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  1. #1

    Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    TLDR Version: talent tree is at the bottom. Go look at it, but no posting in this thread unless you have learned to read.

    I found some notes I put together a year ago, and figured I would actually do something with them. Below is my version of what a Shadow Hunter class could look like in WoW. It's just a concept, so I would be interested in feedback from people regarding the talent trees and theorycrafting. This is actually rather detailed, due to the inclusion of reasoning behind decisions, so don't be in a hurry.

    Lore:
    These reclusive, wily jungle trolls are considered to be the highest authority within there respective warbands. They are masters of voodoo magics who can use their spirit powers to both heal their allies and place curses upon their hapless enemies. The Shadow Hunters walk the line between darkness and light in hopes of salvaging the future for their savage brethren.

    The trolls draw power for their voodoo magics by performing rituals and invoking the Prima Gods, Old Gods, forest spirits, and ancestral spirits: their Loa.

    Loa spirits are more powerful than the elements, but not as powerful as gods. Supposedly, these spirits are mighty entities that grant the faithful extraordinary powers. By calling upon these voodoo spirits, the Shadow Hunter gains special blessings with which he can combat darkness and help those in need. The abilities vary according to the Loa the Shadow Hunter calls upon.

    The Shadow Hunters faith and communion with the Loa gods grants them shadow and healing magic, and other abilities. Shadow Hunters learn magic that hinders enemies and aids allies, gaining a unique mix of spells that delve into the more occult aspects of the Loa.

    Hero Class:
    Since entirely new, non-existent classes are difficult to manifest at this point, influences for a hybridization comes from mixing elements of existing classes. Also, since the last hero class was a tank / melee dps class, for balance a healer / range dps class would be applicable.
    Death Knight - paladin / warlock class combo, tank / melee dps role combo
    Shadow Hunter - shaman / warlock / priest class combo, healer / range dps role combo

    Role:
    Tank (4) - Druid / Warrior / Paladin / Death Knight
    Melee DPS (6) - Druid / Rogue / Shaman / Warrior / Paladin / Death Knight
    Range DPS (7) - Mage / Priest / Warlock / Druid / Shadow Hunter / Shaman / Hunter
    Healer (5) - Priest / Druid / Shadow Hunter / Shaman / Paladin

    Armor Class:
    For armor allocation, and gear itemization, maintaining a balance in loot is important. Shadow Hunters would share loot primarily with druids (both balance and resto). While Shadow Hunters could have gone with mail for balance reasons, lore indicates a lighter armored class, and it was important to denote more of a distinction between Shaman / Shadow Hunter since there are already natural similarities.
    Plate (3) - Warrior / Paladin / Death Knight
    Mail (2) - Shaman / Hunter
    Leather (3) - Rogue / Druid / Shadow Hunter
    Cloth (3) - Mage / Warlock / Priest

    Weapon Proficiency:
    Physical damage is largely divided by agility / strength stats, since the classes can essentially use almost all of the same weapons. For casters, the stats are the same (albeit spirit vs. hit for healer vs. dps) so the distinction comes from weapon proficiency.
    Primarily:
    Dagger / Sword - Mage / Warlock
    Dagger / Mace - Priest / Druid / Shaman
    ---
    For slight lore reasons but more balance issues, Shadow Hunters would be:
    Dagger / Sword / Fist / Staff
    Offhand
    Range - Fetish / Thrown

    Faction and Race:
    From a lore standpoint, Shadow Hunters are trolls. In the interest of faction balance (and to avoid the Shaman / Paladin issue from vanilla) an Alliance race is needed. Again, from a lore standpoint, if Night Elves are closely linked to trolls then it could be a relatively easy argument to introduce primal Night Elves. It actually makes a lot more sense than Draenei Shaman. But, as someone pointed out, it would help if Goblins and Gnomes (ewww) were in the mix, and that wouldn't hurt anything.

    While Shadow Hunters could end up going the Death Knight route, I personally disagree with "everything for everyone". I made this all because I liked lore, so I'm going with lore. Death Knights could have been Orc, Undead, Human, Dwarf and worked out fine with classic lore, but the class was ret-con'd.

