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  1. #101

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Awe
    This. One of biggest reasons why WoW is so popular is the fact they keep chaning and tweaking all the time. Other MMO out there are/were much more stagnant. I'm now on yet another break from WoW but I know I will be back at least to try Cataclysm. With other games it would probably be over for good.
    Well other RPG games like the original Asheron's Call were far far better than things are handled in wow. For example the Whole contents changed each month, depending on time of the year, snow, green, dry, leaves ... each MONTH there was a content patch with new dungeons, new areas and nothing was announced ahead of time so you actually had to go around and talk to npc's to get clues to what was going on. And you could actualyl influence the game by your actions, like level up monsters if they kill you, etc ... eventually a friend of mine leveled up a crystal that the bad guys neeeded to destroy so much that it became impossible to do especially with hundereds of players defending.

    Wow is past its best time patch wise ... in the start we got many many updated in clsoe time while now it seems to be ok to get expansion end game content by patch 3 Gl with next expansion
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  2. #102
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Can you say, b b b b b beta sooooooon, end of March/Arpil b b b b b beta. Lmao
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  3. #103

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    The only classes/specs that will burn 76 points in one tree, will be the class/spec that only have one tree for the thing(DD/Tank/Healer) they want to be.

    For example, a Warrior speccing Fury/Sub-Arms can be better than pure Fury.
    A Feral druid will probably be better as pure Feral than Feral/Sub-Resto or Sub-Balance.

    Well... we'll see how it plays out.

  4. #104

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    DK's are a whole different story.. This system stucks at them - i think they are going to change specs for Dk's making Frost the tanking spec alone maybe

  5. #105

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    this mastery surely sounds good, we'll see how it will reflect in the game in general

    ... and The Heavens Shall Tremble.
    Lord of Agamaggan - EU.

  6. #106

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Patch Mirrors - > here - > http://www.0daypatch.com

  7. #107

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuko
    The only classes/specs that will burn 76 points in one tree, will be the class/spec that only have one tree for the thing(DD/Tank/Healer) they want to be.

    For example, a Warrior speccing Fury/Sub-Arms can be better than pure Fury.
    A Feral druid will probably be better as pure Feral than Feral/Sub-Resto or Sub-Balance.

    Well... we'll see how it plays out.
    I love how everyone ignores all the followup answers from the blue thread even though several posters linked them just because Boub did not post them yet.

  8. #108

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    This system sounds great!
    There will be 30 different bonuses which will benefit from Mastery.

    So we have choices now like do we want the maximum benefit from one tree or a bit from this and a bit from that.
    Each class will have the choice of 3 bonuses to benefit from.

    I think we'll be doing a lot of thinking in spending point in trees then just check some sheet or examples provided.
    I don't think that there will be something like "THE BEST SET OF TALENTS" for any char in any role.

    I'm not posting very long here, nor am I reading very long here......
    But still my impression at this moment is that wow-players lost the touch with the fun the game should bring.
    It is all about maxing out dps, healing or defense and stuff for tanks..... using sheets others created, expecting them to max out the output of a char in a certain role.

    I'm just concerned with maxing out the fun I have playing this awesome game.

    Blizzard just entered a feature that should give players a chance to have a go at having fun without others telling you that you're not doing enough dps or something of this nature. I hope this works out that way.

  9. #109

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    The mastery System seems lovely.

  10. #110

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Remember when Glyphs were a new and super special awesome idea with various choices to modify your skills and talents? Turned out to be rather boring in the final version.

    The mastery system in its current state seems flawed. I don't see how putting all your points into one tree is suppossed to be fun, at least as a hybrid like a Paladin or Druids. If it's capped or affected by diminished return, I can see a new wave of balance problems with hybrids. Assuming Mastery is capped at e.g. 50/51 points, certain healing/damage classes are balanced around what else they have to pick up from another tree to support their role, while other classes (e.g. Paladins) must be balanced around their primary tree while picking up "free" extra utility from other trees.

    There could also be a scaling problem of the third Mastery boni between specs/classes. E.g. the shown boni of Priests no problems in terms of scaling while Rets with their currently known CD reduction are restricted to certain Mastery caps due to being GCD-locked.

