Cataclysm in PC Gamer UK, Blue posts

[v1ze]

i feel bad for the blue posters sometimes. look how long he has to explain the 1v1 scenario just because some moron doesn't understand. it's like he's chipping away at a brick wall of ignorance....oh wait, that wall is the american way.

[Missfit]

While i'm not for the whole Cairne getting executed bit, for some reason i hope for it because it means he would be actually involved in something.

Basically, if his dead is correct, Blizzard made a character for Warcraft3, they put it in WoW for nothing, doesn't change his stuff in 6 years because "he will be dead", so why changing nothing? That would mean a faggotry uppon Blizzard never reached before.

[lilbandit]

this whole "let's kill off cairne" thing annoys me. it has no basis in lore, the tauren would completely revolt and destroy the horde completely (The UD would scarper as soon as it looks like the horde are gona lose, and the BEs would join the alliance probably), and the goblins...we'll they'll be punted into Ashzara over the walls of Og.

no basis in lore, and has no future-lore in Cataclysm apart from some made up rubbish about Garrosh not being nice or something.

Just another one of Blizzard's stupid ret-cons that makes absolutely no sense and should destroy the game, but they just "accept" it and move on as if nothing happened.

[Wesly]

i guess i am hoping that Cairne actually does do something to betray the horde. I mean, something seriously bad (which would be out of character), but to have this whole Garrosh mess be justified. Otherwise, well, this is just stupid, and compromises Garrosh even further as a leader that players would wish to get behind.

[shogo238]

^
anti-horde propaganda FTW

[TobiasX]

i guess i am hoping that Cairne actually does do something to betray the horde. I mean, something seriously bad (which would be out of character), but to have this whole Garrosh mess be justified. Otherwise, well, this is just stupid, and compromises Garrosh even further as a leader that players would wish to get behind.

If it's turns out that he's just declaring "Cairne is a traitor!" then just goes to show that Garrosh is the worst npc in the game.
Worse than Staghelm. That's saying a lot.

[Tharaldriel]

Wryxian: Because so many people insist on greeding Frozen Orbs and then whining about people needing them, we've fixed the player base's IQ and allowed everybody a fair chance on Frozen Orbs. Don't WANT a Frozen Orb? Well that sucks, cause you're DAMN WELL GETTING ONE.

Seriously Blizzard, wtf? Seemingly all it takes to get something changed is a few people crying about not being able to greed -> win.

[LonewolfXIII]

I dont think thrall is just gonna take med'an's place as guardian.

[hammybiter]

• Still, honestly, is this really necessary? Why would Cairne be called a traitor? If it wasn't for Cairne and his Taurens helping out Thrall in Kalimdor, there would be no Orgrimmar or Durotar. I have kept track of all this information since the leak; and, it still bothers me how this remains without much elaboration. Would you really believe the new Guardian of Tirisfal would actually allow Garrosh to commit such an action?
  
  At least we get a clue to Desolace and maybe his spirit is beside a giant monument to him in Desolace to celebrate the success of making it lush again.

He was temporarily under the influence of an alliance spell/deathwing.. and made him kick out the ud/gayelfs and kill cairne.. killing cairne broke the spell somehow..

[Quintilius]

I can't believe they're doing this to Cairne. As if dealing with the forsaken for all these years wasn't bad enough.

[Cronnix]

CAN YOU GIVE BLIZZARD TIME TO GIVE YOU EXPLANATION ABOUT TAURENS TOGETHER WITH OFFICIAL INFO, BEFORE GOING "Waagh not fair, for no reason"?! Jesus Christ, kids...

[_Northem_]

The reason the Blood Elves left the Alliance was because of the Alliance commander Garithos, who treated them very badly. The Naga came and offered the Belfs help, help which without they would have been destroyed and lost what they still had. Garithos labelled them traitors because of this, for taking help in their most dire moment of need when he had taken most of the forces for himself.

