High or Low

[barefootdan]

Boomkin dps seems to be all over the place. Ive heard being top 3 always, or bottom of the charts. On *average* where do boomkins usually land for dps? is it a skill thing or mainly just the RNG part of the class that depicts the dps? Im level 74 and im about 2kdps in instances, its just hard to believe they are bottom of the charts at 80

[Chimaria]

This is being said by a non boomkin but... Its low until you get 4p, where then you become competitive.

[Kezic]

im a healer my offspec is boomkin though and i swich for many fights like proff putricide because healing isn't an issue at all but dps can be. that said i am still using my teir 9 4 piece becaues i havn't had enough emblems for 2 pieces of t10 (i have one so far) after getting all the resto badge gear i needed. my dps is almost always around 5.5k dps which is bottom of the charts. the other boomkin in my guild has about the same items as i do for non tier pieces but has 4 pieces of boomkin t10 and he always pulls top 5 on charts now, although i dont remember his dps.

[Cerelli]

on a pure theoretical basis, moonkins are on the low side of the damage spectrum. But in reality it depends on the player/raid/boss/gear. Put a great player behind a moonkin in a mediocre raid and they will be more competitive. Put that same great player in with 24 other players of similar skill/gear and they will be falling behind slightly.

[barefootdan]

yeah im just having trouble deciding on kitty or boomkin. I like the fact that boomkin is ranged since my main is a DK, but the dps behind feral seems to blow boomkin away.. and the rotation of feral may keep me awake.

[Dhurn]

Moonkin tend to be toward the low end of the charts when grouping with similarly geared/skilled dps. My moonkin generally does between 7.2 and 7.4k for a standstill fight (2 pc t10, 251/264 gear) with others in my guild generally in the 8-10k range. They make up for it with incredible raid utility though (3 hit, 3 haste, 5 crit, brez) if you don't have a ret paladin/spriest/ele sham. Their utility especially shines in 10 mans because they fulfill so many buffs from just one player.

[Ormula]

http://www.stratfu.com/kamigami/N_Pr...Putricide.html

Have fun.

[Kezic]

Moonkin tend to be toward the low end of the charts when grouping with similarly geared/skilled dps. My moonkin generally does between 7.2 and 7.4k for a standstill fight (2 pc t10, 251/264 gear) with others in my guild generally in the 8-10k range. They make up for it with incredible raid utility though (3 hit, 3 haste, 5 crit, brez) if you don't have a ret paladin/spriest/ele sham. Their utility especially shines in 10 mans because they fulfill so many buffs from just one player.

you forgot one ability is not unique but it lets ur DK's go blood for hysterai and ups locks damage cause they dont need to put up curse of elements. earth and moon is great raid utility. also get 4 pc t10 and ur dps will jump up like 1.2k ez if u have decent crit

[barefootdan]

you forgot one ability is not unique but it lets ur DK's go blood for hysterai and ups locks damage cause they dont need to put up curse of elements. earth and moon is great raid utility. also get 4 pc t10 and ur dps will jump up like 1.2k ez if u have decent crit

so are you saying once boomkins get geared, thats when they shine?

[Aabrahm]

Boomkins are experiencing a few scaling issues with gear, in fact I'd say at top levels of gear is where you start to see us slumping. At top tiers of gear, haste and crit lose value (not altogether) for us. This is why you won't see very many of us topping meters in non-gimmick fights. However a Boomkin in toc gear equaled with everyone else is only getting beaten by good mages and rogues.

[barefootdan]

Boomkins are experiencing a few scaling issues with gear, in fact I'd say at top levels of gear is where you start to see us slumping. At top tiers of gear, haste and crit lose value (not altogether) for us. This is why you won't see very many of us topping meters in non-gimmick fights. However a Boomkin in toc gear equaled with everyone else is only getting beaten by good mages and rogues.

arent they trying to fix this in 3.3.3? i thought i read something about them buffing some stuff

[Dhurn]

Nice changes to buff moonkin dps IMO (possibly overpowered) would be to give moonkin dot a chance to crit by default (change 2pc t9 to a flat moonfire dot increase, maybe 10-20%) and/or make wrath's base speed 2.5 (2.0 talented), increase the coefficient and base damage, and make haste more valuable at higher levels for something other than starfire.

[Deleted]

I feel that there is a bit too much negativity on moonkins. It is true, some fights take a bigger toll on us compared to other casters. But once thats said, there is generally no reason to see moonkins in the core of the DPS group - you know, every raid group has a few people that are way ahead, and then we have a core group of the rest of DPS. As long as we - or any class, for that matter - fall within that core, then thats fine.

Forget DPS. It is not a way to measure your raid. Look at the individuals performance compared to the rest of the raid. If everybody is equally geared, there shouldn't be too many big leaps in the differences of damage done on most fights, unless someone is being unfairly treated, or needs to research their class a bit.

On *average*, moonkins would be smack in the core of your DPS team.

[Kezic]

arent they trying to fix this in 3.3.3? i thought i read something about them buffing some stuff

A 10x on the spell power's effect on starfall isn't fixing the issue its just compensating for the fact that their dps isn't as high as everything else untill the top teir level. however once it gets this high they have issues with gear scaling that still are not fixed.

