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  1. #1

    Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Addon Spotlight - Elitist Group
    Today's addon is a good way to build raid PUGs (raid weekly quests, I love you so much) without wasting too much time inspecting everyone to make sure that they're not terrible. Once again the original description is just fine and I'll steal it!



    Elitist Group's goal is to shift focus away from single scores that don't tell you anything about the users choice of gear. Instead of a single score you'll see a variety of information from experience in different tiers of dungeons and raids, to if their choice of equipment, enchants or gems matches their spec.

    Slash command: /elitistgroup (/eg) use /elitistgroup help for a list of slash commands.

    Equipment/gem/enchant
    Items are categorized based on their stats. Spell power is a caster item, hit is DPS, Strength is for melee dps and so on. You can see what type of item the person is wearing, as well as if it's valid for their spec. If your Holy Paladin is wearing block gear, it will flag that they are wearing gear intended for tanks. However, if they were a Protection Paladin it will allow it.

    While items will be categorized into their spec type, EG will also tell you if somebody is missing a gem or they are using green gems in epic gear.

    Dungeon experience
    Quickly see how experienced someone is through their achievements and stats. Everything is broken down by tier, 5 man, 10 man, 25 man and normal vs heroic. For raids, experienced is roughly 3 clears and for 5 mans it's around 6 (combined runs, not 6 of each 5 man). The scoring is setup to reward full clears. Somebody who has done the first 4 bosses in 25-man Trial of the Crusader but never clears it will have to do more runs to be considered experience than someone who clears the entire instance.

    Some achievements are also factored into the score to make it easier to be considered experienced. A Tribute to Insanity or The Immortal can count for an entire full clear. Even doing 25-man Ulduar hard modes will increase your 25-man Ulduar normal mode experience.

    Summary
    For both 5-mans and raids, a summary window is provided through /eg summary. Allowing you to quickly see party members talents and a quick pass/no pass for all of their gear, enchants and gems.

    Item level
    Item levels are used to give you an idea of where gear is from, as well as the players general gear quality. It is not the sole (or even the primary) stat shown. Items have quality modifiers to stop 200 blues being worth the same as 200 epics: 100% epic, 95% blue, 90% green, 60% white, 50% grey. Heirlooms are considered 187 item level blues at 80 (~2.22 item level/player level)

    Suggested dungeons are lowest item level dropped with a 89% modifier for 5-mans, 90% modifier for normal 10 and 25 mans, 91% modifier for heroic/hard mode 10 and 25 mans.

    Player notes
    Finished a dungeon, was your tank amazing? Player notes will let you rate him 1 - 5 as well as make a note for future reference, or for other people who group with him. You can leave one note per person, with your most recent note overwriting any old ones.

    Addon communication
    All notes, player data can be synced. You will only send your notes, and people can only request your gear data. This makes sure that there is less potential for people to mess up your database of players and corrupt it.

    Communications can be completely disabled, or you can choose to not listen to communications from certain channels to restrict who is allowed to request data. No communications are sent while in combat, they will be queued and processed gradually to prevent any noticeable effect on gameplay.


    Blue posts
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Beastcleave during MLG Orlando
    I don't think this is a clothie issue at all. In fact, appropriate use of Ice Block and Demonic Circle defensively made a big difference.

    I also don't want to discount the skill of those players at all. Make no mistake - these are very good players. While some of the matches were over very quickly, I think you're dramatically underestimating things if you think anyone would have performed the same with same setup.

    That said, coordinated damage (from the BM + the shaman's wolves for example) is just really high, and in some sense it has to be or everyone will just be healed again. We need to see more matches where everyone in the game is playing in a wounded state. You need to be able to wear someone down (without just wearing the mana of the healers down). Health just needs to be higher for everyone across the board, even in PvE, and healing power has to be lower. The buckets need time to fill and drain instead of being full or empty 90% of the time.

    I also think it's cool to see warlocks, hunters, shaman, paladins, druids and whatever classes I forgot that saw a lot of use at MLG Orlando, besides just RMP. Ideally those other comps would use a bit more CC (even if it's not quite at the RMP level) and there would be some matches that would last longer. The announcers did a good job of the play by play, but sometimes there just weren't enough plays to really have a sense of the kind of back and forth that make competitive sports interesting. (Source)

    [...] This thread quickly deteriorated from talking about the MLG matches to the same old tired arguments:

    1) RMP is skill. Anything that isn't RMP is faceroll.

    vs.

    2) CC is boring. Let's kill something.

    It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. There is room in competitive Arena for a lot of different comps. I for one am glad to see really talented players gravitating to something besides RMP vs. RMP for every match. It was nice to see other classes in there. I do wish the hunter + shaman combos fell back on other strategies more often than instantly blowing wolves + Bloodlust. In an ideal world it would be very effective (you are gambling a lot of cooldowns on that opening move after all), just less so than it is now.