    Element Schools:
    As far as caster damage is concerned, classes are typically balanced with two elemental schools. While some classes can cast more (ie Shaman with Frost Shock) it isn't necessarily a large part of their regular rotation. Below is a comparison to show how Shadow Hunters retain a unique flavor, and how they fit in with the other classes.
    Mage - fire / frost / arcane
    Priest - holy / shadow
    Warlock - fire / shadow
    Druid - nature / arcane
    Shadow Hunter - nature / shadow
    Shaman - nature / fire

    Talent Trees:
    Hybrids have a few options. They can be dual spec (Priest, Warrior, Death Knight), tri spec (Shaman, Paladin), or quad spec (Druid). In this case dual spec was chosen, so if one talent tree is devoted to damage and one tree is devoted to healing, what is done with the third tree? While Shadow Hunters are a cross between Shaman and Warlock for lore and ability, the talent trees are structured more along the lines of a Priest.
    Voodoo - damage tree
    Superstition - utility / support tree
    Mysticism - healing tree

    Blizzard is attempting to get away from PvE vs PvP trees, so the trees are structured around choosing a role first (dps or healer), and then using the support tree to determine how offensive or defensive your play style is. The Superstition tree was the most difficult to work out, as it needed to be viable for both roles in PvE (at least early in the tree) instead of completely defaulting to PvP.


    Healing (Mysticsm):
    I went with the basic premise of small heal, big heal, HoT, group heal, shield. Wards and Hexes are meant to add a little flavor, but to make this classes unique from the other healers (and possibly more desirable) was to find ways of weaving in damage. Instead of a healer that can damage, creating the healer that should damage. Examples are [Empowered Malaria], [Voodoo Link] and [Voodoo Siphon]. [Spirit Link] (Spirit Walker, WC3 TFT) was originally going to be given to Shaman in WotLK (replaced with Riptide), but was probably going to be too difficult to balance. [Voodoo Link] takes that idea, but is similar to a Warlock's [Health Funnel] and the green drakes in Occulus / Eye of Eternity, so the Shadow Hunter has to damage the enemy to heal themselves, and subsequently pass that healing to tanks. This is also a mechanic used in Warhammer.

    Damage (Voodoo):
    Casting rotations have gotten more interesting since earlier expansions of WoW. Not all of them are necessarily complicated, but the intent is to add some variables to the mix. For example in TBC elemental Shaman cast Lightning Bolt. In WotLK, the rotation became Flame Shock + Lava Burst + Lightning Bolt + Chain Lightning depending on haste values due to the cooldown of Lava Burst. Destruction Warlocks spammed Shadowbolt and owned the meters in TBC (until mid-Sunwell and Incinerate). In WotLK, Immolate + Chaos Bolt + Conflagarate + Incinerate. For Druids, talents encouraged weaving Wrath and Starfire based on crits and procs.

    While every class has their spamable ability, there also needs to be a rotation and situational spells. The big thing that helped rotations was priority due to cooldowns, and buffs that reinforced other abilities. (Flame Shock enabling Lava Burst to crit, Immolate being required for Conflagarate to be cast, etc.)

    The spamable spell is [Black Voodoo] and have a volley animation.
    Additional spells are: [Malaria] instant DoT, [Fel Strike], [Stormspear], [Burning Heart] Holy Fire animation - but blue, [Meuh'zala], and then concoctions for AoE.
    I'm curious to see what theorycrafting people come up with regarding rotations, and adjustments / improvements will be made based on input.

    Utility (Superstition):
    This was definitely the more challenging tree to design. It was intended to support the other two trees as far as PvE and PvP while healing or damaging. Additionally it works in its own right as a heavy PvP / questing tree with a greater focus on control, but still viable for say running dungeons and heroics.



    >>TALENT TREE<<
    http://war-tools.com/t67741.html
    >>TALENT TREE<<



    Cataclysm concepts for your enjoyment:
    T11 shoulders* * ||* * Shadow Hunter Hero Class

  2. #2

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    >>TRAINABLE TALENTS<<
    http://war-tools.com/t67764.html
    >>TRAINABLE TALENTS<<

    Thumbnail below is the individual armor / weapon components I decided on:
    Last edited by Sarlac; 2010-10-15 at 10:32 PM.


    Cataclysm concepts for your enjoyment:
    T11 shoulders* * ||* * Shadow Hunter Hero Class

  3. #3

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Really cool! Nature/Shadow combo along with dps orientated heals is inspiring =)

    I fully support troll / night elf as the only races as well. Tauren and Worgen could come second if it would be needed.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Vidur's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    I like the idea of the 'reverse healer' - doing damage to an enemy in order to heal your allies. I myself have thought of abilities very similar to things like, "Hex of Life" and "Sacrifice" so it's cool to see them incorporated in such a great way. I also like how the class revolves around voodoo and the Loa; would give them a great background story. The need for a new healer/ranged DPS is apparent and this seems to fit in well. Can't wait to see the final product.


