Blue posts, MMO Report, Comics

[Typhron]

There are actually two components to this seal. It does X holy damage to your target and will "cleave" that Holy damage to 2 other targets. Auto Attack and Shield of Righteousness both will do the cleave portion. Hammer of the Righteous does not do the cleave however it does apply the Holy damage to each of the targets that the hammer hits. Also adding Reckoning to your build will increase your auto attack by a large amount and thus increasing the effectiveness of this seal quite a bit.

It may seem like "crap damage" on the surface but it quickly adds up. When I first read about this dramatically increasing DPS for a tank I was skeptical until I tried it. On trash my DPS went from around on average 2200 DPS to 3200 DPS.

While this is nice it really is out of control. When 3 of the 5 main abilities in the tanking rotation are doing AoE damage and two of those are on a 6 second cooldown something is wrong. Personally I think Blizzard should just make Seal of Command only usable when wielding a 2HD weapon. They might even need to tone down the damage HotR is doing as well because even before I used SoC I felt maintaining threat on trash was trivial.

Off course it adds quickly. That's how tanking works.

Also, No tank takes Reckoning. None that I know of, anyway, thanks to be far too over capped in various mit stats for Reckoning to proc ever.

[wordtipping]

The irony in all this is that the fuss is about trash tanking. Yes, with SoC Tankadin dps is too high. Nerf SoC in some way.

The fact of the matter though is outside of some Warrior tanks, no one really wants trash tanking to be harder. It is one of the more tedious aspect of raiding. The DPS like that they don't have to worry about pulling aggro. Healers like that they don't pull aggro. Everyone likes plowing the trash and posting gaudy numbers.

On single targets things even out quickly. Out of the bunch I think warriors need the most help. Everyone of the tanking classes does comparable threat, and excepting warriors, dps. This comes back to my original point. I think Warriors are still a bit broken. They still rely on class mechanics developed in vanilla WoW. All of the other tanks have had their mechanics developed either in TBC or WotLK to reflect the developers new views on things. Warriors are still the same and stuck in the past.

[TobiasX]

Off course it adds quickly. That's how tanking works.

Also, No tank takes Reckoning. None that I know of, anyway, thanks to be far too over capped in various mit stats for Reckoning to proc ever.

Reckoning was great for paladins tanking Anub with all their stacked block rating but in general I find prot pally talents are stretched too thin to have room for something like Reckoning.

[wordtipping]

Off course it adds quickly. That's how tanking works.

Also, No tank takes Reckoning. None that I know of, anyway, thanks to be far too over capped in various mit stats for Reckoning to proc ever.

I take Reckoning since I always have a Paladin healer and MT. ICC is making me change my mind a bit as I see a lot more opportunities to use Divine Sacrifice without killing myself. I took Reckoning mainly for trash and heroic farming as a result to fill in some points.

[Omedon]

To me, Paladins and DK work the best as tanks. They have a rhythm. You can get into the tanking zen and focus on the fight. It reminds me of raiding as a rogue. Tanking as a warrior reminds me more of being a healer and why I hated it.

seconded

[Thoridyss]

I don't view that as skill or fun. I don't like being glued to the screen waiting for reactive abilities or the next step in a FCFS rotation. I don't want my core function to be the difficult part of the game. I would rather the difficult part to be reacting to the fight itself, knowing when to use key abilities through out a fight and raid communication. I want to see the fight, not pay attention to my hot-bar.

To me, Paladins and DK work the best as tanks. They have a rhythm. You can get into the tanking zen and focus on the fight. It reminds me of raiding as a rogue. Tanking as a warrior reminds me more of being a healer and why I hated it.

To each their own really, that's why the tanks most likely have different Playstyes, but fact still remains, Playing a Prot Paladin is putting the game to easy in terms of tanking. Some people prefer to play their games on easy, some prefer to play their games on "Hard." Personally I have no problems watching the the fight with an FCFS rotation, I don't spend the entire fight watching my hotbars. Warriors have to know when to use key abilities far more than paladins do. Personally, I like having something to do every single GCD and not be a set rotation, it personally puts me into the fight encounter more. Paladins take me out of the encounter because I don't have to put as much concentration into the game. I also have fantastic Raid communication, perhaps I'm just better at multi-tasking so I find the Warriors play-style fun and more appealing. But at the end of the day you and every Prot Pally should know that Warrior that just MTed did far more work than you did, and did it just as well, without having to put it on easy mode. That to me is the most insulting part of the prot Pally and why i refuse to play mine anymore.

