SP better then Int, or equal to it?

[Cornelis83]

A group of holydins suddenly claimed that SP > Int and FoL is the main healing ability. They seems to reach 13k healings with FoL easily and claim to be able to heal festergut/BQ and such on 25 man easily. I doubt this but somehow I cant rejected this with numbers. A while ago I had to heal for a few weeks cause the raid was slacking healers. I dont like holy healing but it was either that or no raid. In meanwhile we got enough healers again so I am back to tanking/dpsing and that means I cant test the statement SP > Int either or at least, SP can do it too.

So I just wonder: is it true? Can you heal as well with gemming SP and spamming FoL? I think you cant and I think those people are lifting along with the other healers. But I could be wrong ofc.

This is the article where it is about:

http://www.holypaladin.net/index.php...r-or-intellect

Even though the article is nearly one year old, it still got fresh comments and I must say I also agree with the comment of Stubb of march the 10th.

[Elamahpla]

So who is going to heal the tanks during Festergut when he's at full growth? O.O

[Forcelink]

FoL has never been equal to int for GOOD holy healing. HL has always been our main healing spell. Harder, only slightly longer cast time. Thats why paladins stack int, due to the high mana cost,to sustain it.

About the website:The guy there doesnt know his stuff. He claims that crit beats int at similar ilvls. WRONG.

[Biteyou]

Well, the fact that it's nearly one year old makes it whatever for starters.

And two, it can equal out to what you prefer as far as playstyle goes. I've been good FoL healing pallys do amazing, but they're obviously going to lack somewhere. HL and stacking int, as far as I'm concerned, is better overall for hardmodes.

[Firecrest]

I’ve noticed an amusing trend with FoL Pallies. Almost all of them that I’ve seen have been the only Holy Pally in their raids. Right off the bat, this means they have no one to correct them of bad practices. But more telling that that is when they produce logs of their amazing healing, it almost always turns out that they are, one, sniping a ton of heals from other healers (most notably the Druids) and, two, have weaseled their way into Judging Light (often despite the fact there is a Prot and/or Ret that could do it better). There are also almost always preventable tank deaths in their logs as well.

If you are a Holy Pally, your priority is to keep up the tanks. This is doubly true if you’re the only Holy Pally. FoL just can’t do that. If you want to be a raid healer, reroll Shaman or Druid. If you want to drop mammoth healing bombs and remove tank death concerns from your raid, then be a Pally.

I haven’t seen anyone put forth a really good argument for it, but I would not be adverse to a discussion about one FoL build and one HL build in a raid. This would require someone convincing me that a FoL build has raid healing capability near to that of other raid healing classes though.

[Theholypally]

In short, no its not true.

FoL isnt nearly as effective, and if they are telling you they are healing Festergut 25 tanks at FULL growth using Flash of Light, they are lieing out of their ass.

[patrixxx]

Simple answer is no.

Also at higher gear levels, you should be able to support all your spells while continuing to stack int. Properly placed holy shocks and FoL's can be raid savers, but for tank healing not so much. Luckily the other healers in my guild are pretty good, so I get the chance to pretend to be a FoL spammer and gimp the druid's healing for awhile.

[Ryme]

They're simply putting unnecessary strain on other healers to help keep the tank up. Don't do it.

[Cornelis83]

Well, glad to see we are on one line here I was actually fishing to the person who actually could show numbers beating where he is better then a holy light spamming paladin but so far I didnt caught anything and I am actually happy with that

[Obsession]

That was from Naxx, when it was true.

http://www.holypaladin.net/index.php...-holy-paladins -- basically he says that it is an option now.

[fizikz]

That was from Naxx, when it was true.

http://www.holypaladin.net/index.php...-holy-paladins -- basically he says that it is an option now.

this, basically, you can spec/gear/glyph for FoL build or HL build and the play styles are different. going the way of the FoL build does not mean that you never use HL. This is what most HL pallies don't understand, or are misinformed of, leading to a lot of "FOL BUILD NEVAR WORKS U R DUMB IF U BELIEV IT OR TRY IT"

thing is, just because pally healing works one way for you, and works another way for someone else, does NOT make them wrong. if their raid comp or healer setup works with a FoL pally, who are you to say "NO YOU HAVE TO DO IT MY WAY" ? It's not your place nor will it ever be to tell people completely unrelated to your guild/raids and probably even servers how to spec and play their characters.

[Crawnick]

I play somewhat this style more so the mix of INT and SP. Where I have over 4k in a raid(guy in the link you showed had like 2127 so that had to be hella old). And the bonus flash of light power is nice but the holy light scale is definitely there. You should never reach a point that all your CDs and Divine Plea don't bring you back to a solid 10k less than your max mana buffed. I stick around 36k with 4100-4200 sp and I love the way it works out as casting Holy Light is never a problem regardless of how much I need to. Hell I use holy shock a lot.

