder to tank 5-man instances than ICC -- mobs die before you have a chance to use even half of your abilities. If they make Consecration to have a first tick the moment you use it and then tick every 3 sec (up from 2 sec) -- I'm all for it.

And yes, druids need to have more buttons to push. Because right now a pally tank has to press 7-8 buttons (excluding taunts) to build up that oh-so-high AoE threat and bear tank just needs to press 1.

[amul]

Yes, prot paladin's AoE threat maybe the highest one, but GC forgets that it needs to be built up. You can't pull 8 mobs and have a massive amount of threat right away (as opposed to DK's with BB and D&D, warrior's with TC and SW, druid's swipe, including AoE taunt for druids and warriors). Consecration starts to tick only in and every 2 seconds -- that's more than enough for a mob to aggro on a warlock doing seeds, leave the consecration area and lose all threat. Of course, if it's just 1 mob, you can taunt. But what if it's 3 or 4 mobs and they all go after different targets? Righteous Defense only hits 3 mobs and only if they attack the same target. Prot paladin is the only tanking class that can't do zerg-threat and doesn't have an AoE-taunt.

If they tune down AoE threat, then they should give paladins a right-away-AoE-threat ability. Because it's getting ridiculously harder to tank 5-man instances than ICC -- mobs die before you have a chance to use even half of your abilities. If they make Consecration to have a first tick the moment you use it and then tick every 3 sec (up from 2 sec) -- I'm all for it.

And yes, druids need to have more buttons to push. Because right now a pally tank has to press 7-8 buttons (excluding taunts) to build up that oh-so-high AoE threat and bear tank just needs to press 1.

Glyphed hammer isn't enough AoE threat for you? Maybe Avenger's shield? The reflective damage from Holy Shield isn't enough? Paladins are in no way in a bad place for AoE threat. If you're having trouble holding or getting aggro as a Pally, AoE or otherwise, you're bad.

[Krovven]

My question is, if they don't want everything to be AE'd, then why are the mobs in say H HoR un-sheepable? Rather hard to not AE tank everything when they can only be CC'd by a couple classes that may or may not be in group at the time.

Their design philosophy for the Frozen Halls 5-man instances seems to contradict their current statements.

[parrademun]

Just increase threat stances *frost presence, defensive stance, bear form, righteous fury* based on strength/attack level without increasing the actual damage output

Example: *Defensive Stance threat is increased by % of your AP/Str* instead of just a set amount. I guess I'm just not a big fan of only having certain attacks have high threat values (referring to Icy Touch change)

I think it's a problem with Tank gear not scaling as well as DPS gear does. I don't mind seeing some of my fellow DPS pulling 10,000-13,000 TPS (threat per second :P ) but its just a bummer how tanks have to rely on Tricks or Misdirection on a good amount of situations

Ps, dont buff AE threat too much, I don't think all tanks actually WANT to be a /swipe/maul tank

[skyesfury]

I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but those having issues with the nVidia cards can use the EVGA Precision tool to manually adjust fan speed. You won't have to revert to an older version of the drivers and go through all that hassle.

[ElAmigo]

Warriors are the whiniest people I have ever met in my life.

I tank with a Warrior friend, who pulls awesome threat. It's a L2P issue, but they don't want to, so they'll whine until they can just spam devastate without anything else.

yeah and im pretty suer they didnt say that they were going to buff warriors due to this. what they aer going to do is nerf the rest of the tanks so they can be on par to warriors and also have to actually DO SOMETHING in order to maintain aoe aggro

[DrgnDancer]

People seem to not understand the tank scaling problem. It's not that tanks don't do enough DPS, per se, it's that the mechanic is designed for them to do a certain multiplier less than a DPS, but they're getting closer and closer to falling short of that multiplier. I'm going to pull some numbers out of my ass to demonstrate. These are not the real numbers, but they demonstrate the real point:

Let's say that we have a Rogue DPS and a Warrior tank. When all is said and done, with TPS reduction and aggro shedding abilities, the Rogue does approximately 65% of his DPS as TPS. That is, for every 1K of damage he does, he gets 650 threat. The Warrior, between high threat abilities and TPS enhancement does 175% of his DPS as threat. So for every 1K of damage he gets 1750 threat. We're all in Naxx. The Rogue does 3K DPS and the Warrior does 1.5K DPS. Rogue is doing 1950 TPS and Warrior is doing 2625 TPS. The tank is comfortably ahead on threat, so no problem.

Now a year later we're in all 251-277 ilvl gear. Most of the Rogue's upgrades have been tailored to increasing his DPS a lot, and his survivability a bit. Most of the tank's upgrades have been focused on upping his survivability a lot, and his DPS a bit. Now the Rogue is doing 10K DPS and the Warrior 3.5K DPS. Since the TPS ratios haven't changed, the Rogue is now doing 6500 TPS, but the Warrior is only doing 6126 TPS. Now the warrior is having threat problems. They're even worse if the Rogue out gears the Warrior for some reason. They might be masked if the Rogue uses Tricks a lot, and masked even more if there's more than one Rogue/Hunter using MD/Tricks, but the margins remain a lot thinner than they were in Naxx.