[TobiasX]

To me, Paladins and DK work the best as tanks. They have a rhythm. You can get into the tanking zen and focus on the fight. It reminds me of raiding as a rogue. Tanking as a warrior reminds me more of being a healer and why I hated it.

This can work both ways though. Sometimes being in that 'zen' left me free to focus on other things in the fight, other times it put me to sleep and I missed cooldowns.

[Mech]

Blizzard usually only sends recruiters to the GDC. Chilton may be there but that's about it.

[Lightfist]

Alright, I'm just going to go ahead and say it.

Warrior tanks, you're doing it wrong.

Don't tell me how hard it is. Your opinion doesn't matter. I tank with a Warrior tank, and his Shockwaves regularly crit for 10k. His Thunderclaps hit as hard as my Consecrations do throughout their entire tick. His Shield Slams crit for 12k with Shield Block up, and his Revenge already hits as much as my Hammer or Shield.

To each their own really, that's why the tanks most likely have different Playstyes, but fact still remains, Playing a Prot Paladin is putting the game to easy in terms of tanking...

And you have no idea what you're talking about! Congrats!

No tanks have hard rotations. None of them. It's about leading the raid, watching your CDs, and using your tank utility.

During any given fight, I'm putting Hands on people for any number of things from removing stacks to removing snares, popping Divine Sacrifice/Guardian (which has saved my raid multiple times), keeping Sacred Shield up to let Holy Paladins use it on other people, and even watching my other tank in case he needs extra mitigation/a quick heal.

So no, Paladin tanks aren't easy mode. You're just a bad one, but think you're a good Warrior tank because you're clicking Heroic Strike a lot. Bye.

[Bears_are_real]

seconded

Thirded

I like play my pally tank not because he is easy,I still have dumb ass dps pull aggro before me and I have to work my ass to get aggro back,i like the mana aspect because Rage seems limiting to me,I like the idea of of a holy warrior going into battles to crusade for his righteous ideals.warriors are just so dry when it comes to their abilities and game play.Fury is fun but tanking for me is just tedious and doesn't feel as epic as warriors.

I think paladins are a good tanking class but I thin the classes just need more helping getting to that level,not nerf hump pallies.

[DrgnDancer]

Alright, I'm just going to go ahead and say it.

Warrior tanks, you're doing it wrong.

Don't tell me how hard it is. Your opinion doesn't matter. I tank with a Warrior tank, and his Shockwaves regularly crit for 10k. His Thunderclaps hit as hard as my Consecrations do throughout their entire tick. His Shield Slams crit for 12k with Shield Block up, and his Revenge already hits as much as my Hammer or Shield.

And you have no idea what you're talking about! Congrats!

No tanks have hard rotations. None of them. It's about leading the raid, watching your CDs, and using your tank utility.

During any given fight, I'm putting Hands on people for any number of things from removing stacks to removing snares, popping Divine Sacrifice/Guardian (which has saved my raid multiple times), keeping Sacred Shield up to let Holy Paladins use it on other people, and even watching my other tank in case he needs extra mitigation/a quick heal.

So no, Paladin tanks aren't easy mode. You're just a bad one, but think you're a good Warrior tank because you're clicking Heroic Strike a lot. Bye.

So the fact that you have time, while tanking, to do part of the healer's job doesn't say to you that maybe the tanking itself is relatively easy? I'm not saying it isn't great that you do all the extra stuff, but the fact that you have time too seems to indicate that the actual "get and keep threat" part of your job isn't taxing you much. Maybe the reason that your Warrior is keeping up with you so well it that he's putting out pure TPS abilities while you're busy casting heals, Sacred Shielding, HoFing, blah blah blah.

Again, Not saying you're doing it wrong, it's nice that you can do all this extra stuff for your raid. Most tanks, however, don't have that kind of utility. So they spend all their GCDs on Threat generating abilities. And you keep up with them. Think about it.

[Thoridyss]

Alright, I'm just going to go ahead and say it.

Warrior tanks, you're doing it wrong.

Don't tell me how hard it is. Your opinion doesn't matter. I tank with a Warrior tank, and his Shockwaves regularly crit for 10k. His Thunderclaps hit as hard as my Consecrations do throughout their entire tick. His Shield Slams crit for 12k with Shield Block up, and his Revenge already hits as much as my Hammer or Shield.