[Aabrahm]

Quieth, I can tell you and I would get along. You will never see me complaining about where we are. Indeed, the truth is, a well-performing moonkin will be placing well on dps charts. Not the TOP, but well. What Quieth says about performance is very true as well. I will take a boomkin at 7-8k dps over a 10k+ rogue or mage that can't move out of void zones or properly place an Ice Block when targeted by a frost beacon.

Then there's the "hybrid tax." Personally, I believe we are not experiencing any hybrid tax. Unless you wanna call Eclipse Taxing which I do. not the idea, or the spell, but it's institution. never have I seen 3 talent points be worth so much dps. This brings me to the "Starfall buff." It is another quick fix, designed to alleviate scaling issues due entirely to the Eclipse mechanic/talents.

TL;DR - Any good moonkin is going to be doing"great deepz" if dps is all you care about, roll a rogue or mage. If you love the Boomkin class, know this: Bllizzard does not hate us. They have intended to create a unique class, with unique spells. What they did in BC was make the class viable. By the time wrath came we weren't just taken for "utility," now in WOTLK we are actually not going oom, we are actually welcomed in pugs, and you can find top raid guilds with more than one boomkin in their 25 mans.

[Deleted]

A 10x on the spell power's effect on starfall isn't fixing the issue its just compensating for the fact that their dps isn't as high as everything else untill the top teir level. however once it gets this high they have issues with gear scaling that still are not fixed.

Our scaling is fine. Fact is, languish probably does a lot to compensate our scaling issues. The starfall buff is going to increase our DPS by some 500+ DPS, and while other classes are getting buffs too, this will put us more in line.

Quieth, I can tell you and I would get along. You will never see me complaining about where we are. Indeed, the truth is, a well-performing moonkin will be placing well on dps charts. Not the TOP, but well. What Quieth says about performance is very true as well. I will take a boomkin at 7-8k dps over a 10k+ rogue or mage that can't move out of void zones or properly place an Ice Block when targeted by a frost beacon.

Then there's the "hybrid tax." Personally, I believe we are not experiencing any hybrid tax. Unless you wanna call Eclipse Taxing which I do. not the idea, or the spell, but it's institution. never have I seen 3 talent points be worth so much dps. This brings me to the "Starfall buff." It is another quick fix, designed to alleviate scaling issues due entirely to the Eclipse mechanic/talents.

TL;DR - Any good moonkin is going to be doing"great deepz" if dps is all you care about, roll a rogue or mage. If you love the Boomkin class, know this: Bllizzard does not hate us. They have intended to create a unique class, with unique spells. What they did in BC was make the class viable. By the time wrath came we weren't just taken for "utility," now in WOTLK we are actually not going oom, we are actually welcomed in pugs, and you can find top raid guilds with more than one boomkin in their 25 mans.

Your TL;DR is the same length as your actual post :P Also, its "Qieth". There's no U in Qieth :P

Hybrid tax is bogus. There is no such thing. You don't see death knights or feral druids living with a tax. It is simply balancing issues that will, most likely, be resolved in the years to come. We have still come quite a long way since balance in vanilla.

[Vespian]

Your TL;DR is the same length as your actual post :P Also, its "Qieth". There's no U in Qieth :P

Hybrid tax is bogus. There is no such thing. You don't see death knights or feral druids living with a tax. It is simply balancing issues that will, most likely, be resolved in the years to come. We have still come quite a long way since balance in vanilla.

Nice, he says he agrees with you and you mock him for it /gg

Hybrid Tax is very much not bogus. I could line up the quotes from Blizzard that say "[class=hybrid==less dps==moar raid utility]". Of course, they always mix such a sentence with the word "competative".

[Deleted]

Oh lighten up, would you?

Hybrid tax can only be a reality if it applied to all hybrids. And seeing as the only NON hybrids in the game are hunters, rogues, mages and warlocks, you are looking at six classes that should all have a tax. Thats not the case.

Hybrid tax doesn't work in a practical matter either. Sure, i "can" switch out to heal, but it is usually not a very beneficial choice to make. Most of the time, people aren't "better off" just because i am in the group and i "can" do something, because most of the time, this is not nessecary. And for all of those times, all we bring is damage, and no "hybrid abilities". If we are not acting hybrids, then we should not be seen as hybrids.

The only sense where we can use hybrids is that we have the *option* to switch to another spec all together. But it is unfair to say that we get more classes in one, so we shouldn't have the same options as the pures. Sure, i only leveled one character, and the mage will have to level four to have the same options as me. But leveling isn't difficult, but learning a class, new spec and playstyle, gathering gear is. I can't "just" switch to bear form and tank ICC. So in this regard, "hybrids" are irrelevant as well.

Once you show me that every hybrid class is subject to hybrid tax, then I will agree that it exist.

[Raissmo]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...77330431&sid=1

[Deleted]

This is actualy kinda offtopic, but about the strange hybrid = less dps = moar raid utility formula I [I]totaly disagree. I know, some
on these forums don't like ensidia, but I belive I saw some kind of a log from their fights in icc10 HM. Tun (feral dps) did 13.4k dps. i find that impressive. IMHO, Druids can be better melee dps than rogues, better spellcasters than Mage/lock, better healers than priest (maybe not on singletarget, but we pwn priest big time on raidhealing. I'm tank myself and I love it. Ofc I can't realy say "I'm the best tank", but I have tanked alot of raids IMO pretty succesful.

And, hybrids actualy benefits most from dualspecc just my 2 cents