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  5. #5
    Mechagnome Silenteyes's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    I like this idea, i can see you've put alot of thought into this, Can't wait to see what it s when finished

    Just one thing. Where does the hunter part come in from a shaman/warlock combo =P

    (Sorry i couldn't help myself)

  6. #6

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenteyes
    Just one thing. Where does the hunter part come in from a shaman/warlock combo =P

    (Sorry i couldn't help myself)
    Ha ha ha! I knew somebody was going to bring that up.

    From my perspective, just because they have 'Hunter' in the name doesn't necessarily equate to WoW's version of a Hunter. After all most of the Hunter races in WoW would actually be Rangers (if you want to get technical... and I do... ) There is a lot to pull from for Shadow Hunter lore, but the most prevalent qualities are the mystic-caster-guy. This is slightly a subjective issue, but if you look at all the data, Shadow Hunters are more in-tune with Shaman, Warlock, Priest (Horde Priest, not the Alliance garbage) instead of Hunter.

    However... I did make a couple of nods to Hunters with the thrown weapon abilities [Fel Glaive]+[Stormspear] based on their traditional weapons and lore, and then [Marked for Death] is the equivalent to Hunters, except its spell power instead of attack power. But that's it! I didn't want the class identity to be too weird.

    Slightly off-topic: very curious to see how the Witch Doctor ends up for D3... because I will definitely be playing one!


    Cataclysm concepts for your enjoyment:
    T11 shoulders* * ||* * Shadow Hunter Hero Class

  7. #7

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    That was actually a really good read, nice one
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiggity
    Tanks and healers are like women, they subsist on compliments and praise.

  8. #8

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Quote Originally Posted by ROWKEM
    I like the idea of the 'reverse healer' - doing damage to an enemy in order to heal your allies. I myself have thought of abilities very similar to things like, "Hex of Life" and "Sacrifice" so it's cool to see them incorporated in such a great way. I also like how the class revolves around voodoo and the Loa; would give them a great background story. The need for a new healer/ranged DPS is apparent and this seems to fit in well. Can't wait to see the final product.

    oh so your saying, reverse healing, like a shadow priest...

  9. #9

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Really nice job man, but with the tallents i gotta say under voodoo i wanted every single tallent there :P. But i love this idea and i wish they would make this class

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Silenteyes's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Quote Originally Posted by painweaver
    oh so your saying, reverse healing, like a shadow priest...
    Alot of classes do reverse healing e.g Paladins (Judgement of light, Divine Storm Etc.)

  11. #11

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    There are a few things I don't like about your ideas, but I'll only name some.
    Races:
    Horde - Trolls, Goblins
    Alliance - Gnomes, Night Elves

    Goblins were once slaves to Trolls, and as such have had high exposure to their ways. Add to that they've become geniuses and it's no stretch to say Goblins could become Shadowhunters.

    Voodoo Gnomes have been in the game since as early as at least Zul'Gurub, and have been mentioned a few times since then. In my opinion, the most believable Alliance race would be Gnomes, though I agree with Night Elves for the same reasons as you've said.

    Allowing only one race each side to be a specific class is a bad idea, and adding these two would solve alot of complaints.


    Also, I agree that there should be a physical based tree, that still uses some nature/shadow, as 'Headhunting' should be a large part of the class, akin to how Death Knights consumed Liches.
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  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Vidur's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Quote Originally Posted by painweaver
    oh so your saying, reverse healing, like a shadow priest...
    I'm certain a RL is not going to take a Shadow Priest over a Holy or Discipline Priest, when it comes to choosing "a healer". From my understanding of the class, the SH would have comparable heals to the latter 2, say, but would do so mainly by causing damage, whether direct or indirect. Perhaps next time contribute something worthwhile to the post instead of nitpicking someone elses replies.

    'What other people think of me is none of my business" - RuPaul

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    I'm impressed. Much better than the 'this class should be in the game cuz it would be kewl lol' threads I see.

