Chains of Ice needs diminishing returns

[Sellest]

I was just in a WSG and got chained spammed with chains of ice while running with the flag 15 times in a row.

Get a paladin to HoF you. CC DK. Win

[Deleted]

Death Runes .....
Why do you guys allways act like they don't excist?
Not that i care for being chained chained since i play a feral druid and can shift out with ease but allways see DK's do that ^^

Okay, you get 2 extra runes per 20 seconds. Recalc the above:

To keep it at 95% forever would require:
2 6 casts every 10 20 sec, 1 sec uptime per cast
20 30% uptime per DK
5 4 DKs for 100% uptime with absolutely perfect execution with about half a second to press the key.
If you have FIVE FOUR FUCKING ENEMIES on you, you SHOULD lose.

[Ridzz]

even with death runes tho he can still only do it so much because hes gonna have to keep the death runes coming somehow, he cant spam chainz forever so he really can only do an average of 2 per 10 secs, and since his dmg is cut prob close to half in that time thru rune wastage it'll take him a while
and if u have multiple well thatz just badluck plain and simple

[Comby]

Clueless people are clueless. Spamming Chains of Ice is a defensive ability, and renders the dk useless for the remainder of the rune cooldowns.

[Samin]

Death Runes .....
Why do you guys allways act like they don't excist?
Not that i care for being chained chained since i play a feral druid and can shift out with ease but allways see DK's do that ^^

But you still can't spam CoI as a single DK and if you have more than one DK on you, of course you're fucked.

Crippling poison is a permanent passive slow that allows the rogue to do maximum dps at the same time.

No. Maximum dps would be instant or deadly poison instead of crippling. It's probably a similiar dps loss like a dk without frost runes (and death runes..well this will probably end in even more damage loss) or rage loss from hamstring.. and so on.

[Somerandomhobo]

Okay, you get 2 extra runes per 20 seconds. Recalc the above:

To keep it at 95% forever would require:
2 6 casts every 10 20 sec, 1 sec uptime per cast
20 30% uptime per DK
5 4 DKs for 100% uptime with absolutely perfect execution with about half a second to press the key.
If you have FIVE FOUR FUCKING ENEMIES on you, you SHOULD lose.

Your forgot blood tap and Empowered rune weapon HERP DERP

In all seriousness, no. Why ? pretty much every reason stated above, and below/next billion pages (this will turn into a 150 page bitch fest).

[Ridzz]

Your forgot blood tap and Empowered rune weapon HERP DERP

In all seriousness, no.

now ur just getting pedantic :P

[ta5k1n]

here is the math
coi is %95 root. 2 frost runes refreshes in 10 seconds so a deathknight can spam it effectively evey 5 seconds this means (0.95+0.85+0.75+0.65+0.55)/5 = 75% slow which cannot compareable to hamstring/nerfed crippling poison but with a cost of reduce damage. if there is two deathknight on a person ie fc, coi can be spammed every 2.5 seconds --> (0.95+0.90+0.85+0.80+0.75)/5 = %85 root all the time.



move speed at hamstring (1-0.5) /
move speed at coi (1-0.75) = 2 two times effective at snaring than hamstring

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

Chains of Ice!

How to defend yourself:

-Dispel it
-Cast an immunity
-Use your trinket
-Dispel it
-Spell reflect it
-Use some points on snare time reducing talents
-Blink away / Ice Block
-Disengage
-Grounding Totem
-Cloak it
-Hand of Freedom
-Shapeshift out of it
-Use a combination of all of the above
-Have a friend help you
-Also, dispel it




How casting it cripples DKs:

-Waste 1 of 2 frost runes.
-One less frost rune equals less damage therefore less pressure
-Two less frost runes means heavy nuke is gone (Obliterate, Scourge Strike, Death Strike, Howling Blast)
-Casting Blood Tap equals less damage (should be used for main attack/defensive move)
-Casting Empower Rune Weapon makes you a bad; it should be used as a finisher/defensive move



Why DKs "spam" it:

-To get Frost Fever on target
-To keep you close just like Hamstring, Crippling Poison.
-Melee classes have a hard time killing anything that is not within 5 yards.
-Icy Touch is not good for applying Frost Fever in PvP.



Why you cry:

-Because it keeps you from moving for JUST A SECOND.
-Because it keeps you from moving for JUST TWO SECONDS (if cast twice)
-Because a bad DK popped everything to keep you in place, crippling himself.
-Because more than one DK cast it on you


Seriously, a melee class needs a snare. And don't come talking about Paladins who don't have a snare, I do agree they need one, though less powerful than say Hamstring (due to Hand of Freedom and Pursuit of Justice)

[Brince]

Give us a decent burst and i'll be fine with coh with diminishing returns.
Btw warriors hamstring and rogues crippling poison don't have dr.

[Lusis]

Chains of Ice!

How to defend yourself:

-Dispel it
-Cast an immunity
-Use your trinket
-Dispel it
-Spell reflect it
-Use some points on snare time reducing talents
-Blink away / Ice Block
-Disengage
-Grounding Totem
-Cloak it
-Hand of Freedom
-Shapeshift out of it
-Use a combination of all of the above
-Have an friend help you
-Also, dispel it




How casting it cripples DKs:

-Waste 1 of 2 frost runes.
-One less frost rune equals less damage therefore less pressure
-Two less frost runes means heavy nuke is gone (Obliterate, Scourge Strike, Death Strike, Howling Blast)
-Casting Blood Tap equals less damage (should be used for main attack/defensive move)
-Casting Empower Rune Weapon makes you a bad; it should be used as a finisher/defensive move



Why DKs "spam" it:

-To get Frost Fever on target
-To keep you close just like Hamstring, Crippling Poison.
-Melee classes have a hard time killing anything that is not within 5 yards.
-Icy Touch is not good for applying Frost Fever in PvP.