The Nagas did not only offer that timely assistance to the blood elves, in fact, the blood elves, at first, refused to interact with these creatures, yet, when the Nagas offered them the vile magic of their master Illidan, the blood elves accepted gladly this alliance, knowing that this would be considered high treason that is punishable by death.
Is not this a strange coincidence that the Nagas come to the aid of the Blood Elves at the right time? Actually it is not surprising since all this issue was being orchestrated from the highest levels, including how Garithos acted (way to act that did not share the rest of the Alliance).

someone didn't play WC3...the alliance turned their back on the elves in their time of need, used them as cannon fodder and left them for dead...really all the elves who still side with the alliance are the real traitors...

The alliance DID NOT turn his back to the elves for the simple reason that all his members (including the gnomes who were being attacked in their city) were ravaged by war, and therefore, they could not help their elf friends. The elves who are still on the side of the alliance are the true loyal to their allies, after all, the blood elves are the ones who have allied with their enemies (the Horde), so they are the real traitors.

That wasn't it at all. Garithos was a bigoted bastard, yes, but he didn't speak for the Alliance as a whole. His decision to imprison Kael'thas and his entourage and have them executed was unforgivable, but on the flip side, Kael'thas did associate with the evil naga, and he was mainly concerned with feeding his people's magic addiction. The irony of it all is that Garithos was right about Kael'thas - but wrong about the elven race as a whole.
The elves who remain in the Alliance are the ones who realize the allied nations don't share Garithos' view, and the ones who are trying to fight their magic addiction rather than give into it.

Accurate. You're absolutely right, you can not explain it better.

Garithos was a racist.
He also hated Dwarves as much as he hated the Elves.
He didnt care for Kael'thas... not because he was addicted to magic, but because he wasn't Human.
And who was to say the Naga was evil at that point? They had not done anything for Garithos or Kael'thas to believe they was evil.
Garithos, as a racist, took one look at the Naga and automatically assumed they were trouble... and out of fear assumed that Kael'thas would turn on the Alliance with the help of Lady Vashj.
Garithos pushed Kael'thas, and the Elves along with him, out of the Alliance.
All Kael'thas ever wanted was to prove himself... which led him down the dark path to the events of The Burning Crusade.

The Nagas had already made occasional appearances on the islands of Kul Tiras and were known as evil creatures that worship an old god and assaulted ships at sea, meaning that they were well known. But you are right when you say that Garithos pushed Kael'thas, and the Elves along with him, out of the Alliance, yet, who was benefited from the alliance will fall apart completely?

Clearly Garithos was being controlled (directly or indirectly) to carry out this purpose, but by whom? It is also clear: by the dreadlords Detheroc and Balnazzar, ie by the Burning Legion who pretended to break up any resistance that could hinder their mission to destroy Azeroth. These dreadlords were also the responsible for inducing the alliance between the Naga and blood elves? I think it's pretty obvious, in fact, the Nagas have always had a great relationship with the Burning Legion.

Yes, I said he was a racist, but you're mistaken about some other points.
Whether Garithos knew that the naga were evil at that point is up in the air; he could certainly have encountered them "off-camera" before, but it's not really important - he didn't fear them, they weren't even his primary concern at all. He wanted to get rid of the elves. Period. He sent them on a suicide mission against the Scourge, and when that didn't work out, he used their involvement with the naga as an excuse to have them executed. So yes, he was a bigoted bastard. No one disagrees with that.

The assumption is that he spoke for the Alliance, which he didn't. The Alliance was shattered and broken at that point and Garithos only really spoke for the men under his current command - which unfortunately led to the schism with the elves. However, that Kael'thas just wanted to prove himself is a laughable assumption. It doesn't take any convincing at all from Vashj to lead him down the path of demonic magic. His true motivations were always to find a new source of magic for himself and his people, and it didn't really matter what that source of magic was.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the entire divide between the elven nation and the Alliance could've been avoided if anyone but Garithos had been in charge at Dalaran, as he was the instigator - not the Alliance as a whole.

