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  1. #41
    High Overlord
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    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Blizzard is really teasing with this preview, they hardly gave any examples at all. Extra absorption for disp priests is expected but dull as hell but I like the holy one. The frost DK extra RP generation... eh isn't haste already going to do that? So what, frost DKs get 2 stats that increase how many buttons they can spam in a fight? I am totally sold on giving extra resource generation for non-casters to haste but I think they can do better then this for frost DKs. The question that's really on my mind now though is what on earth could subtlety rogues be getting since I think I'll be playing that spec for pvp in cataclysm.
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  2. #42

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    sounds great, can't wait to see the mastery stat for the other classes.

  3. #43

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkskeleton
    Blizzard is really teasing with this preview, they hardly gave any examples at all. Extra absorption for disp priests is expected but dull as hell but I like the holy one. The frost DK extra RP generation... eh isn't haste already going to do that? So what, frost DKs get 2 stats that increase how many buttons they can spam in a fight? I am totally sold on giving extra resource generation for non-casters to haste but I think they can do better then this for frost DKs. The question that's really on my mind now though is what on earth could subtlety rogues be getting since I think I'll be playing that spec for pvp in cataclysm.
    I believe melee haste only affects, well, melee attacks.
    Haste rating will increase Runic regen (and other stuff, depending on the class) in addition to melee attacks. Kind of like how crit rating currently only affects your chance to crit, but Agility, for Rogues/Hunters, increase AP in addition to chance to crit.

  4. #44

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    i like it, adding another layer of depth while simplifying if you know what i mean.

  5. #45

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    haha PvP will be so much fun now!
    oh wait.. not it wont :-\
    The game isn't even balanced atm so I wonder how long it will take Blizzard to balance out Cataclysm.

    (Y) For a unbalanced PvP YHEEEY!
    "I can understand why gw2 fans are mad, they hyped their game for 2 years.
    Called all other games bad and it still pretty much failed in 2 weeks."

  6. #46

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Doddilus
    easily solved with diminishing returns
    That is actually the plan. Doing blizzcon Blizz stated that there would be a cap or diminishing return on how many mastery points you would get from dropping all points in this. My guess is they will either cap or slow down the points at 51 points. Since for most 51 points is needed in 1 tree.

    Now obvious the main problems atm is as others have said how they will make this work for hybrids and specs that do 2 things (Dks and Feral). But the hybrid bit could easly be solved simple by the fact Blizz want a hybrid dps to be slightly lower than a real dps, and if a hybrid then lose out on an dps increase from having to go into another tree that dont provide dps increases for them, well then they just get some of their lower dps right there.

    I personally cant wait to see what happens with our talents, what we get of new fun tools to play with and what talents are seperated into 2 talents, as im sure there will be several of the talents that currently provide 3-4 effects in 1.

    And while the possiblities for this system not being done currectly are huge due to the large amount of changes this effects, i for one have faith in Blizzard. Im sure it wont be perfect from the start but considering how long WoW have been around and how many of us are still playing it even now, i think we can all agree they must still know something about their game :P

  7. #47

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkskeleton
    Blizzard is really teasing with this preview, they hardly gave any examples at all. Extra absorption for disp priests is expected but dull as hell but I like the holy one. The frost DK extra RP generation... eh isn't haste already going to do that? So what, frost DKs get 2 stats that increase how many buttons they can spam in a fight? I am totally sold on giving extra resource generation for non-casters to haste but I think they can do better then this for frost DKs. The question that's really on my mind now though is what on earth could subtlety rogues be getting since I think I'll be playing that spec for pvp in cataclysm.
    I don't think "interesting" is what they're going for. "Flavor of the spec" is probably a more appropriate description for the third mastery bonus. Disc priests cast bubbles, that's their thing. Holy priests are raid healers, hots are great utility tools for raid healers (I don't see adding extra hots on direct heals being something that's very effective for druids but I wouldn't be surprised if the druid's third mastery bonus was hot related).

    I do wonder how they'll solve the issue of one-tree-only dps hybrids. That might create a "all points in one tree" issue.

  8. #48

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    Additionally, I don't see how they're going to implement the difference between tanking and dpsing in the same tree. It was announced that mastery bonuses would be tied to presences/forms but we don't know how yet.
    I could very likely be completely wrong, but I recall hearing something (maybe just hand-waving) about certain talents in the spec determining the difference, i.e. taking tanking talents would possibly switch mastery bonuses around. Perhaps there'll be a talent in those trees to specifically do that, probably in addition to some tanking utility the talent provides.

  9. #49

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    This is very interesting. Mastery makes sense now and it looks fun. We haven't seen the talent trees but with this change some speccs might be overpowered if not done right. As said in the post this will give players lots of choices between talents and how they want to play or what kind of rotation they want. But it will bring a negative thing aswell, "noobs" will now specc whatever they want and get away with it, as far as they keep pressing buttons :P

    Also about hybrids, eg. cats, will spend some points in resto tree to get much more powerful talents like omen of clarity, rather then choosing talents in feral tree and mastery giving a slight dmg increase. This will keep hybrids lower in dps then pure dps classes to compensate for the buffs and flexibility hybrids bring to raids.
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    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
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    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  10. #50

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    I do wonder how they'll solve the issue of one-tree-only dps hybrids. That might create a "all points in one tree" issue.
    I was thinking they could just make first few tiers of talents very general for hybrids - stat increases, crit/haste increases, those utility talents they want everyone to take could also be placed here.

