Tanking 1 handers... gone?

[Kelesti]

Well, Blizz did it again with another big kerflop.

Strength. One handers. Currently, there's one spec that drools over the prospect (Frost Death Knights), but... no one else uses them. Period.

But there is a possible outcome of this, in that one-handed weapons will no longer have "tanking" stats on them, which are then shifted onto more of your defensive oriented gear like your shields, armor, trinkets, rings, etc. (for example, the weapon gets Strength/Stam with variations of hit/expertise/mastery?)

I don't know, I just see this as a viable outcome from the mess, where instead of only one spec actually having any use from Strength One handers, Protection Warriors/Paladins will want them too.

What's your take?

*reposted in Warrior forums as well*

[Plague Atheart]

It's possible I wouldn't mind as a pally tank especially if they put more avoidance on shields which makes sense. However blizz might just make 1 hand str dps weapons and 1 hand tank weapons they did before.

[luthe]

sounds exciting. Maybe good threat weapons.

[mypally]

i doubt they will make a 1h dps for DW DK's, so really this is the only way DW dk's will get it imo. Blizzard currently plans to have 1 type of armor that is only useful to 1 spec (gogo healing plate), and if they had a way to get rid of that, im sure they would.

On a related note, i would love to see a ton more tank stuff on shields. When i think of tanks, i think of warriors/pallies with a mega shield deflecting attacks everywhich way. this tank in my head may or may not have an epic weapon, i cant really tell because it doesnt seem to really matter to a tank in my mind.

So basicaly, i say removal of tank weps is a good idea, but if they dont, then im willing to put money that they wont put in a 1h strength weapon, so DK's will either take tank 1h or suck it up and take agi.

[Ronark]

sounds exciting. Maybe good threat weapons.

That helps with the "Tank DPS doesnt scale well" theory.

I mean, any stat on a STR 1 hander will be useful to a tank outside of crit: And dont forget about the ability to Reforge weapons, too.

[Iselian]

My thoughts exactly, Ronark. Increase threat scaling with increasing dps weapons, and as Plague said they can always chalk up some more of the avoidance on shields, or better yet they don't, which reduces overall avoidance; another goal for the future of tanking.

Now the question is, what speeds will the weapons be?

[Ronark]

My thoughts exactly, Ronark. Increase threat scaling with increasing dps weapons, and as Plague said they can always chalk up some more of the avoidance on shields, or better yet they don't, which reduces overall avoidance; another goal for the future of tanking.

Now the question is, what speeds will the weapons be?

2.0 speeds of the like seem good, since they will have average %weapon modifiers, and Frost DKs will already have additional Haste from talents.

[Melonberry]

2.0 speeds of the like seem good, since they will have average %weapon modifiers, and Frost DKs will already have additional Haste from talents.

Except frost DKs want 2.8s.

I am fairly certain it would be simple to make tanks work with 2.5+ speed weapons though.

[luthe]

Except frost DKs want 2.8s.

I am fairly certain it would be simple to make tanks work with 2.5+ speed weapons though.

Paladin's already do insane amounts more threat as our weapon speed increases, even on a tanking weapon. Just the extra seal of corruption damage (since so little of our threat is white swing, the extra Holy damage from SoCorr due to a slow weapon) i think it equates to something like 80-100 TPS per .1 slower of swing speed. If we're going from 1.6 -> 2.6 we're looking at 1000 TPS increase right there.

Now add in dps stats and we're golden ^^

[Offhand]

Slow weapons are almost universally better for dps/threat when it comes to the strength based classes (I could be wrong about prot warriors though). The change would, at worst, be a return to our TBC era weapon choices. Using spellpower dps weapons was a massive gain in threat back then.

There's the possible problem of stats like haste/crit scaling terribly for tanks like they have in the past. There would need to be an item that was specifically itemized "for tanking". Like DK tanks claiming one two hander to be the "tanking stick" every tier.

[Nillo]

I could be wrong about prot warriors though

I'm pretty sure, that with the changes to devastate, warriors gain a lot of dps as well, when using a slow weapon.

[Sno]

i don't use a Tanking 1 hander for tanking, i got enough stats from my gear to cover the loss.... where's the problem?

[Smolderthorn]

2.0 speeds of the like seem good, since they will have average %weapon modifiers, and Frost DKs will already have additional Haste from talents.

However, a Death Knight benefits more from slower weapons due to the higher top damage. This is due to the fact that the majority of threat, comes from Obliterate and Rune Strike. In order to have these hitting high, the weapons need to be slower. This is also why Sigil of Awareness is a very very good frost oriented sigil.

[Offhand]

I'm pretty sure, that with the changes to devastate, warriors gain a lot of dps as well, when using a slow weapon.

Yes, but I don;t know how that measures up against heroic strike have a damage coefficient and static threat number that's independent of weapon speed (i.e. a plus for fast weapons).

[Smolderthorn]

One great example of this sort of weapons, is Broken Promise. It's slow, high damage and good avoidance. However the difficulty obtaining it, and the lack of stats compared to DPS weapons.

Yes, but I don;t know how that measures up against heroic strike have a damage coefficient and static threat number that's independent of weapon speed (i.e. a plus for fast weapons).

Given, our devastate and cleave damage will be higher on targets. However the lack of speed may result in less Heroic strikes. In general you can count that with a quick weapon you do two cleaves, or heroic strikes, while with a slow one you do one bigger one. However this margin in my eyes is a bit low, thus I prefer 2 slightly smaller hits, which I can spread to other targets aswell.

[Lark]

If you operate under somesuch delusion that Blizzard actually thinks about itemization in terms of number of targeted classes one can swiftly look at the Icecrown Citadel loot table and stare firmly at the unreal number of daggers in the zone. There is one class that effectively uses daggers in pve and even then its a real struggle to put them all to use. I would be impressed if you could find me someone that actually looted Bloodsipper on their main, for example.

I'm not saying your logic is fundamentally wrong on any level - in fact, what you're saying makes more than reasonable sense - but this sort of logic hasn't played out in five years of this game. I preclude early vanilla itemization as much of anything, since it looks like someone possessed of a righteous nasty mental disorder designed those items.

That helps with the "Tank DPS doesnt scale well" theory.

That's more or less keyed to the fundamental error in scaling entirely off one stat while forcing a split to three defensive stats on each item. You can't really fix that by using a more aggressive weapon - I mean, try it in ICC25 and see how it goes.

[Astray]

DKs: Want slowest weapons possible
Paladin: slow = better (Seal damage), but in fact we dont care that much
Warriors: fast = more HS, slow = bigger devastate

The ones that want fast weapons are warriors and since their rage system will change, theres a good chance that tank weapons will be slow in cataclysm.

[Needonboots]

I'm using Last Word at the moment, that has no actual defense stats on it, but hits like a train compared to my old weapon.


And I love it

[Styria]

Strength. One handers. Currently, there's one spec that drools over the prospect (Frost Death Knights), but... no one else uses them. Period.

You mean like spellpower plate? which is only used by holy pallies?