    I'm interested to see what happens to the talent trees, too, especially the skeleton that is called Retribution. It currently has only 66 talent points to spend and many talents should be gone with their current plans:

    Deflection, Benediction, Improved Blessing of Might, Conviction, Sanctity of Battle, Crusade, Two-Hand Weapon Specialization = 26 points gone (Swift and Sanctified Retribution are debateable due to buffing the raid, but they are also horribly boring +% talents)

  11. #111

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    I find it funny how even though this is just a small preview of a system which is still in development (i.e. unfinished) and Blizzard have already stated that the talent trees will also be changing in Cataclysm, people are still totally ready to definitively say "This will gimp (Insert poster's class here)" or vice versa, without actually having any idea what the talents will be, what the stats on gear will be, how stat coefficients will change or how this system will work in conjunction with Path of the Titans (something which we still know very little about. People have said things along the lines of "X class doesn't have enough useful talents to use 72 points in 1 tree" even though they actually have no clue about what will be added to the trees and what will be removed.

    At this stage, there is simply nowhere near enough information to draw any sort of useful conclusions as to what these changes will mean once Cataclysm hits, and even if there was, the pointless, poorly thought out conjecture that people are spouting would be entirely inadequate when it comes to actually working out the benefits/drawbacks to any class/spec combination.

    In my opinion, people need to chill- unless you can actually provide solid numbers and theorycrafting to prove specific points, you have little to no sway over what the developers do so at this stage, you may as well wait and see how it plays out. I think that it could be fairly interesting, in fact, especially considering that it seems much simpler than the old system so class balance, theoretically, should be much better under this system.

  12. #112
    Brewmaster Brittany's Avatar
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    Re: Mastery System Preview

    To the guys who are saying "pure dps will get a damage bonus in all trees, and hybrids will lose dps if they go into another tree"

    Has anyone thought this may be intentional? To keep hybrid damage below pure dps damage. This was always stated to be the plan, and there has been times in Wotlk where hybrids have been really close on the meters.

    I genuinely think that this is intentional. Hybrids who dip into other trees lose a bit of DPS for the extra utility they bring. I think the aim for Cata is probably:

    Top Dps - pure classes
    2nd - Hybrids who spec almost exclusively in dps tree (boomkins, Spriests (won't need disc talents so much if they get meditation and other passive bonuses))
    3rd - Hybrids who spec in different trees.

    Substituting Dps for utility. I think this has always been Blizzards aim for hybrids, and this seems like a good way for them to do it.

  13. #113

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    I honestly dont like that they wanna make it idiotic f. ex. for paladins to wear Leather -- cause appereantly they dont know how to make good plate gear

  14. #114

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    i don't see why people are still hung up on hybrids and pure dps. i like where this is going but this is only a first look at mastery System. i feel it will change many times before launch.

  15. #115

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook
    Remember when Glyphs were a new and super special awesome idea with various choices to modify your skills and talents? Turned out to be rather boring in the final version.

    The mastery system in its current state seems flawed. I don't see how putting all your points into one tree is suppossed to be fun, at least as a hybrid like a Paladin or Druids. If it's capped or affected by diminished return, I can see a new wave of balance problems with hybrids. Assuming Mastery is capped at e.g. 50/51 points, certain healing/damage classes are balanced around what else they have to pick up from another tree to support their role, while other classes (e.g. Paladins) must be balanced around their primary tree while picking up "free" extra utility from other trees.

    There could also be a scaling problem of the third Mastery boni between specs/classes. E.g. the shown boni of Priests no problems in terms of scaling while Rets with their currently known CD reduction are restricted to certain Mastery caps due to being GCD-locked.

    I'm interested to see what happens to the talent trees, too, especially the skeleton that is called Retribution. It currently has only 66 talent points to spend and many talents should be gone with their current plans:

    Deflection, Benediction, Improved Blessing of Might, Conviction, Sanctity of Battle, Crusade, Two-Hand Weapon Specialization = 26 points gone (Swift and Sanctified Retribution are debateable due to buffing the raid, but they are also horribly boring +% talents)
    you keep saying boni. but i just feel like the proper terminology is bonuses.....i dunno not an english maajor nor do i try to correct people...i just giggled when u kept saying boni.

