Lich King 25 Heroic intentionally made to hard?

[Sillicur]

If they made a boss "difficult" to the point where a guild, who plays 7 days a week and raids 8 hours a day and contains players on a level far beyond what most consider "Good", nobody else would be able to do content.

Causal players spend maybe 3 to 4 hours a week raiding, big boy guilds can spend 30 to 40 a week. Your ignorance of this fact is the reason why "Just make the boss harder" doesn't work. Would you like them to design bosses with 12 phases, old school doomfire, fear, adds and instant death mechanics? Because if they do that, the hardcore guilds might need more then a week to down the boss but nobody else in the game will ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever beat them.



Did any of you Kill Muru pre-nerf? How about Archimonde? So why are you complaining about difficulty because if they change it for us, you won't be able to play this game.

I killed Muru before the big nerf to sunwell. I killed Archimonde pre-nerf. Let me tell you this dear sir.

The last boss of WOTLK should be around that level, where only the hardcore of the hardcore can kill it. The casual playerbase who plays 3-4 hours can still and should be able to kill lichking on normal. That i agree with fully. The hardmodes however are for the hardcores, they should wipe on them for days, the boss should be unkillable (lady vashji or ctun pre-nerf anyone?) to keep them busy.

So yeh, i would like a boss with 12 phases and oldschool doomfire so i can see the hardcore guilds QQ for once.

Actually i believe if the bosses were as hardcore as an end game raid in "hardmode" should be, Ensidia and paragon should still be wiping on 25man deathbringer.

Muru was harder than anything i have ever encountered in wow, as was vashji and kael pre nerfs. They should take that and just put it into hardmode so elitists wont QQ and casuals can still kill normal mode? Everyone wins. Nerfing hardmodes would be stupid. WHY? Cause they are suppose to be insanely hard.

[Gryphonfox]

People seem to have blinders on when it comes to Cataclysm's release date. Remember, Blizzard has other HUGE games being released this year...aka Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. Those titles might not mean much to a lot of WoW players, but many avid video gamers have been waiting YEARS for them. I know those titles have totally seperate developers and whatnot, but I think Activision is banking on a freaking banner year of Xmas sales for 2010 from Blizzard.

[vesseblah]

The hardmodes however are for the hardcores, they should wipe on them for days, the boss should be unkillable (lady vashji or ctun pre-nerf anyone?) to keep them busy.

Funny wording there. Vashj and C'thun 'pre-nerf' were indeed literally unkillable, not just a figure of speech. Bugs in the game prevented from doing those. Is that really what people want? Bugged piece of shit?

Muru was harder than anything i have ever encountered in wow, as was vashji and kael pre nerfs.

Curiously, the really hardcore guilds such as Ensidia in their blogs said first that Firefighter was the hardest boss ever (yes, harder than anything in Sunwell) and then Alone in the Dark proved to be few notches up from that. Bosses in vanilla and TBC were hard, but nowhere nearly as hard as bosses in WLK.

[rygenrainhammer]

People seem to have blinders on when it comes to Cataclysm's release date. Remember, Blizzard has other HUGE games being released this year...aka Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. Those titles might not mean much to a lot of WoW players, but many avid video gamers have been waiting YEARS for them. I know those titles have totally seperate developers and whatnot, but I think Activision is banking on a freaking banner year of Xmas sales for 2010 from Blizzard.

Diablo 3 is coming out this year. Right.... :P

[Woony]

Why do people keep sayin christmas will affect Cataclysm sales? Its fucking WoW, not a singleplayer game. People will buy the expansion, no matter when its released. Or did you see anyone ever saying "I want to play, but im not buying the addon until christmas?"

[vesseblah]

Cataclysm will come out on q3 of 2010 unless something cataclysmic happens that prevents it.

People are still forgetting the fact that Blizz 'promised' it to be ready before next Blizzcon in aug/sept.

[Sillicur]

Funny wording there. Vashj and C'thun 'pre-nerf' were indeed literally unkillable, not just a figure of speech. Bugs in the game prevented from doing those. Is that really what people want? Bugged piece of shit?