[Guitarn]

going the way of the FoL build does not mean that you never use HL. This is what most HL pallies don't understand

It seems to me that you'd be just trying to snipe small heals with FoL instead of spamming it on a tank with that kind of mindset.

From there, it follows that trying to snipe heals is not a useful/efficient practice. That would make it more useful to try to stick on the tank, meaning you'd use more HL's, meaning you'd wish you'd geared correctly so that you could spam HL.

---

The link about two posts up comes out and says FoL is gimp for a paladin's most important healing assignment: tank healing.

The guy goes on to say that you need "great environmental awareness", which translates into "the ability to heal someone before another healer's chain heal/hots tick on it.

He even directly says "The strength of a Flash of Light build is that it distributes the responsibility of tank healing over many different healers". That is to say, instead of letting raid healers raid heal and tank healers tank heal, let's fudge it the ass-backwards way. Let's make raid healers have to cover the job you're usually assigned to do.

Don't do it. Just don't.

[Crookd]

smaller, maybe bit offtopic note: As soon as ICC buff starts increasing, giving ''no'' buff at all to HL playstyle and in the same time making FOL more equal with huge HLs, with buff giving ie 15% healing, what i mean is, FOL < HL difference is not same as SHIT < Godly.

Difference is small atm, atleast in normal content, i dont have experience in HC ICC, but being able to heal most icc normals effectively (altho in different way than HL) doesnt make spec total crap, try to think outside of the box.

Changed into SP gemming 2 weeks ago and its different playstyle, not worse, not better, just different, for normal content player.

People need to open their eyes abit, atleast being more open minded for those people who are willing to try something different. And not always giving strict ''NO TY UR PLAYER BAD RLY + GS LINK'' answers.

[Ryme]

Hmm, reports say FoL crits for 12k, I'd imagine less but let's take this number.

30% increase to healing done means 15.6k FoL crits.

Not bad... With the SS HoT ticking for a fair bit there, I'd go so far as to call it viable.

[Alenko]

smaller, maybe bit offtopic note: As soon as ICC buff starts increasing, giving ''no'' buff at all to HL playstyle and in the same time making FOL more equal with huge HLs, with buff giving ie 15% healing, what i mean is, FOL < HL difference is not same as SHIT < Godly.

Difference is small atm, atleast in normal content, i dont have experience in HC ICC, but being able to heal most icc normals effectively (altho in different way than HL) doesnt make spec total crap, try to think outside of the box.

Changed into SP gemming 2 weeks ago and its different playstyle, not worse, not better, just different, for normal content player.

People need to open their eyes abit, atleast being more open minded for those people who are willing to try something different. And not always giving strict ''NO TY UR PLAYER BAD RLY + GS LINK'' answers.

no thank you, you're a bad player, no really. also with 3 tanks saber lash on marrowgar hits for 30k+ each tank, fol isn't gonig to heal through that + boss melee + any slight dmg taken from fire, and thats even if you were to include the 30%. now move to festergut. 2 spores are out 3rd is coming, yes FoL may have been nice pre 1 spore but now 90% (exaggeration probably, but exageration for emphasis) of the dmg is on tanks with 3rd spore out and FoL wont cut it. BQL is a semi decent fight for FoL in 10 man I personally don't know in 25 man what its like. oh and I can use FoL gemmed Int and still hit 12k, you don't need to gem sp to use fol, but to use HL effectively you need more int.

also a zone buff isn't a substantial enough of an arguement for say FoL is better than int/HL build for tank healing, cause there are zones that don't have said buff. and guess what you aren't there to heal the raid anyway, thats the 2 resto druids' holy priest's and resto shaman's job.

[Crookd]

Alenko, basic tunnel vision problem. Wasnt problem on Fester Goat in either 10 or 25 as only paladin. sorry. try it and give some serious facts, it fits my playstyle, which is in other words from people like you ''being shit player'', but I also feel bit stupid when overhealing for 5-10k with most heals, just because it happens to be BEST way to heal in this game

EDIT: Pretty obvious that Im not using 100% of time casting FoL, on spots that you had in your festergoat example, there is obviously going to be HL or two, keep in mind that this is forum for casuals. If you comments are somewhat pro and elite, please understand that we are in MMO champion forums and here, here we really can consider FOL as really viable spec since 80% people in here are casual normal mode raiders and casual normal mode ideas.

[antidan]

Alenko, basic tunnel vision problem. Wasnt problem on Fester Goat in either 10 or 25 as only paladin. sorry. try it and give some serious facts, it fits my playstyle, which is in other words from people like you ''being shit player'', but I also feel bit stupid when overhealing for 5-10k with most heals, just because it happens to be BEST way to heal in this game

EDIT: Pretty obvious that Im not using 100% of time casting FoL, on spots that you had in your festergoat example, there is obviously going to be HL or two, keep in mind that this is forum for casuals. If you comments are somewhat pro and elite, please understand that we are in MMO champion forums and here, here we really can consider FOL as really viable spec since 80% people in here are casual normal mode raiders and casual normal mode ideas.