You're absolutely right again, perfectly well explained.

[TheFuse]

Garrosh will throw out most of the Blood Elves and Forsaken from Orgrimmar.

Damn I wish those were real, because this made me my morning.

[Unholyground]

Beta is around the corner baby

[madethisfor1post]

Soooooo much rage.

Who is to say what is right and what is wrong? Blizzard is the only answer. Until then, any "information" posted anywhere is just to be taken with a grain of salt. But cut Boub a little slack. He hasn't led us down the dark path yet.

Blizz releases artwork of ice. People claim it points to WotLK info. Boub says it's Diablo 3. People rage but time proves Boub right.
Blizz puts "Lava man" in the game files. Boub says it's Bolvar. People rage and say it can't be him. Time proves Boub right.

So all in all...just wait?

[Bogoraga]

Even if all this does happen when Cata comes out, it doesn't have to be permanent. Anyone think this might be a setup?
Lets look at what we know:
1) Thrall knows that Garrosh is incapable of being a good leader.
2) Thrall also knows Garrosh is gaining a huge following amongst the blood thirsty orcs, and might gain enough support to overthrow him.

Lets speculate.

Why would Thrall leave Garrosh incharge?
Maybe to prove to his supporters that he would bring ruin, thereby curbing any rebellion forming.

So what happens down the line
1) Garrosh declares all out war against the alliance, who are an equal match.
2) He kills a popular leader of an allied race, and alienates two others. Specially since Undead were already only party in the horde(for eg: you start with lower horde rep as an undead) and Sylvanas pretty much stuck by only because she respects Thrall. Same with Blood elfs, they don't have any loyalty for the Horde, they're in it for convenience and security.
3) Horde is considerably weaken due to splintering, internal conflict, low morale amongst all but the orcs and a horrible leader. UC and SM being closer to Alliance territories face a greater threat. People start seeing how incompetent Garrosh is.
4) Either Thrall comes back. Or maybe Sylvanas heads up a "new horde" with Undead, and Belfs, Orcs and Tauren that disagree with Garrosh/Baine. And Trolls just jump in cause the new horde is more powerful. Don't really know, not much going on politically with the Trolls.

[willjones410]

The Nagas did not only offer that timely assistance to the blood elves, in fact, the blood elves, at first, refused to interact with these creatures, yet, when the Nagas offered them the vile magic of their master Illidan, the blood elves accepted gladly this alliance, knowing that this would be considered high treason that is punishable by death.
Is not this a strange coincidence that the Nagas come to the aid of the Blood Elves at the right time? Actually it is not surprising since all this issue was being orchestrated from the highest levels, including how Garithos acted (way to act that did not share the rest of the Alliance).

Is this your "Theory" again on how Garithos was being mind-controlled by the Dreadlords from the beginning? Do I need to re-post the WoW-wiki article showing how false that is? Garithos didn't come into contact with those dreadlords until AFTER Kael'thas and his bands escaped from his order for them to be executed. Before then, he was acting of his own accord as his normal, human-supremacist, spiteful self.

I guess I do.

Garithos returned and saw the naga leaving the scene, and, infuriated, said this was the proof he was waiting for to execute Kael and the blood elves.[6] He arrested Kael and his servitors and locked them in the Dalaran dungeons to await their execution, under the guard of Kassan.[11] But soon Garithos heard that Kael had escaped with Vashj's help and were fleeing through a mystic portal. Garithos sent his men, armed with explosives, to destroy the portal, but the elven engineers Kael had freed used their knowledge to construct strategic defense systems. Kael and Vashj defended the portal and eventually fled themselves.[12]