    I don't fault the players at all -- they do it because it's effective. They focus because they have to focus -- because getting someone to 50% and switching targets would be ineffective. But if other teams could survive that initial burst a little more often, then it would be more risky, and in turn it wouldn't be so popular as the the first thing to do when the gates went up. I really don't think we're that far away from that, by which I mean we don't have to redesign every class to have Frost Nova + Ice Block to make Arena matches last a little longer.

    But as I said above (and most smart players realize) just buffing health / lowering damage alone won't do anything but put even *more* emphasis on burst, because getting someone to 2% will be as irrelevant as getting them to 99% (because the healers will just reset the match). Lower damage *and* lower healing and the matches will almost certainly last longer, hopefully without richocheting to the other extreme of layered CC or mana drains being the only way to play. (Source)

    Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator)
    The problem with Warbringer
    The problem with the PvP side of Warbringer is that when you consider prot warrior versus mage (just as an example), there was nothing a mage could do to a well versed warrior. The warrior carries a lot of stuns, silences, and then any attempt to root him is broken by multiple abilities. So then the warrior's teammate (like a hunter) is just doing tons of damage while the target has no defenses.

    For the other side of this change, we certainly don't design 5-player or raid content with the assumption that the tank has Warbringer (or a way out of snares and roots in general). We understand that it can be a big help in specific situations but we don't feel it's the only option in any PvE circumstances. (Source)

    Patch 3.3.x nerfs for prot warriors
    Let's look first at the Warbringer change.

    Will it nerf them for PvP? Yes. Aside from stuns and Dismantle, rooting or snaring the Prot warrior is the major way to keep him off of you. Considering all of the stuns and silences that Prot has, when they can also jump out of every Frost Nova with Warbringer, then there's not much in the way of skill a mage can employ to stay alive. They just get countered in every way.

    Will it nerf them for PvE? Yes, but really slightly. I'm not sure I can ever remember a case in my WoW-playing history where my warrior or some other tank caused a wipe because of a root, so even if it did happen, it can't happen that much or be that memorable. Warriors certainly won't get sat because of some new Achilles' heel and we don't design encounters around the assumption that tanks can't be rooted. The important part of Warbringer from a PvE perspective, removing the stance restrictions, is still intact.

    Now the damage change. As Bornakk posted recently, what we essentially did was look at some of the successful Prot PvP characters and compare them to some of the Prot tanks out there. We nerfed the block conversion to Shield Slam damage so that it would hit the PvP guy without really hitting the PvE guy. (The PvP warriors aren't stacking a ton of Shield Block Value, but they do have a lot of Strength which also converts to block for purposes of making Shield Slam hit harder -- many of these guys are wearing PvE dps plate.)

    Will it nerf them for PvP? Yes. We want Prot to be able to hit reasonably hard, but they also need to pay some price for their massive survivability. We thought the Warbringer change alone would nerf the warriors vs. e.g. mages but wouldn't control their damage. Those big Shield Slam crits should go down a lot.

    Will it nerf them for PvE? Probably not, or at least not much. If you tank with a lot of Strength or SBV, you might see your Shield Slams go down, but that's why we buffed the threat of Shield Slam to compensate.

    Again, keep the changes in perspective. We want Prot to be PvP viable. We don't want Prot warriors to dominate PvP or have everyone feel like they need one for their team. Likewise, we want Prot to do higher damage than the almost trivial damage that they did in BC. But that doesn't mean they need to be competitive with the dps while they're tanking. (Source)
    Comics
    It's monday! Dark Legacy Comic #221 and Teh Gladiators #108 are out!


  2. #2

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    DLC being awesome as usual :P

  3. #3
    Epic! phai's Avatar
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    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    blabla "eSports" blabla "beastcleave" blabla "skill" ...


    ... but a big YAY for DLC <3

    About the addon: I detest addons who judge players by using values of gear or something. That's wrong.
    I was a casual player up to patch 3.3 and don't have very good "gear score" or what you may call it, but I do my job very well in ICC25 and I'm glad about this. No addon can "tell" you that. And it never will. People tend to rate players by rate their gear ... I don't like that.

  4. #4

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    Addon Spotlight - Elitist Group
    People, bring the PLAYER... not the GEAR. For once, can we stop with this focus on gear scores and such? Before long, fresh 80s will be unable to join for anything. Is that seriously how we want the WoW community to develop?

    Anyone answering 'Yes' needs to have their head examined.

  5. #5

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Nice addon, gonna try it out today.
    "I tried to stop him! He used the mallet on himself."-Haha, I just love DLC.
    As for the addon, when inspecting players applying to a pug, I mostly look at enchants and gems. Bad players are often given away by wrong/no gems and enchants.

  6. #6

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Will it nerf them for PvE? Probably not, or at least not much. If you tank with a lot of Strength or SBV, you might see your Shield Slams go down, but that's why we buffed the threat of Shield Slam to compensate.
    /sigh

    Worst dps of all tanks just got worse.

  7. #7

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharay1977
    People, bring the PLAYER... not the GEAR. For once, can we stop with this focus on gear scores and such? Before long, fresh 80s will be unable to join for anything. Is that seriously how we want the WoW community to develop?

