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  1. #1

    Holy Spec Clarification...

    Ok, so my guild decided tonight that they wanted to swap our MT palladin from prot to holy since we've been consistently having to pug an extra healer and tanks seem more available.

    That being said, I'm now being swapped to holy because well it's just better at raid healing than disc in 10 mans.

    So, I've picked up pieces here and there about being holy and I've done a little research on some of the top performing guilds in the game and I think I've got a good setup:

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...a&cn=Rickytick

    My problem is I have a lot less experience as holy so I'm hoping for some quick tips and critiques to get me back up to par since we're doing Blood Queen and Putricide progression this weekend.

    What I've been doing is basically just renewing anyone who takes damage, keeping it on the tank at all times. *Although I was originally doing this, I decided to switch to flash heal spec because I believe it flows better with the class.

    Using PoM on the tank at all times.

    During aoe situations like early festergut and such I'm spamming CoH on every cooldown.

    However... This is where I get stuck, I find it hard to fit flash heals in here somewhere unless it's like 1 person who's getting nuked other than the tank. So I basically just use it anytime I get a proc of SoL but that's usually not enough to build the serendipity needed to make a PoH worth casting over renew and coh spam... So, any tips or advice is very much appreciated. *Now that I'm using primarily flash heal instead of renew building serendipity is a breeze and has been a lot easier to aoe heal with PoH!*

    Edit's marked with *!

  2. #2

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Flash heal isn't used a lot to be honest. In terms of healing done per cooldown, flash heal comes very very far behind pretty much all other spells you can cast. It also isn't very prone to save anyone anymore as it's about half the strength of the other healer's fast heals. You can redeem some of this situation by speccing heavily in favor of flash heal, but frankly - it's not worth it if you ask me. Priests make a lot better druid light's than paladin light's. And as such, we end up neglecting flash heal these days.

    Neglecting doesn't mean ignoring. If a person is taking heavy damage (and ICC is good at giving those situations), that damage is usually best left to the other healers. But that is not always possible. If you absolutely have to counter it, a flash heal is usually the tool you need. But - your single target priority spell usage is usually left as ProM > Renew > Flash Heal. No matter what you do, your single target healing output will be a bit lower than what ICC requires, so keeping people alive alone is... hard.

    Serenditity is hard to build up. Since we're not using flash heal a lot, the buff isn't built up fast either. That's how the holypriest plays at the moment. Having a triple serendipity stack makes wonders for burst healing, but getting it back will take a lot of time.

    I'd say you're playing it as designed at the moment.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  3. #3

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Basically holy is a raid healer, meaning you should never focus on tank healing unless there is no raid damage or the tank damage incoming demands an extra healer and you are assigned to this. As for healing as holy, your main arsenal of spells should be renew, POM, COH, POH and the occasional Flash heal. When the raid is taking constant damage or there is people that need to be healed, you should basically be doing the following:

    1. POM every CD, preferably off a tank
    2. Renew the raid
    3. COH every CD or when you see it can be best utalised
    4. Use your instant flash's if someone gets low
    5. Use POH if you know raid damage is incoming and you can land it straight after it comes, or if you need to heal the whole group.

    Personally i don't heal much, so take from it what you want, but most of it is pretty spot on

  4. #4

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    i think one of the problems is that holy often find themselves tank healing (or i do)...

    especially in 10 man, we usually run with 2 healers and often it's priest/shaman or priest/druid... since we dont have many holy paladins in my guild.

    I haven't specced empowered healing or divine fury, but run with the "standard" aoe healing holy build these days.

    i think we usually manage by me and my fellow healers, pushing it to the limit... it's often stressful and by no means a walkover to play a holy priest imo, but it also makes it somewhat more interesting to play. I more than often find Disc completely not coping in ICC, or maybe i just gotten to used to playing holy.

    I think you should try to use all your spells, rotations are pretty bad imo... i often find myself using COH whenever it's off cd though
    I often use fheal still, guess old habits die hard... but i'm doing fine in healing overall, just try to find a balance and poh can still kick ass.

  5. #5

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    IMO disc performs better in 10m. Both of you ll end up heal both tank and raid if the another healer isnt holy pally, and the holy priest will have huge problem keeping tank alive without being oom.