Garithos, though furious, turned his attention back to the advancing undead. He pushed them back into Plaguelands, but was soon faced with the dreadlords, Detheroc and Balnazzar. Detheroc's powers of mental domination made quick slaves of Garithos and his men. The human served as Detheroc and Balnazzar's pet for some time until they were attacked by Sylvanas and Varimathras. Sylvanas slew Detheroc and Garithos was freed from his bondage. Garithos was asked to join Sylvanas in the final attack on Balnazzar and he agreed, so long as Lordaeron was left to him. The banshee agreed - but secretly had no intention of keeping her word.[13]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Garithos

WoWwiki and game lore both crit you for 19K. ;D

The alliance DID NOT turn his back to the elves for the simple reason that all his members (including the gnomes who were being attacked in their city) were ravaged by war, and therefore, they could not help their elf friends. The elves who are still on the side of the alliance are the true loyal to their allies, after all, the blood elves are the ones who have allied with their enemies (the Horde), so they are the real traitors.

There is one truth here. The nation of Quel'thelas stopped being members of the Alliance after the second war, much like Gilneas did. They at least kept open communications though so guys like Kael'thas could learn magics at Dalaran, but it still stands that QT was no longer part of the Alliance. As such, the Alliance nations had no obligation for them to come running when they needed help. That being said though, claiming that the blood elves of Quel'Thelas are traitors because they joined the Horde is just fucking retarded. Truly the mindset of a fanboy who's refusing to look at things from both sides of the isle. :

Furthermore, I might add, there were also those High Elves who felt too connected with the Alliance and decided to stick around when Quel'thelas seceded from the Alliance, which I'm fine with. However, when Quel'thelas was sacked by the Scourge and the Sunwell defiled by Arthas, what did they do? They chose to remain hiding abroad instead of going back to their former homeland and trying to help, so that's why I hold nothing but contempt for High Elves as they stand today as well as factions like the Silver Covenant.

The Nagas had already made occasional appearances on the islands of Kul Tiras and were known as evil creatures that worship an old god and assaulted ships at sea, meaning that they were well known. But you are right when you say that Garithos pushed Kael'thas, and the Elves along with him, out of the Alliance, yet, who was benefited from the alliance will fall apart completely?

Clearly Garithos was being controlled (directly or indirectly) to carry out this purpose, but by whom? It is also clear: by the dreadlords Detheroc and Balnazzar, ie by the Burning Legion who pretended to break up any resistance that could hinder their mission to destroy Azeroth. These dreadlords were also the responsible for inducing the alliance between the Naga and blood elves? I think it's pretty obvious, in fact, the Nagas have always had a great relationship with the Burning Legion.

Clearly? Clear to who? You with your tiny mind and absolute horrid way of twisting the lore around? Yes. To the rest of us, not so much. Garithos wasn't being controlled by anyone. He simply was a racist prick, a bad commander, a weakling, pretty much the Alliance version of Garrosh Hellscream. I am laughing at your attempts to make excuses for him. :

[Arandmoor]

I'll just drop what i put in the other thread in here.

Actually, from an alliance perspective given Blizzard's track record with big name NPCs the Horde is overdue for some serious shakeup in the leadership department. Personally, I'd take everything you labeled as "unlikely" and up it to at least "probable, but all details not presently known".

Sorry but, if you're Horde you're probably going to see some changes.

From the alliance-side of the NPC fence...FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU HORDE! You're overdue having some of your precious NPCs taken away and stepped on.

If we have to put up with King Death-chin then you can put up with Garrosh, and we'll all be eating steak come cata thanks to Cairne.

[bigfoot1291]

I R CANT SEE IF PPL ARE NEEDING ON FROZEN ORBS BEFORE I CHOOSE AN OPTION. OH WHATS THAT, PEOPLE ARE NEEDING IT? IM GONNA HIT GREED NAO!

WTF I LOSE THE ORB? THIS IS IMBA, IT MUST BE NERFED.

[Losbasterdos]

• ...
  
  I HATE GARROSH! TAURENS WANT JUSTICE![

So if Carne is dead can Trolls eat him, we arte hungry. And lets kick some alliance booty!