  16. #116

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    I really hope that this system will work as they intend. meaning that there will no longer b "cookie cutter" specs. I use them because they are logically the best throughput. But there are a lot of cool talents I just really wish I could take without losing a lot of DPS.

    for example as Unh DK I want to get antimagic zone and improved unholy presence and corpse explosion and on a pale horse.....but i can't get those because I move into the blood subspec for added dps.

  17. #117

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Shigenari
    I find it funny how even though this is just a small preview of a system which is still in development (i.e. unfinished) and Blizzard have already stated that the talent trees will also be changing in Cataclysm, people are still totally ready to definitively say "This will gimp (Insert poster's class here)" or vice versa, without actually having any idea what the talents will be, what the stats on gear will be, how stat coefficients will change or how this system will work in conjunction with Path of the Titans (something which we still know very little about. People have said things along the lines of "X class doesn't have enough useful talents to use 72 points in 1 tree" even though they actually have no clue about what will be added to the trees and what will be removed.

    At this stage, there is simply nowhere near enough information to draw any sort of useful conclusions as to what these changes will mean once Cataclysm hits, and even if there was, the pointless, poorly thought out conjecture that people are spouting would be entirely inadequate when it comes to actually working out the benefits/drawbacks to any class/spec combination.

    In my opinion, people need to chill- unless you can actually provide solid numbers and theorycrafting to prove specific points, you have little to no sway over what the developers do so at this stage, you may as well wait and see how it plays out. I think that it could be fairly interesting, in fact, especially considering that it seems much simpler than the old system so class balance, theoretically, should be much better under this system.
    I have solid numbers and theorycrafting backing up my QQ. The theorycraft goes like this: Game design is hard. Percentage of times in the history of MMOs and their MUD predecessors that any developer has ever made a giant change to class mechanics and balance and pulled it off without screwing 1 or more classes completely and taking ages to fix them: 0%. Prediction for Cata: one or more classes will get screwed.

  18. #118

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnett
    You sure you are looking at the same talent-tree as the dev? They have already stated that they are reworking all talenttrees. His statement could very well be based off the prototype Cataclysm talenttree while you are looking at the live one.

  19. #119

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    I think what we need to remember is that most everyone who's reading this is still probably playing WoW. That means Blizzard hasn't yet done anything bad enough to this game since release to cause you to quit for good, so chances are they aren't going to. It would also do well to remember that this game is their biggest, most profitable product and that any change made is going to be scrutinized beyond what you can probably even imagine. Their profits are public information, go look that stuff up. Do you really think they would let the developers do anything to make those numbers go anywhere but up? Even if, for some reason, they did manage to screw it up, you and I have the right to stop paying them for their product until they can get it fixed.

    I have confidence that they will do great things for the game's future. Since we don't even have all of the information about the Cataclysm changes yet, it's sort of silly to whine concerns at each other just yet. It's already been said that we don't know what the new talent trees are going to look like, so try to not get bent out of shape over your hybrid specs and mastery bonuses, since even what they have provided here is almost sure to change drastically before the expansion even launches.

    Take a breath, it will be okay.
    I'm a cheerleader priest. What I lack in intellect, I make up for in spirit! \o/

  20. #120

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook
    Remember when Glyphs were a new and super special awesome idea with various choices to modify your skills and talents? Turned out to be rather boring in the final version.
    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I can only assume that there's either been mass amnesia or most of the people in these threads weren't around when Wrath was at this point. A surprising amount of what is being said by the devs today is just a recycle of Wrath design goals or, even better, efforts to undo some of what they did with Wrath (but now likely can't undo).

    The mastery system in its current state seems flawed.
    It seems like a recipe for another two years of laughable "balance". Hey, they can't get this system even close to balanced, so let's completely change the stat system, and while we're at it we'll add three new stats to every tree just to make things really screwy.

    People had better hope the mastery system turns out to be as boring and pointless as Glyphs (Woooo! So many choices! Fortunately most of them sucking, and the ones that don't mostly being surrogate talent points, makes them easy to balance), otherwise FoTM is going to take on a whole new level of meaning as players find new and interesting ways to abuse what sounds today to be an imminently abusable system.

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