And you have no idea what you're talking about! Congrats!

No tanks have hard rotations. None of them. It's about leading the raid, watching your CDs, and using your tank utility.

During any given fight, I'm putting Hands on people for any number of things from removing stacks to removing snares, popping Divine Sacrifice/Guardian (which has saved my raid multiple times), keeping Sacred Shield up to let Holy Paladins use it on other people, and even watching my other tank in case he needs extra mitigation/a quick heal.

So no, Paladin tanks aren't easy mode. You're just a bad one, but think you're a good Warrior tank because you're clicking Heroic Strike a lot. Bye.

Most Hilarious post today. You sir have no idea what YOU are talking about when it comes to Warriors.. I was waiting for that one Self Righteous Paladin tank that really believes his class is hard. I was in shock you didn't rear you head in sooner. I dunno have you ever thought the fact that you can do all this stuff that say your healers are doing may not be intended.. and this proves that your class is so easy that in order to fill gaps you do jobs not intended for your spec. YOU sir just proved my point more so that Prot Paladins are easy mode.

I mean I'm sorry my Demo Shout isn't automatuc and I have to reapply it myself, I'm sorry that my Shield Block ability is on a longer cd and not just one of my random rotation Buttons (and guess what Prot Paladins have a rotation, you're the one who has no idea what they are talking about, Guess what so do DKs to an extent.) I'm sorry I have to judge when to use my Last Stand because mine doesn't automatically save me from death. I'm sorry my Cleave isn't on my auto-attack. I'm sorry I have to use a lot more judgment, when to use certain tools, I'm sorry I have to actually watch interuptable attacks, I'm sorry I have to watch for Buffs on the Mob that need to be removed (Mind you those last two things usually you can have someone else in the raid do and just worry about TPS and positioning, but smetimes you are SoL and end up doing one or the other.). I'm sorry my class takes far more attention to do my classes spec correctly and you get to Lolligag and do things your spec is not supposed to be doing. I'm also sorry that you've brainwashed yourself into thinking your spec of class is hard. Bye.

[Feenom]

I love the MMO report.

You don't have to justify posting it every week, it should be on here. They plug MMO-Champion almost every weak any way. Deserves some love.

[Sageth]

I'm sorry:
- [1] my Demo Shout isn't automatuc
- [2] that my Shield Block ability is on a longer cd
- [3] I have to judge when to use my Last Stand
- [4] my Cleave isn't on my auto-attack
- [5] I have to use a lot more judgment, when to use certain tools
- [6] I have to actually watch interuptable attacks
- [7] I have to watch for Buffs on the Mob that need to be removed
- [8] my class takes far more attention to do my classes spec correctly

I'll start by saying I don't think Paladins are difficult to tank with. But to get to your points:
[1] A retri paladin will do this, and yours is AoE. Try putting a -AP debuff on 10 mobs as a paladin.
[2] Your shield block works differently. Yours can be used to absorb bursts. Paladin's still have their version from back when crushing blows were a big deal.
[3] You don't see this as a bonus? I do.
[4] Back in TBC I used to create macro's for my warrior. I just macro'd 1 active ability with an on-next-swing attack. That doesn't work no more?
[5] You have certain tools. Paladins would love to have them.
[6] No raid relies on a tank to do the interrupting. But Paladins would love to be able to do this.
[7] Same as #6. You're just showing how superior warriors are. You can tank ánd do this kind of stuff.
[8] Really? You're assuming Paladins just use their 969 rotation and that's it, while Warriors are supposed to do a million different things. Paladins can say the same thing. Paladins need to watch people to get cleansed, remove slows, reduce their threat, give them a shield, change aura's, LoH someone etc.

Paladins aren't hard to play. Warriors aren't hard to play either.

[TobiasX]

[8] Really? You're assuming Paladins just use their 969 rotation and that's it, while Warriors are supposed to do a million different things. Paladins can say the same thing. Paladins need to watch people to get cleansed, remove slows, reduce their threat, give them a shield, change aura's, LoH someone etc.

I think this is the problem Sageth: Those are not the jobs of any tank. Your jobs are:
- keep yourself alive (through the use of your emergency cooldowns)
- keep the raid alive (by, and only by, generating threat on the targets assigned to you)
No tanks are meant to remove anything via cleanse or hand of freedom, reduce threat via hand of salvation, or heal somebody via lay on hands.