  11. #51
    Dreadlord Baygon's Avatar
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    Re: Mastery System Preview


    I'm willing to bet the mastery talent for blood will be a passive ArP increase of some kind, whereas the unholy would be either a disease coefficient or an increase in magic damage (I honestly couldn't think of a good one for unholy, those sound kind of silly).

    Additionally, I don't see how they're going to implement the difference between tanking and dpsing in the same tree. It was announced that mastery bonuses would be tied to presences/forms but we don't know how yet.
    ArP is being removed in cata...just reminding you.

    in regards to hybrids i think you may have an idea, changing masteries slightly based on what form/presence/aura/stance your in would be an interesting change
    Unfortunately, until the people at Blizzard take time to quit explaining why they are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong, they are not going to even hear everyone speaking out desperately trying to warn them the ship is sinking.
    the problems driving players from WoW aren't content or the age of the game, the problem is how the game experience and design philosophy are being undermined by Blizzard's hubris and greed.

  12. #52
    Stood in the Fire Praxis's Avatar
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    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrax of the Wind
    Haste rating will increase Runic regen (and other stuff, depending on the class)
    Runic Power does not naturally fill without the use of RP-generating abilities, so haste rating will not increase its generation. Rather, haste will increase the rate at which runes refresh.

    This is interesting. I'm glad to see the Frost mastery bonuses revealed, as I almost exclusively play Frost right now. I do like the idea of adding melee haste through Mastery, because as mentioned in the blue post it would allow for trimming down some of the haste given by Icy Talons itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baygon
    ArP is being removed in cata...just reminding you.
    NO. ArP RATING is being removed. Armor penetration as a concept will still exist and will be provided by other means (talents, Mastery) as has been stated by Blizzard.

  13. #53

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxis
    Runic Power does not naturally fill without the use of RP-generating abilities, so haste rating will not increase its generation. Rather, haste will increase the rate at which runes refresh.

    This is interesting. I'm glad to see the Frost mastery bonuses revealed, as I almost exclusively play Frost right now. I do like the idea of adding melee haste through Mastery, because as mentioned in the blue post it would allow for trimming down some of the haste given by Icy Talons itself.

    NO. ArP RATING is being removed. Armor penetration as a concept will still exist and will be provided by other means (talents, Mastery) as has been stated by Blizzard.
    Oh that's right. Thanks for the correction.


    And Armor Penetration is indeed staying, just not on gear (e.g. Combat Rogues will most likely have Armor Pen for their Mastery).

  14. #54

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by kamilumin
    I could very likely be completely wrong, but I recall hearing something (maybe just hand-waving) about certain talents in the spec determining the difference, i.e. taking tanking talents would possibly switch mastery bonuses around. Perhaps there'll be a talent in those trees to specifically do that, probably in addition to some tanking utility the talent provides.
    That seems to kind of defeat the purpose of the reworked trees though. The idea is that you're now free to spend more points on fun and interesting talents instead of static dps, healing, EH increases, etc.

    I'm thinking the stances just change whatever it is mastery does for you. Frost presence gives you a health increase, Blood/unholy presence provide the damage increase, it's simple, and could potentially give tanks and dps too much ability to change roles without major gear/talent changes but it might work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baygon
    ArP is being removed in cata...just reminding you.

    in regards to hybrids i think you may have an idea, changing masteries slightly based on what form/presence/aura/stance your in would be an interesting change
    ArP is being removed from gear. But there were blue posts stating ArP will remain elsewhere. I'm willing to bet the secondary passive bonus for blood, combat, arms, and maybe fury will be an ArP increase.

  15. #55
    The Lightbringer Gaiwyn's Avatar
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    Re: Mastery System Preview

    So basically, he was reiterating what we already knew. It was good to see some examples, though. Cataclysm is going to give us more possible spec choices, which in turn should make playing any class and role more fun.

  16. #56

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Like the examples, but whats it going to do for rogues...tree 1:more dps, tree 2:more dps, tree 3:more dps... but still hopefully there all interesting changes and it makes disc look more appealing for CAT.

  17. #57

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    i just got blizzard's background downloader
    "Remember, There's no such thing as a stupid question until you ask it"

  18. #58
    Epic! ScorchHellfire's Avatar
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    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Keep in mind that these mastery bonuses will be replacing current talents not adding onto them so everyone will be getting very little increase of benefit from talents (as far as straight increase in role capability) with this system if any at all until they start getting mastery on their gear... you will however be able to get more utility things but those usually aren't used as much anyway so... hopefully Blizzard will buff some of the utility talents as well to make them more useful...

  19. #59

    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Did blizz say they were adding mastery as a stat to gear prior to this updated info? For some reason I assumed it would only come from the number of talent points placed in each tree. I'm kinda thinking this will bring back all the math/spreadsheets they were trying to get rid of by consolidating other gear stats.

  20. #60
    Stood in the Fire Praxis's Avatar
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    Re: Mastery System Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by ScorchHellfire
    Keep in mind that these mastery bonuses will be replacing current talents not adding onto them so everyone will be getting very little increase of benefit from talents (as far as straight increase in role capability) with this system if any at all until they start getting mastery on their gear... you will however be able to get more utility things but those usually aren't used as much anyway so... hopefully Blizzard will buff some of the utility talents as well to make them more useful...
    What? As far as I can tell from everything I've read, Mastery bonuses will be passive effects given for getting talents in a certain tree. They will not replace talents, they will be an added benefit for acquiring talents in each tree.

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