Curiously, the really hardcore guilds such as Ensidia in their blogs said first that Firefighter was the hardest boss ever (yes, harder than anything in Sunwell) and then Alone in the Dark proved to be few notches up from that. Bosses in vanilla and TBC were hard, but nowhere nearly as hard as bosses in WLK.

Well i have to agree that FireFighter was a piece of artwork. But it was nerfed in the first 2 weeks. That was the problem. Yogg+0 was also nerfed. Thing is i think it should have remained the same way way, killable but almost impossible. Perfect execution and RGN on your side to have a chance.

As about C'thun and Vashj pre-nerf, i do believe that Vashj (not C'thun) was killable. The big counter argument here is that while bosses in TBC and Vanilla stayed that hard for longer, WOTLK got the nerf bat wayy to soon. Sadly i never had the chance to experience firefighter pre-nerf, so i cant really speak about that.

[harky]

If 25H Lich King gets nerfed, it will be a very, very sad day. Actually, the fact that they let the buff persist in his room was already a sad day. Blizz let the kiddies see content, their obligation is done. There's no reason for them to spoon feed those kiddies the real content and punish the people who deserve to be there. Progression guilds deserve 25H Lich King to be left as is. Let the peanut gallery faceroll him when the buff is +30% and they're already in full 277 gear. Not like anything wouldn't be a joke at that point anyway.

[Renoxis]

I am having a hard time figuring why you keep saying they released BC in november duo to the upcoming X-mas.
most WoW player would get the expansion within a few days~weeks.

thats is the best sig i have ever seen, i tip my hat to you!

[Indilgo]

If 25H Lich King gets nerfed, it will be a very, very sad day. Actually, the fact that they let the buff persist in his room was already a sad day. Blizz let the kiddies see content, their obligation is done. There's no reason for them to spoon feed those kiddies the real content and punish the people who deserve to be there. Progression guilds deserve 25H Lich King to be left as is. Let the peanut gallery faceroll him when the buff is +30% and they're already in full 277 gear. Not like anything wouldn't be a joke at that point anyway.

Quit acting hardcore, the buff is not mandatory.

[MrWiggles]

I Don't think Lich King heroic is too hard, I think the rest was too easy. It seems blizzard just spikes the difficulty of the last boss a little too much comparatively. In Ulduar, my guild got vezax our first night of working him, but it took us 130 attempts to kill yogg. It would be nice to see the difficulty of the raids more uniform, gradually getting harder until the final boss.

[coolaide2]

Quit acting hardcore, the buff is not mandatory.

Comments like this are retarded,
If theres no penalty for using it and no reward for not using why wouldnt you use it your competition for server/world rankings will use it so falling behind for the sake of saying "we did it without the buff" which there isnt even an achievement for so theres no proof that you've done it would be retarded. sure maybe some people after killing it for the 10th time with the buff will do it without the buff but its not like they get anything from this so it is not a priority for any hard mode raiding guilds.

[heeroyuy99]

lol
Mid BC:things are to hard, make it easier for the average person to get into raids
Mid Wotlk: This stuff is too easy.
End of Wotlk: This fight is too hard.

To say something helpful to the conversation: I was also surprised to see them implement the buff while no guilds had killed arthas on heroic yet. I am curious if that bug that paragon had talked about on the 10 man version was also in effect on 25 man. But it looks like Blizz has proven to us again that they can still make a truly hard encounter. Yogg+0, Heroic Anub, and now Heroic Arthas.

I Don't think Lich King heroic is too hard, I think the rest was too easy. It seems blizzard just spikes the difficulty of the last boss a little too much comparatively. In Ulduar, my guild got vezax our first night of working him, but it took us 130 attempts to kill yogg. It would be nice to see the difficulty of the raids more uniform, gradually getting harder until the final boss.

i think you have it pretty correct there. Yogg+0 and Anub heroic were both extremely difficult, and still are, and all the other hard modes in Toc/Ulduar were nothing in comparison, though i can't say that firefighter was easy.