Utility is meant to be left to the dps and healers, your sole job is to tank.

The only exception to this that I'm aware of is self-cleansing when tanking steelbreaker but, again, this is using your own abilities to keep yourself alive. If you have time between keeping threat and paying attention to the other enemy targets to dispell or heal either you outgear the encounter or something is very, very wrong.

... or perhaps we're all looking at this the wrong way. Maybe that's the paladin tank's utility: keeping threat is made easier than for other tanking classes (the existence of the 9696 macro cannot be denied) in order for them to provide more raid help while keeping aggro. Thoughts?

[ludothegreat]

Sorry, but just like everything else at G4 the MMOReport is complete crap.

[toddless]

I think this is the problem Sageth: Those are not the jobs of any tank. Your jobs are:
- keep yourself alive (through the use of your emergency cooldowns)
- keep the raid alive (by, and only by, generating threat on the targets assigned to you)
No tanks are meant to remove anything via cleanse or hand of freedom, reduce threat via hand of salvation, or heal somebody via lay on hands.

Utility is meant to be left to the dps and healers, your sole job is to tank.

The only exception to this that I'm aware of is self-cleansing when tanking steelbreaker but, again, this is using your own abilities to keep yourself alive. If you have time between keeping threat and paying attention to the other enemy targets to dispell or heal either you outgear the encounter or something is very, very wrong.

... or perhaps we're all looking at this the wrong way. Maybe that's the paladin tank's utility: keeping threat is made easier than for other tanking classes (the existence of the 9696 macro cannot be denied) in order for them to provide more raid help while keeping aggro. Thoughts?

I disagree with your statement. I am a pally healer - and here is what I notice with several fights in ICC healing tanks of all classes.

Paladins: The funnest to heal - but perhaps only because we generally do better with undead. In fights like Rotface - a paladin tank must be ready to cleanse and pick up the Big Ooze - to put that duty onto someone else like the pally healer would be silly -- they cannot judge if the OT is ready for the slime to be dispelled. Also, using Hand of Freedom during this fight allows the Pally tank to walk through the slime without the movement debuff -- which is very nice. Throwing out hands to others is a way for a pally tank to be responsible for his control over raid threat (especially using Hand of Salvation). It would be silly not to use all of your utility spells if you are a skilled enough player to do so.

Warriors: By far have the worst track record in staying alive. I can sit there and crit you for 25-27k per second and you'll still die. Why? I don't know, I'm a healer, not a tank.

Druids: The easiest to heal by far. There is just something about barkskin and the 40 billion other cooldowns that make me, a tank healer, all tingly inside. I've never had issues with a druid tank holding aggro or dying via random damage spikes.

DK's: A very unique choice - I've seen some horrible DK tanks, and some beyond excellent ones. It's all about skill imo.

Either way - tanking isn't difficult - that's why there aren't many tanks -- it gets too boring. There are some terrible tanks out there that don't know how to hold aggro - however, if you are popping your cooldowns intelligently and using the fight dynamics correctly - you should have no issues no matter what class you are.

Arguably certain classes have an upper hand in tanking - but overall you all do the same thing.

Quit your bitchin and do your job. ^_^

[toddless]

BTW right now blizzard downloader tells me I'm downloading patch 3.3.3

unless this is just blizzards way of splitting the patch -- perhaps this is the
first time MMO Champion will be wrong?

[Protspecd]

fat purps? srsly?

DLC is great as usual

We get it. Every god damn time a DLC comic is released, the comment page is filled with, "DLC is win again, DLC is great as usual, DLC is awesome as usual."

WE GET IT! ARGH! Seriously, why not only comment when it is bad, and comment on how they could have made it better by your standards or something. Or just not talk about it at all and comment on the damn WoW changes.

OT: I don't care if it is unstable atm, RELEASE! I want to go into RS already!

[Sageth]

I think this is the problem Sageth: Those are not the jobs of any tank.

Ah but you missed the point where the warrior I was responding to kept going on how warriors have it harder because they need to interrupt, debuff, dispell etc.

Claiming a warrior tank is harder because he has to interrupt is the same as saying a paladin tank is harder because he has to cleanse. Both are usually done by others. Both make the tanks a bit more unique.