I don't think the real numbers are quite this cut and dry, but this describes the basics of the problem. Simply upping the tanks threat coefficient would solve the problem in the short term (Tanks now do 200% of DPS as TPS, tank now does 7K TPS on his 3.5K DPS and is winning on threat again), but it really just masks the real problem. Eventually, because of the way gear scales, the DPS will catch up again, and Blizz will have to apply another "fix".

A person above me recommends increasing the the threat coefficient based on Str, but that kinda screws Druids, and is eventually still going to fall behind. Strength on tank gear still doesn't scale with all the DPS increasers on DPS gear. A more perfect solution might be a threat modifier that scales with the abilities tanks look for. Either Armor or Stamina would probably be best. Just stick a talent in the various tank trees that does something like "Total threat is increased by x% for every y points in [Stamina, Armor, dodge, Whatever works]." This solution has problems too, but I think it'll scale for a good long time before it becomes a problem

[kailtas]

That Nvidia problem anounce might have saved my ass!

Borrowing a 180$ card

[Selinde]

<a href="http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=24590">Lord Marrowgar Must Die!</a>

Stop whining about Marrowgar nerf.

[Quesly]

<a href="http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=24590">Lord Marrowgar Must Die!</a>

Stop whining about Marrowgar nerf.

just because theres a weekly a retard simple boss before it was nerfed that means it should be dumbed down even more? lolk

[Ottius]

Glyphed hammer isn't enough AoE threat for you? Maybe Avenger's shield? The reflective damage from Holy Shield isn't enough? Paladins are in no way in a bad place for AoE threat. If you're having trouble holding or getting aggro as a Pally, AoE or otherwise, you're bad.

I think your English is bad. Read what I said again, pls. With dictionary.
Glyphed hammer is 4 targets, AS only 3 targets. And you can't choose which mobs they hit. What if there are 8 mobs? You need to block a mob's attack for HS to proc. If they already attack you for you to block (which has only 25-30% chance, btw), then they are already on you and your aggro builds up. I'm talking about situations where mobs haven't even had a chance to get to you and hit you and already being aggroed by some ranged dps.

[Selinde]

just because theres a weekly a retard simple boss before it was nerfed that means it should be dumbed down even more? lolk

Content gets nerfed after some time it's out. That's how it works. It's the FIRST boss. Big deal.
Sorry if your "already-fucking-easy" boss became "ridiculously-easy-weekly raid quest" boss. This really must take away all the challenge in the entire raid instance for you.

This only allows more people to get the quest done.

[Caradinist]

Because Lord Marrowgar has been nerfed a little bit, this means that the game itself as we know it, has been completely obliterated.

I'm preparing the fruit punch, anyone want some?

[mostlyharmless]

Whew, what a relief they nerfed Marrowgar, he was super tough. Took us hours to down him every week.

When will they nerf gunship? My guild's been stuck on gunship for months now.

[Myria]

there is just no way blizzard could come up with cc, these days are gone and there is no going back.

I've had this thought as well. Wrath killed CC hard, Blizz did that on purpose. If they think they can rez it they're nuts, people will scream such bloody murder it'd rend the heavens. At this point the best they can do is put in a pack or two and say "See, if you CCed these mobs it'd be easier!" and then watch as people steamroll over them.

It's too bad, really, but dumbing a game down is pretty much a one-way street, even more so when you gleefully lobotomize it. You'd have hopped they knew that when they decided to go the route they did with Wrath, but frankly I've seen little evidence that GC has a clue, let alone a plan.

[Markluzz]

Nerfed three encounters that really are to easy anyways (Rotface, Saurfang, Marrowgar) The only thing challenging with marrowgar left has now been removed and now is a pew pew, run out of fire, and kill adds in 3 seconds fight, really easy.

[Deleted]

Look, im a protection paladin raiding alot with a druid and a warrior tank with the same gear as I have, I dont have the threat 2 % on hands and I really never have threat problems in aoe packs thanks to my glyph with increased damage against undead etc and the bonus of fighting undead, obviously. But the the problem lies in fact that we paladins use our aoe abillitys for single target THREAT aswell as aoe packs.

That brings us to the conclusion that if you nerf our aoe threat you will nerf our single target threat.
Our aoe threat has always been quite above the average for THIS reason because we use the same abillitys, wich makes our single target threat slightly reduced than other tanks with the same gear. For quite long we have had extra bonus passive threat on righteous fury, but it has been reduced in previous patches to bring us along with other tanks and now you tell us that warriors threat needs to be higher? when we scale quite the same, druids being slightly above?

I feel it quite unnecessary. If you want to buff warriors threat, fine but no paladin threat nerf is needed.

Oh and like some people quoted before me "I can never bring my threat to the same level as my paladin tank teammate" Either you need to change your rotation or he is outgearing you.

[mostlyharmless]

I really hope you're joking, or being sarcastic

at this rate blizz should introduce a third mode of boss fights: EZ MODE! every fight would be a tank n spank. loot could be lower leveled, like i245 in icc10 or i258 in icc25. Cause man, these fights like deathwhisper and saurfang are too hard for casual players who aren't elitist snobs right? ;D

[santoslhalper]

I agree that the Marrowgar nerf was uncalled for. It wasn't a hard fight. I think it would have been better left the way it was.

But that being said, how much of a skillcheck was that aggro dump anyway? I doubt that was what specific mechanic would make the difference for anyone. So basically, who cares? It doesn't really seem to change anything.