Why you cry:

-Because it keeps you from moving for JUST A SECOND.
-Because it keeps you from moving for JUST TWO SECONDS (if cast twice)
-Because a bad DK popped everything to keep you in place, crippling himself.
-Because more than one DK cast it on you


Seriously, a melee class needs a snare. And don't come talking about Paladins who don't have a snare, I do agree they need one, though less powerful than say Hamstring (due to Hand of Freedom and Pursuit of Justice)

I had 2 other healers with me and don't know how many Dks there was but I kept shapeshifting over and over again non stop before I got a 1/3 away across the field I had the rest if the horde team on us not a chance to break away. every other form of CC either has a long CD or diminishing returns you can't have 5 druid spaming cyclone on the same target or rooting one down you get 3 tries each then you have to wait 15 secs before you can do it again why shouldn't it be that was for Dks?

As I said before.

[Baubles]

just give it a cast time, problem solved

[Asaron]

but I kept shapeshifting over and over again non stop before I got a 1/3 away across the field

Shape shifting needs dimishing returns. Or a 10 second cooldown.

Honestly I'd have some sympathy for the request if you weren't a druid, but "I want to be an unstoppable flag runner" isn't a cause I can get behind.

[Somerandomhobo]

Chains of Ice!

How to defend yourself:

-Dispel it
-Cast an immunity
-Use your trinket
-Dispel it
-Spell reflect it
-Use some points on snare time reducing talents
-Blink away / Ice Block
-Disengage
-Grounding Totem
-Cloak it
-Hand of Freedom
-Shapeshift out of it
-Use a combination of all of the above
-Have an friend help you
-Also, dispel it




How casting it cripples DKs:

-Waste 1 of 2 frost runes.
-One less frost rune equals less damage therefore less pressure
-Two less frost runes means heavy nuke is gone (Obliterate, Scourge Strike, Death Strike, Howling Blast)
-Casting Blood Tap equals less damage (should be used for main attack/defensive move)
-Casting Empower Rune Weapon makes you a bad; it should be used as a finisher/defensive move



Why DKs "spam" it:

-To get Frost Fever on target
-To keep you close just like Hamstring, Crippling Poison.
-Melee classes have a hard time killing anything that is not within 5 yards.
-Icy Touch is not good for applying Frost Fever in PvP.



Why you cry:

-Because it keeps you from moving for JUST A SECOND.
-Because it keeps you from moving for JUST TWO SECONDS (if cast twice)
-Because a bad DK popped everything to keep you in place, crippling himself.
-Because more than one DK cast it on you


Seriously, a melee class needs a snare. And don't come talking about Paladins who don't have a snare, I do agree they need one, though less powerful than say Hamstring (due to Hand of Freedom and Pursuit of Justice)

Here of this thread, and all threads about chains

[ta5k1n]

It takes 2 seconds of CoI uptime for the target to be able to move faster than 75% speed. Since the target spends 8 seconds moving faster than 75%, your maths is obviously flawed.

If you spam CoI every 5 seconds, not only does the DK dps go to crap, it is still 6 seconds out of 10 where the target moves faster than 75%.

average value is something contains lower and higher values than calculated result. if im not mistaken at " a dk can cast 2 coi every 10 sec rest is correct. you should check your math. If you cast coi every 5 secs its snare effect resets fyi .

[Lusis]

Shape shifting needs dimishing returns. Or a 10 second cooldown.

Honestly I'd have some sympathy for the request if you weren't a druid, but "I want to be an unstoppable flag runner" isn't a cause I can get behind.

Then you need to look at from the Druid side of things how many offensive instant cast roots do I have? sure I can switch to travel form to catch up to them but to get close enough to cast it on them before they get away they just use thier instant cast CC to stop me. even it was one DK trying to stop me by the time I break away to get some distance on them bam! the just DG me back. Oh I do have bear charge and bash but thats a 1 min CD.

[Vindicatu]

Stop crying about it.
If you're Coi ' ed 5 times or more in a row , it's because there are multiple enemies on you, and you actually should not be able to shapeshift and run across WSG with a clear sprint.
You are basically asking for your nonstop shapeshifting to make you pop out of every root/snare.....
How about a DR on shapeshifting, you of all classes have the least to QQ about.
In no way Coi is OP compared with other roots/snares from other classes.

[Deleted]

Idiotic threads about nerfing abilities for the sake of pvp leetness need diminishing returns.

[Sibelius]

I think OP doesn't understand the difference between "slow" and "root" and that's why he is upset..

[Deleted]

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51626

So a rogue having this spell talented is going to gimp his dps in the same way a dk would by apparently spamming COI on a target?

I dont see anyone else moaning about this talent and having a 70% snare up on anyone for 100% of the time losing zero dps.

Get over it, COI is fine. And to add to that, hamstring can also be spammed on anything and hardly lose dps at all.