[Indilgo]

Comments like this are retarded,
If theres no penalty for using it and no reward for not using why wouldnt you use it your competition for server/world rankings will use it so falling behind for the sake of saying "we did it without the buff" which there isnt even an achievement for so theres no proof that you've done it would be retarded. sure maybe some people after killing it for the 10th time with the buff will do it without the buff but its not like they get anything from this so it is not a priority for any hard mode raiding guilds.

Read what I quoted... He was bitching about the buff having to be used to kill things.

[Sharaki]

The way they have done Heroic Lich King is smart. Design the boss around the idea your raid needs the 30% damage/healing and then that 0.1% will have the challenge of trying to beat it without the full blown power of that buff. That is a great way to make something insanely hard, artificial or not.

Sounds pretty good way to make things.

[Cirayne24]

Posts like these make me laugh. I've yet to see anyone from Paragorn or Ensida or Other Random top 10 guild make as much as a fuss about nerfs as people here.

I don't know, maybe they actually understand that WoW is a game. Nothing here that someone else in this game actually affects your game play outside of Server First Titles. Who cares who sees content? How does some people months down the road seeing your content affect your life? Are your lives so wrapped up in wow that you really need that much validation from a video game to go tell your friends actually did the content besides just watch it on Youtube? If you really care what RandomUser1234 from Florida thinks about your achievements then something is wrong.

It's a game, it doesn't matter! Getting a kill on a boss isn't going to land you that fat promotion or get that smoking hot girlfriend.

Unless it does... then you just blew my mind away!

[Deleted]

Dont think they made him TOO hard, but hard enough ;P

[erwin121]

When they announced a ways back that they would be adding a zone-wide buff to ICC eventually I assumed it was part of the "let more players see more content"(which I am totally cool with) and that it wouldn't be on until some guilds had managed to kill Arthas on heroic. But the fact that they have added it already, albeit not the full buff, makes me think they never intended him to be killed without the buff.

Well i would do the same to get rid of all those people whining (could say complaining but i think its more like whining) about stuff being to easy.

[Phoenixphire]

Posts like these make me laugh. I've yet to see anyone from Paragorn or Ensida or Other Random top 10 guild make as much as a fuss about nerfs as people here.

I don't know, maybe they actually understand that WoW is a game. Nothing here that someone else in this game actually affects your game play outside of Server First Titles. Who cares who sees content? How does some people months down the road seeing your content affect your life? Are your lives so wrapped up in wow that you really need that much validation from a video game to go tell your friends actually did the content besides just watch it on Youtube? If you really care what RandomUser1234 from Florida thinks about your achievements then something is wrong.

It's a game, it doesn't matter! Getting a kill on a boss isn't going to land you that fat promotion or get that smoking hot girlfriend.

Unless it does... then you just blew my mind away!

Would be one epic chat up line..

"Hey baby, wanna see my epic Sword?"
"Ooh? "
"Yeah, it got the killing blow on the Lich King pre nerf!"
"O.o"

[FreeTheRock]

Funny wording there. Vashj and C'thun 'pre-nerf' were indeed literally unkillable, not just a figure of speech. Bugs in the game prevented from doing those. Is that really what people want? Bugged piece of shit?

Curiously, the really hardcore guilds such as Ensidia in their blogs said first that Firefighter was the hardest boss ever (yes, harder than anything in Sunwell) and then Alone in the Dark proved to be few notches up from that. Bosses in vanilla and TBC were hard, but nowhere nearly as hard as bosses in WLK.

I bet you never did Nefarion back in vanilla. Now that was hard, all the class calls and what not. I remember when it ment something to down a boss and the fact that it took months and months and months for your server to have a lot of guilds with Nefarion on farm. Now a days within a week or so of a top guild killing a boss everyone has killed it by then. I wish it was back in the day again when seeing someone with Teir 1 or Tier 2 actually was epic and not being seen worn by every 80 around.