Problems with Building Threat

[Aquine]

Dear Druids,

Last week my druid hit 80 and for start tanking for the first time, and im loving it!
Really like the tanking part and also the instant que's are perfect.
Threat is no problem for me when the players are not imba geared (GS below 5k)

But when im running HC's with people who know how to play their class and/or have a GS above 5k the problems begins.
Most on the time on trash packs im not able to build up aggro fast on more then 4 mobs.
Also im ending up with 2000dps on overall data on the end of the run, what is not very high imho

Normally im marking 1 mob with a Skull, Charge on that mob, use FF and Mangle on this mob, Use Demo Roar and start Swipe on all the mobs, and using Demo Roar again when it start to run out.
When Beserk is not on CD im using this aswell and start to spam Mangle, just try to generate as much threat on all the mobs.

On single targets im normally fine( also using Lacerate then ofcourse ), but at the ends the good geared people pass me aswell on the threatmeter.

Also using maul macro on my mangle/swipe/lacerate spells.

What im doing wrong? Is it just a matter of getting beter gear with more agi/crit/ap? or im just failing ?
Anything wrong with my spec or gemming? (Already know that i need to replace my 10dodge/15stamina gems for 10agi/15stamina)

Already checked alot of guides, checked armorys and asked people around me for advice, but no luck so far

Any advice would be more then welcome

My Armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...bane&cn=Cealus

Thanks

Cealus

P.S Sorry for being a noob but just started with druid tanking

[hoot80]

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...al-Druid-Guide

Read that and then ask questions if you still have them.

[Munkey]

You can link him all the information you want, but some people just don't realise the difficulties involved with tanking.
Sure there are some people who do have tanks and are most probably know the ins and outs involved, but when they play their DPS calsses all they care about is how much damage they can possibly pull out in such a short timeframe. And usually in cases like these they are running with other people who have just recently either new lved 80s wanting to gear up or have just recently respecced.
Especially in your case where your gear may not be as good as the rest in the group and just go flat out without considering the consequences.

Now in a Bear's case, we don't have the Ranged Attacks that Palis with their taunt that does huge amount of damage and Avengers shield that can silence casters, or DKs that have Death grip and Death and Decay at their disposal.
We have to literally have to charge in and "Physically" hit our targets in order to get threat.
Yes I suppose we do have FFF and Warriors have Heroic throw, but these are single target abilities, not the aoe abilities I mentioned above. And might I add that heroic throw can silence, wheres Bears don't have an ability like that.

Our problem lies in the fact that we rely on our Melee abilities that they forget that we don't have these amazing ranged aoe spells that Palis and Dks have, so they just end up dpsing targets before we even get to our targets.

[Deleted]

Don't bother with demo roar on trash. Specially not before you swipe.

[Turthias]

Yeah make sure there are some swipes flying first. That will build agro far more efficiently.

[Dharmabhum]

Yea, I agree that Demo Roar isn't high on priority in today's game, at least not in heroics when DPS don't give us much of a lead and we already struggle a bit with AOE threat.

As a bear, I charge and spam my mangle and maul buttons for the first mob, and get a swipe off right away if the mobs are close enough to be affected (if not, I wait a second so they run towards me but swipe is right off the bat in today's heroics game). To be honest, I don't usually mess with FFF since most pulls are multiple mobs and its single target. It definitely helps in some cases, but its not usually the first thing on my list unless its a ranged pull. In most cases, the first maul/mangle combo should stick that first mob to you like glue, and I can then use FFF on a caster who won't come to me or on another mob just because.

You want to make sure to use Mangle on CD, glyph Maul, and a Swipe/Maul macro. In heroics today, all I really do is Swipe spam (with Maul macro), and sometimes tab through a Lacerate per mob if they'll stay up for more than a few seconds. So long as you're using Mangle, Maul, Swipe (and Lacerate on longer-living mobs) you should be good so long as DPS gives you one swipe's worth of time. That still leaves you with Growl, FFF and Challenging Roar (glyphed preferably if you're not ubergeared) if anyone does pull off of you. Also, don't be afraid to tell DPS to give you a second on packs in heroics; they won't always do it and it won't always be necessary, but it can help if anyone ever does listen.

[Thedrun]

A better weapon will go a long ways to boost your dps output and ultimately your threat. The rest looks pretty good.

Rotation-wise I'd say do the FF first then charge (good for baiting caster mobs to start casting which you can then interrupt with charge. I thought I read that interrupting a caster gives you more aggro on them but I don't know if that's actually true), change targets to mangle a 2ndary, then go back to primary. Demo roar isn't super helpful compared to swipe for threat on multi-mobs, and in heroics it's more or less unnecessary unless your healer is really bad.

That being said, people seem to have long forgotten that WoW is indeed a co-operative effort. If you see someone with an insanely high gearscore tell them in advance that things might be smoother if they throttle down a little or keep a closer eye on their threat. Ask for people to use Tricks of the Trade and Misdirect.

One other sort of "psychology" trick that I've used: if you have the heals to do it, pull larger (5+) groups of mobs. This encourages dps to use their AoE abilities rather than focus-blasting a single target because it makes their dps output higher, and I find I have an easier time maintaining AoE aggro with repeated Swipe + Maul. If you pull a bit too much don't forget your survival cooldowns, and being fast with a growl / challenging roar is good too.