    Anyone answering 'Yes' needs to have their head examined.
    That's the whole point actually, this one also includes past achievements, bad gems/enchants, etc ... And I never posted about GearScore. ^^

  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten Zao's Avatar
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    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Excellent addon...going to replace GS with it right away.

    Especially the Player rating and notes sound good.
    And it also measures Enchants, gems and achievements. what more could I want (except for an addon that gives me an accurate estimation of skill)

  9. #9

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    That's the whole point actually, this one also includes past achievements, bad gems/enchants, etc ... And I never posted about GearScore. ^^
    Nice that someone took the time to make something like this.
    GS alone was absolutely annoying.
    You face not Malchezaar alone, but the legions he commands.

  10. #10

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    for years mages have been frost novaíng warrios in place without them being able to do anything. we had to switch stances alot back and forth to be able to get to that mage and able to hurt him. With the millions of frost nova's they had a good mage would not let a warrior get close.

    Now prot warriors get warbringer to be abit more ffective. we now dont get stuck in frost nova's not alot atleast. the table's are turner after alot of years and mages are QQíng their eyes out. druids cry caus they cant root effective anymore. and blizzard is nerfing us back but is it really needed? Without warbranger we will be the guy sitting in roots and frost nova's for an eternity again. yes we got spll rflect but we do need rage for that.

    and the thing i have seen is mage's adapting to this problem by staying in range of charge. That way i cant hit him but i cant charge asswell Frost nova is effective again..

    imo its just alot of QQ from whiny little 12 year olds wich cant kill a class wich they previously could, and still can if they play well enough.

  11. #11

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Addon Kind Of sums up What the game has become ....... a Joke, Unfortunately it is now deemed better to judge people by there gear and elite Gear scores rather than the actual players themselves, Oh well can't please everyone.

  12. #12

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Praise Boub for saving us from the plague of GS. <3

  13. #13

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    I doubt anyone will actually read this but let me make this clear:

    This is not Gearscore. As long as you are a competent enough player to gem/enchant/gear properly, you won't be flagged by this. If you're a Holy Paladin gemming Spirit you're going to get flagged... and you should. If you're a newly leveled 80 who is gemming Intellect or Spell Power, it's going to say you're fine. It really does not care about the quality of your gear, it cares that it's correct.

  14. #14

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Poor warriors, they was so close to PWN everyone.

  15. #15

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmin
    Addon Kind Of sums up What the game has become ....... a Joke, Unfortunately it is now deemed better to judge people by there gear and elite Gear scores rather than the actual players themselves, Oh well can't please everyone.
    It's also full of people who can't read, apparently.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Torne's Avatar
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    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    awesome addon!
    when i make PuGs i don´t care if someone has BiS gear,i just want to make sure they now what they are doing,so i look at they enchants and Gems, and only check the itemlevel to make sure no one with all 200s wants to get pulled through ICC.
    Gearscore reduced everyone to a number,this one can tell me ok,he doesn´t have best gear but look,he enchanted everything correctly,so he probably nows whats going on.
    In the end the winner is still the last man standing.

  17. #17

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Quote Originally Posted by Dura
    for years mages have been frost novaíng warrios in place without them being able to do anything. we had to switch stances alot back and forth to be able to get to that mage and able to hurt him. With the millions of frost nova's they had a good mage would not let a warrior get close.

    Now prot warriors get warbringer to be abit more ffective. we now dont get stuck in frost nova's not alot atleast. the table's are turner after alot of years and mages are QQíng their eyes out. druids cry caus they cant root effective anymore. and blizzard is nerfing us back but is it really needed? Without warbranger we will be the guy sitting in roots and frost nova's for an eternity again. yes we got spll rflect but we do need rage for that.

    and the thing i have seen is mage's adapting to this problem by staying in range of charge. That way i cant hit him but i cant charge asswell Frost nova is effective again..

    imo its just alot of QQ from whiny little 12 year olds wich cant kill a class wich they previously could, and still can if they play well enough.
    Ever since they removed the hunter dead zone, mages have completely forgotten about it. It's sad, but true, that there's an entire generation of mages who have no idea what that even means.

  18. #18

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    I can't believe Protwarriors being nerfed, when frost mages still dominate the arenas. Nerf frost mages in PvP dammit!

  19. #19

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    That's the whole point actually, this one also includes past achievements, bad gems/enchants, etc ... And I never posted about GearScore. ^^
    If you personally coded this AddOn, please, take the objection personally. If not, my apologies if I somehow implied it was directed at you personally.

    And no, I never mean my apologies seriously. Just call me Gregory (as in House M.D.).

  20. #20

    Re: Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

    This addon is great if it functions like it is supposed to.

    In contrary to GS it measures experience against gear
    In contrary to GS it compares gear, gems and enchants to spec and class
    In contrary to GS it gives you a decent view of the player you are inviting.

    And last but not least, this addon will destroy GS, which is a very, very good thing.

    And no, I have nothing to complain, my main is 50% 251+/264+ geared.

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