    One thing I could suggest for the Alliance side Shadow Hunters is to make many of the spells and talents a bit more ambiguous. Some of the spells are fine but 'voodoo' has always been strictly a troll thing, even the other Horde races don't like the voodoo. A way to counteract this is to give a 'lore' tree for the night elves. A good example of this is the priest talent trees, players can choose any spec regardless of race, but in lore, Forsaken are strictly shadow priests and humans and draenei are almost exclusively Holy. So while night elf players could definitely spec into 'Voodoo', they would have a different kind of shadow hunter lore-wise. I recommend looking at the Warden from WC3: The Frozen Throne, the Avatar spell could be an inspiration to making this 'night elf' tree.

  14. #14

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    this is honestly an AMAZING post and makes me wish it was a class but i don't really understand the superstition tree all that well?

    is it a damage tree or just support? and when i say support i mean like how paladins were in vanilla

  15. #15

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    The damage to heal mechanic, while being totally fun, might be a tough sell.

    Why would I want a stupid ol' priest that heals when I could have a Shadow Hunter putting up some damage and healing?

    Also, a few fights it might not work so well. Can't think of a specific off hand but lets say the boss goes immune to damage and does some AoE as a mechanic of the fight. Well, since the Shadowhunter can't do damage, no one is healed.
    Is this where the header goes?

  16. #16

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Hm... while this looks fairly well thought out, it doesn't have anything to do with cataclysm, does it?

    Also, the offensive healing mechanic would require the class to have some other disadvantage to make it undesirable to just forego all other potential healers, though not severe enough to make them useless. This might be quite tough to balance and in the end could turn out to just not be worth the hassle.

  17. #17

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Healing (Mysticsm):
    I went with the basic premise of small heal, big heal, HoT, group heal, shield. Wards and Hexes are meant to add a little flavor, but to make this classes unique from the other healers (and possibly more desirable) was to find ways of weaving in damage. Instead of a healer that can damage, creating the healer that should damage. Examples are [Empowered Malaria], [Voodoo Link] and [Voodoo Siphon]. [Spirit Link] (Spirit Walker, WC3 TFT) was originally going to be given to Shaman in WotLK (replaced with Riptide), but was probably going to be too difficult to balance. [Voodoo Link] takes that idea, but is similar to a Warlock's [Health Funnel] and the green drakes in Occulus / Eye of Eternity, so the Shadow Hunter has to damage the enemy to heal themselves, and subsequently pass that healing to tanks. This is also a mechanic used in Warhammer.
    I like the idea but there's a problem with this concept because of the way raid AE damage is delt. If say you are healing a tank, or raid, and you have to use your own HP to heal... then you're not really healing anyone are you? You will eventually get low on HP and other healers has to heal you as well.

    I do like the idea of an elemental shaman type class with the ability to off-heal without a big impact such as shifting out of a form or something.

    My idea is this. Drop a ward on the ground which will reduce your own damage by say... 50%, but suppose your regular shadow spell hits something for 3000, 50% of that will be converted to a heal which will be cast by the ward as a pulse kind of like the healing stream totem. Obviously 3000 seems a bit much for a pulse, but it will work much like a HoT if the Shadow Hunter is constantly throwing spells.

    This would complement other healers and perhaps make the shadow hunter have a unique type heal where it is a very powerful heal, but is restricted like the shaman's totem system.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Silenteyes's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    I have a feeling their Raid Healing would way Overpowered back when Wild Growth had no Cooldown

  19. #19

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShinyOne
    There are a few things I don't like about your ideas, but I'll only name some.
    Races:
    Horde - Trolls, Goblins
    Alliance - Gnomes, Night Elves

    Goblins were once slaves to Trolls, and as such have had high exposure to their ways. Add to that they've become geniuses and it's no stretch to say Goblins could become Shadow Hunters.

    Voodoo Gnomes have been in the game since as early as at least Zul'Gurub, and have been mentioned a few times since then. In my opinion, the most believable Alliance race would be Gnomes, though I agree with Night Elves for the same reasons as you've said.
    You bring up valid points, and I might have to concede to them... its just ... I HATE Gnomes! Seriously just thinking of them makes me want to rage. But other than that, I shall make the recommended adjustment.


    Cataclysm concepts for your enjoyment:
    T11 shoulders* * ||* * Shadow Hunter Hero Class

  20. #20

    Re: Shadow Hunter Hero Class

    i'd love to see something like this come into the game i'd prolly have to re-roll if they came out with this class wargon shadow hunter hell yeah

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