-Thedrun

[Dharmabhum]

Ooh, and also remember that Berserk is only on a 3 min cooldown. Hitting three targets with a high damage, high threat skill for quite a few seconds will go a long way to keeping aggro on those packs with overzealous DPS. Just don't forget to tab-spam mangle if there's more than three targets or you risk not getting much threat on the fourth mob. Sometimes weaving in an early swipe with all those mangles will go a lot way too.

[littlepiggy]

Thedrun beat me, your weapon is holding you back. Bear's damage done is based on weapon, and since your rocking a 200 ilvl staff vs geared players that can pull high 8k it's going to be tough. If you're in a guild that will help you out, run some toc 10 or icc 10 or even H HoR.

on a side note, DON'T gem agi/crit as a tank and definitely NEVER EVER gem dodge as a tank. full stamina or agi/stamina, it's the only two gems you need

[Naoe]

It's no problem tanking when you have threat problems, mark a skull and let dpsers kill it, it will die before it reaches them. Tank the rest and youll have threat on them when they are done with the skull. Or just spam swipe

[Dharmabhum]

Thedrun and littlepiggy have good points, but don't forget he just hit 80 last week! I'd say he's pretty well-geared for being that nub to wrath end-game. Good point on the gems too... 10agi/15stam gems will go a long way in helping your dps and therefore your threat, and 30stam are good too obviously. And if you can find someone, Mongoose is best for your weapon.

[conqq]

imo it's just your gear

[Deleted]

Your gear seems fine

try drop demo roar, it's realy a wasted GCD. only use demo
roar on bosses. Btw, 2p tier10 gives you +20% dmg on swipe, should make AoE tanking abit easier :P

[Valquirie]

A couple of points that might hurt more than help:

1. Inform the group at the start - and when a new player joins - that you are a new 80 and new to tanking. :-)

2. Ask them to go easy on their DpS and watch their threat.

3. Marking is good! But, if a DpS pulls an unmarked target without reason - i.e. it was not important for that target to die first, and it was not marked or discussed, and the DpS didn't accidentally aggro it - then DO NOT help them!

That got my Paladin alt kicked a couple of times, till 40 (when I went Holy), but mostly the groups either broke up or ended with 3 replaced members, or something disastrous like that. :-(

However, make sure that you know your class and role. Read up guides on TankSpot, get the best gear you can get - that will take some farming of gold for crafting, and reputation for rewards - and gem and enchant them properly. Till you get "raid level" gear, you should be fine with blue gems, but refrain from using greens. :-)

[Munkey]

imo it's just your gear

The fact that the op said that he has been level 80 for a week and wants to tank heroics in his gear that he currently has just makes your staement utterly pointless.
It also states that you failed to even read his current situation at all and blatantly just blurted the obvious fact that you didn't even consider his plight just makes you a moron in my mind.
All he asked for was some advice, not the stupid staement that you provided, thats what running heroics are about. And hes willing to step up and tank places with people who are obviously have better gear than him.

Now back at the matter at hand.
I would suggest that you could of just started farming heroics as a dps spec and run with these top geared people and just roll need on the drops, stating that you needed them for you off spec-soon to be mainspec if they question your motives.
But with the current queue times waiting as a dps spec of say average 10 minutes, you would most probably get faster queue times as a tank or even healer these days, depending on your battlegroup situation.
But thats entirely your choice in the matter my man. If you don't like to dps or heal thats your choice alone.

[exochaft]

imo it's just your gear

The fact that the op said that he has been level 80 for a week and wants to tank heroics in his gear that he currently has just makes your staement utterly pointless.
It also states that you failed to even read his current situation at all and blatantly just blurted the obvious fact that you didn't even consider his plight just makes you a moron in my mind.
All he asked for was some advice, not the stupid staement that you provided, thats what running heroics are about. And hes willing to step up and tank places with people who are obviously have better gear than him.

Ironically, his main source of threat problems IS his gear, specifically his weapon. You'd be surprised at how many druids newer to the kitty/bear side of life don't realize that our weapon isn't just a stats stick like it is to a hunter, it is THE source of half or more than half of our feral form's AP. Increasing the ilevel of the tanking weapon used will greatly increase the OP's threat generation (aside from minor rotation fixes mentioned in previous posts).

Also, it reeeeeally depends on what DPS classes you go against in heroics. Even with end-game gear, it can be hard to maintain threat on everything without threat misdirections from hunters/rogues against geared aoe/cleave classes. Given enough lead time, you'll keep threat, but most pugs won't give you that even if you ask. In my battlegroup, marking a mob with a skull means you ignore the marked mob until the next trash pull... and sometimes, that isn't even a joke. Any DPS can steal aggro on a mob a tank does not focus if they're good at their class, it's just one of the things you deal with when in pugs (especially since not all classes need to change their single-target rotation to aoe). Gear will help this, as well as experience keeping track of threat on a lot of mobs at once.

[Aquine]

Thanks for the advice everything, with some regemming, leaving demo roar out my rotation in heroics im able to get loads more of aggro now.
Also bought a Battered Hilt and got that nice tanking mace now.

[Deleted]

gz on that

[Mortimer]

Also bought a Battered Hilt and got that nice tanking mace now.

/e oozes with envy.

I lost the only one I've ever seen drop to a Prot warrior guildie, the day 3.3 launched... Neither of us remembered that there is no 1h tank weapon untill after he had done the quests... He still apologizes whenever I lament my macelessness.