  6. #6

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Holy is not for tank healing. You become mana innefficient when doing it and you're not built for it! Sorry!
    Disc is the tank healing spec for priests. Its why we have the two trees, one for each job.

  7. #7

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    I find using holy better for the job when 2 healing.. it's not like you are only tank healing it's a shared effort, tbh i don't find disc that great for tank healing, maybe if you aren't doing anything else.

    I'm not saying holy is a tank healing build, but i often heal tanks anyway... go figure



  8. #8

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Neither priest spec is strong at tank healing, they fall behind both shamans and paladins, and no druid should ever solely tank heal. Your holy priest is mainly there to raid heal, and your disc priest is mainly there to PW:S and to a lesser degree raid heal. If your constantly bringing any priest spec to tank heal you either don't have any shamans or paladins or aren't utilizing your class makeup correctly.

  9. #9

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Neither priest spec is strong at tank healing, they fall behind both shamans and paladins, and no druid should ever solely tank heal. Your holy priest is mainly there to raid heal, and your disc priest is mainly there to PW:S and to a lesser degree raid heal. If your constantly bringing any priest spec to tank heal you either don't have any shamans or paladins or aren't utilizing your class makeup correctly.
    IMO disc performs better in 10m. Both of you ll end up heal both tank and raid if the another healer isnt holy pally, and the holy priest will have huge problem keeping tank alive without being oom.
    Reading is hard nowadays :\

  10. #10

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weena2
    Neither priest spec is strong at tank healing, they fall behind both shamans and paladins, and no druid should ever solely tank heal. Your holy priest is mainly there to raid heal, and your disc priest is mainly there to PW:S and to a lesser degree raid heal. If your constantly bringing any priest spec to tank heal you either don't have any shamans or paladins or aren't utilizing your class makeup correctly.
    Unless you are running more hardcore with optimal setups, you often run with what you got. I aint talking about "correct" setups...
    We can't just magically conjure a holy Paladin for tank healing


  11. #11

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    I think Disc is much better than holy in 10 man. Unless you run a very melee heavy setup CoH won't be very useful on most fights as people often have to spread and/or run around etc. The holy spec also enhances PoM, PoH and renew but that doesn't mean those tools suck in Disc spec. They are still very useful and on top of them you have shields and penance which is just awesome. Disc is also the best tank assist spec in the game and increases dps with Power Infusion.

    Tbh I don't understand why you are swapping. In 10 mans disc is basically better at everything compared to holy. The only place where holy really shines is 25 man raid healing.

  12. #12

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanouri
    Tbh I don't understand why you are swapping. In 10 mans disc is basically better at everything compared to holy. The only place where holy really shines is 25 man raid healing.
    that's your opinion...

    you can't really objectively say that disc is better than holy. I'm not saying anything about which is the "best" spec. They both have their weaknesses and advantages.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Auxis's Avatar
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    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Ummm... Hes talking about Paladin holy, not priest holy?
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  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Auxis's Avatar
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    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    wait nvm
    sry, i missread at the begiinning
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  15. #15

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanouri
    I think Disc is much better than holy in 10 man. Unless you run a very melee heavy setup CoH won't be very useful on most fights as people often have to spread and/or run around etc. The holy spec also enhances PoM, PoH and renew but that doesn't mean those tools suck in Disc spec. They are still very useful and on top of them you have shields and penance which is just awesome. Disc is also the best tank assist spec in the game and increases dps with Power Infusion.

    Tbh I don't understand why you are swapping. In 10 mans disc is basically better at everything compared to holy. The only place where holy really shines is 25 man raid healing.
    100% truth. I don't enjoy playing discipline and I'm gemmed for 100% haste which sucks for disc...however shields > in 10 man, especially on 2 healed fights. Also, a disc priest played properly can heal a tank just as well as a shaman or paladin.

  16. #16

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy

    Using PoM on the tank at all times.

    During aoe situations like early festergut and such I'm spamming CoH on every cooldown.
    I strongly feel COH and PrOM while good and overhyped to death should be used "often" rather then on CD. As a very basic example for the same fight festergut, you can save both CDs to prep for vile gas. The "Prom and COH always on CD" idea I suspect was really a result of overhype. Use it often as a general rule of thumb, we're not doing dps rotations here.

