Tanking BiS - 3.3

[fl4shi]

just asking but
if you're already at 29 expertise why take vengeance glyphe?

[luthe]

So the HP increase of 450 outweighs the armor and such we get from the agi? yes if i change everything to straight stam gems its only a 450 hp increase. I havent looked into the full extent of the numbers but the agi provides 100 more armor. so i guess your correct as far as hp/armor is concerned. Also the agi provides .95% dodge so what we are looking at is 450HP compared to .95% dodge and 100 armor.

i didn't look at the profile but when i'm gemming, i ignore 6stam bonuses, meet 9stam (if one gem is blue and the other is red) with agi/stam, and obviously meet 12stams cause it's only a 3stam loss anyway.

losing 9 stamina for 10 agility is absolutely not worth it.

[Zelthan]

I changed the vengeance glyph to the Hammer of the righteous glyph. any other suggestions that may be better I'm all for it.

[Ronark]

Typical doesnt always mean the best. Once i can either confirm or deny about the talents being put into the equation on the profiler i personally am at a crossroads because if it IS only a 450HP increase i would rather have a percent of doge and a little more armor. Then again if all we are in conflict about is 450hp compared to .95%dodge/100 armor then we are doing good as far as this being the BiS list.

This is from the help page "Your statistics are updated as you edit any part of a profile, including race, class, level, items, enhancements, or talents – all in real time! Statistic modifications from glyphs and buffs are not presently supported, but will be in the future." here is the link to the help page http://www.wowhead.com/?help=profiler#calculations

I'll put up Rawr values in a hour and a half.

I changed the vengeance glyph to the Hammer of the righteous glyph. any other suggestions that may be better I'm all for it.

HotR glyph is useless as an MT.

[Nitez]

just asking but
if you're already at 29 expertise why take vengeance glyphe?

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p529034

TLDR version:

* SoV is our best threat glyph for tanking, hands-down, unless you have 53+ pre-glyph expertise.
* If you like the AS glyph for extra threat on the pull, use it as your third glyph.
* If you're at 53+ expertise without the SoV glyph active, Judgement is your best choice for an always-on threat glyph

[Zelthan]

I had the vengeance one because that was on my character but im not sure as to what the best one would be for a MT if not using that one. I personally never have any threat issues and our options are limited as far as what's good. We shouldnt need mana so any of the glyphs that provide that i skip over because i don't have an issue there either so threat during the fight is what i picked.

[Nitez]

HotR glyph is useless as an MT.

Do you reglyph for trash and heroics? If you're getting a tricks or a MD off the bat in any fight, threat will never be a concern.

[henern]

I'd take heroic juggernaut over emblem trinket any day of the week. 6k absorb and 10stamina vs 5186 hp extra hp for 15seconds. I'm not a big fan of the setbonuses either, so I'd try to pick up more items with one more gem slot instead of chest/legs/gloves. And also, like it has been pointed out, less purple gems, more stamina! Might be something else, but not that good of a BiS list imo

[Zelthan]

After sitting on this for a few minutes i figured id put it out there. The big argument is about gem choice's I personally would rather have agi/stam gems in red sockets and other people want straight Stam in all slots and that's fine either way imo. This was originally made for the GEAR not the gems but its ok ill roll with it. So lets start looking more at the gear and then look at the gems and talents and glyphs second. Also if your giving up your T10 set bonuses then u are missing out on some very nice things imo. The damage increase from the 2piece bonus is almost a must and the 4piece provides a nice cooldown when u need it. But thank you all for the input and keep it coming there isn't really a list out there for us and that's why i decided to do this.

[Unknownhero]

need more focus on armor parts

[Zelthan]

need more focus on armor parts

meaning???

[fl4shi]

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p529034

TLDR version:

* SoV is our best threat glyph for tanking, hands-down, unless you have 53+ pre-glyph expertise.
* If you like the AS glyph for extra threat on the pull, use it as your third glyph.
* If you're at 53+ expertise without the SoV glyph active, Judgement is your best choice for an always-on threat glyph

ok
but that doesnt explain why SoV and Judgement
there should be a better one for Judgement then right?
ok your only talking about BiS but the spec/glyph should represent that as well

but thx for the clarification didnt know that you go for 53 exp

[Zelthan]

I didn't post that btw. Also i said look at the gear first then look into other things. IF you have a suggestions as to what 3 glyphs to use please post them so we can all figure out what the best 3 are.

[Googolplex]

A small thing that really doesn't change your stats, but an error that many people make. IF you have the BS/JC combination as your professions, the only logical place for your JC gems are the BS sockets and the Belt socket.

Why ? Because those sockets will always be there, which means you can change pieces without worrying about JC gems colliding.

Now I know that with a BiS set, everything has sockets, but that wont be the case at lower gear levels, and trust me, when you suddenly want to swap to your "threat set" (or whatever set), and see the gems colliding, you will regret not putting them in the right sockets ^^

[Zelthan]

thanks and ill update that now.

[Nitez]

The two "mandatory" glyphs are Vengeance and Divine Plea. Then use either Hammer of the Righteous or AS glyph for the 3rd

[Ronark]

Do you reglyph for trash and heroics? If you're getting a tricks or a MD off the bat in any fight, threat will never be a concern.

MT assuming for raids- In any raid situation, HotR glyph is useless. Hell, its useless in Heroics as well since you should be running with Command.

[Prentice]

So the HP increase of 450 outweighs the armor and such we get from the agi? yes if i change everything to straight stam gems its only a 450 hp increase. I havent looked into the full extent of the numbers but the agi provides 100 more armor. so i guess your correct as far as hp/armor is concerned. Also the agi provides .95% dodge so what we are looking at is 450HP compared to .95% dodge and 100 armor.

Took my lunch break so I need to catch up. One of the most important things that you aren't considering is the ICC zone buff. The 5% health buff will scale while your avoidance/armor won't. Also consider that you are over 31k armor unbuffed. With Devo, MotW, Horn of Winter, Kings, and every other buff I am forgetting about, you edge closer and closer to the armor cap. If you changed out one of your current trinkets to the armor trinket from ICC, you'd probably be capped.

The .95% dodge, while useful, is not an accurate number. You have to consider what the tooltip says when you mouse over it. "Before diminishing returns". As I recall, dodge gained from agility is subject to the highest levels of DR. I can't be absolutely certain about this because I just don't theorycraft prot enough.

I changed the vengeance glyph to the Hammer of the righteous glyph. any other suggestions that may be better I'm all for it.

While 29 Expertise exceeds the softcap, tanks don't get the luxury of attacking from behind. Glyph of Seal of Vengeance is still vastly superior to Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous. Reducing your chance to be parried by 2.5% is a very significant threat buff and also slightly increases your survivability on several fights. Along with Divine Plea, Glyph of SoV is one of the almost mandatory prot glyphs.

[Prentice]

One last very minor detail. Glyph of the Wise doesn't belong anywhere on a BiS prot pally. Never has. That glyph slot should probably be filled by Glyph of LoH. While not terribly important, it is certainly more useful that what you have in there now. During intense fights, I will regularly use my LoH on one of our healers for the extra 2k mana it provides if I haven't already blown it on one of the tanks or someone who got in trouble elsewhere.

[Zelthan]

Ok recent change. I changed Glyph of the wise out for Glyph of LoH.