Just because something can work doesn't mean you should do it.

You can beat all ICC normal modes with your mages as frost, but you shouldn't do it.

FOL spec isn't that bad, but particularly if you are the sole holy paladin in your raid you should not do it. I have seen it be used effectively for a second paladin, who basically serves as a very powerful hot on whoever his Beacon target is.

[Dantrag]

please understand that we are in MMO champion forums and here, here we really can consider FOL as really viable spec since 80% people in here are casual normal mode raiders and casual normal mode ideas.

Antidan answered first part of your post, i'll try to answer this part.

wtf da hell 'we are casuals so we can do it wrong'-thing? if you do it right, you can heal casual raids but you can be invited to good guild and became pro. if you do it wrong, you can heal casual raids and you will never pass through casual raids.
what's the thing of all of this 'i am not paragon raider' or 'i am not an Ensidia mage' or 'i am not hardcore' thing? do peoples in paragon have two more eyes to track Goo, or two more hands to press the buttons, or static 30% bonus to stats? or maybe each top guild member has twice lowered GCD? oh, get it - all the Ensidias found the way to cast two spells in the same time while moving...
they are the same peoples as everyone, but they know how to do their job right. to do your job right you need good gear, good reaction,good experience and good latency.
latency is something you can't deal with, left it; reaction and experience are the things that can be improved, but with hard work; gear is something you can improve in two hours. spent one hour per content patch to think what to roll on, take paper, take pencil and figure out how to be better. use wowwiki to find some formulas, go read some forums. Knowledge is something very hard to lost. It will be with you for at least 6 months until Cataclysm, you won't have to spend one more hour to learn it again. when Cata will be launched, you'll spend two more hours and you'll know what to do for next two years.

the worst thing in FoL users is not that they're half as effective as normal pala and even not that they are rolling on good gear. they became problem when they start to write guides about 'viable holy paladin speccing/gemming'. Newcomers read them and became 50% as effective as good healer from the very Naxx. 6 months later they are wondering why no one wants them in raid, and quit WoW.
and if some guild looks for pala to recruit him, it can wait for like month until good pala will be recruited.

p.s. i feel like i was trolled. i dunno why.

[Forcelink]

smaller, maybe bit offtopic note: As soon as ICC buff starts increasing, giving ''no'' buff at all to HL playstyle and in the same time making FOL more equal with huge HLs, with buff giving ie 15% healing, what i mean is, FOL < HL difference is not same as SHIT < Godly.

Difference is small atm, atleast in normal content, i dont have experience in HC ICC, but being able to heal most icc normals effectively (altho in different way than HL) doesnt make spec total crap, try to think outside of the box.

Changed into SP gemming 2 weeks ago and its different playstyle, not worse, not better, just different, for normal content player.

People need to open their eyes abit, atleast being more open minded for those people who are willing to try something different. And not always giving strict ''NO TY UR PLAYER BAD RLY + GS LINK'' answers.

So your basing your play around a 30% expansion end nerf on ONLY 1 raid? /clap
FoLs healing will be shit, as pointed out, at 30%.

Alenko, basic tunnel vision problem. Wasnt problem on Fester Goat in either 10 or 25 as only paladin. sorry. try it and give some serious facts, it fits my playstyle, which is in other words from people like you ''being shit player'', but I also feel bit stupid when overhealing for 5-10k with most heals, just because it happens to be BEST way to heal in this game

EDIT: Pretty obvious that Im not using 100% of time casting FoL, on spots that you had in your festergoat example, there is obviously going to be HL or two, keep in mind that this is forum for casuals. If you comments are somewhat pro and elite, please understand that we are in MMO champion forums and here, here we really can consider FOL as really viable spec since 80% people in here are casual normal mode raiders and casual normal mode ideas.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. So how many of the raid healers had to actually heal the tanks after inhales???Or did you bring 8 healers. Tunnel vision=/=Doing your job. There is major difference. Tunnel vision is when you solely focus on something e.g. dpsing the boss, your raidframes that you lose focus of everything around you, becoming unaware of stuff like fire till its too late. Another reason HL>FoL for ANY conctent except heroic and easy 10 mans, is due to that little glyph. Ever heard of it?The splash healing is godlike, essentially 1.5x-ing the effect of HL.
Your last comment amazes me. 80% of the people here are casual mode raiders...so 80% of the people here are FoL paladins?NO.NO.NO.

The stupidity of people like you makes me scared for the human race's future.