    Also disc really brings more to the raid table than holy in 10s and to a great extent even in 25s. It's just the way it is. You can call me bad or say "priests are fine L2P" but thats just ignoring the really glaring disparity that holy is really doing very badly right now, both in terms of meters and general viability. Given the choice theres really not much reason to bring a holy priest into the raid.

  17. #17

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    that's your opinion...

    you can't really objectively say that disc is better than holy. I'm not saying anything about which is the "best" spec. They both have their weaknesses and advantages.
    If you run with 3 heals in 10m, holy and disc are somewhat on par. But if you ever decide to2 heal it, unless you overgear the content or have a holy pally to focus 100% on raid healing, disc > holy simply because it can heal tank better without ever worrying about going oom. Disc's output is nowhere near level of holy pally, but more than meet the demand for 10m tank healing. Also, since there are only 10 ppl in the raid, mass shielding becomes much more efficient to cope with heavey AoE situations.

    All healers have their niche in 25m, but in 10m sadly some become better than the rest. With the lowered tank damage to make all 4 healers viable for tank healing, holy pallies become outright OP since they are designed to heal massive 25m boss hits, while holy priests are much harder to play effeciently as in 25m with their pure raid healing tool set.

    You can say im not speaking objectively, but Im sure many ppl in here will agree with me.

  18. #18

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    No, Disc is not the best single target healer. Without Beacon Paladin's are ahead by 20% or more.

    Anyway, as far as Holy, what Weena said is correct. You should be using a Renew spec with GS, PoH and CoH glyphs. I can't see your armory though, so... best 'standard' for ICC is this: 13/58 Renew spec. Minor's aren't required, but they are the best PVE minors. You want 900-1100 Spirit unbuffed, 20%-25% haste as a baseline (656-820, you may want more), 30% Holy crit fully buffed (around 23% unbuffed). You'll want 25-27k mana unbuffed as a healthy medium. You can get away with less than this if you have specific trinkets. If you're using dual Solace you can get away with 23-24k, if you're using Solace and Spark of Hope you can get away with as low as 22k. With ICC gear you'll wind up with more than that anyway.

    Either way:
    1: CoH on cooldown if you can hit 3, or more people with it.
    2: PoM on cooldown on someone you know will take damage, not always tanks.
    3: PoH on large spikes of AOE damage. If you know when the AOE will occur cast before it lands so that it will hit just after the AOE.
    4: Binding Heal any time you and another raid member are both taking damage that needs immediate healing.
    5: Flash Heal with Surge of Light if someone is very close to death.
    6: Renew anyone and everyone taking damage.

    When you need to heal tanks you will want to keep Renew on them, keep PoM on them on cooldown, then use Flash Heal or Binding Heal (if you're also taking damage) and if a spike occurs use a Greater Heal with Serendipity. Do not use the Serendipity charges asap because you will probably just over heal, save it for when it's actually needed.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy
    What I've been doing is basically just renewing anyone who takes damage, keeping it on the tank at all times.

    Using PoM on the tank at all times.

    During aoe situations like early festergut and such I'm spamming CoH on every cooldown.

    However... This is where I get stuck, I find it hard to fit flash heals in here somewhere unless it's like 1 person who's getting nuked other than the tank. So I basically just use it anytime I get a proc of SoL but that's usually not enough to build the serendipity needed to make a PoH worth casting over renew and coh spam... So, any tips or advice is very much appreciated.
    Simple answer, stack some decent haste. PoH is NOT supposed to be cast at 3x Serendipity only. NEVAH


    Quote Originally Posted by Waddy
    That being said, I'm now being swapped to holy because well it's just better at raid healing than disc in 10 mans.
    Disc is better than Holy in 10men..regardless if is an encounter with AoE or not.

  20. #20

    Re: Holy Spec Clarification...

    I guess I don't understand how like 5 people in this post can say that disc is the greater throughput spec in 10 mans, for example on blood queen... How is a disc going to compete with a holy priest? I guess I'm asking for some actual numbers and data aside from yo homey disc > holy yo.

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