Weapon Worries

[conqq]

26 is the exp cap when you're facing the back of the boss......but if you're tank you only face it when you're dead.....so you need a lot more exp to be cap.
Is dodge still usefeull....with the 20% debuff not really, and people who likes to do some maths will proove it to you, unfortunaltly i d'on't do maths

pallies aren't THAT dependent on expertise, we only have like 2 moves that rely on it. and dodge is still better than parry

[tjanson]

pallies aren't THAT dependent on expertise, we only have like 2 moves that rely on it. and dodge is still better than parry

Except those two moves(and all auto attacks that also include seal procs) are the vast majority of our threat generation.

FALSE!

I cannot say how many times I've missed a taunt due to lack of hit, it's unbelievably important to get at least the melee cap

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41100

[balloonknot]

Is dodge still usefeull....with the 20% debuff not really, and people who likes to do some maths will proove it to you, unfortunaltly i d'on't do maths

The ICC debuff has no impact whatsoever on the value of dodge rating vs parry rating. The 20% comes off after diminishing returns.

The 20% loss does mean that you get hit more often and take hit strings more often which for many increases the value of effective health (armor/stam) over avoidance as a whole but says nothing about the specific value of dodge.

[InbredPsychosis]

Hit cap is super unimportant for a tank. I have roughly 160 hit. In Ulduar progression I was barely hitting 100. Unless you're osmehow having huge threat issues, it's just not an important factor.

I beg to differ. When you run with DPS pulling 7-9k TPS, a couple of missed shield slams/hammers and you could be in trouble. Granted, the only ones that usually run that high are those who can drop it, with feign death or invisibility or vanish. Still though, I'm a little anal about my TPS.

[Aedh]

pallies aren't THAT dependent on expertise, we only have like 2 moves that rely on it. and dodge is still better than parry

Attacks that can be dodge/parried
Melee (duh)
SoC procs (ORLY? YARLY)
HotR
ShoR (what you didn't know that?)

I count 1..2..3..4. 4 moves, 3 if you don't use SoCom on trash(although why you wouldn't I do not know), that can be dodged/parried.

Oh ya and SoV stack applications can be parried/dodge.

Of the 4 listed, 3 will proc seal damage.

[bawkbawkboom]

Just to clarify.

Expertise is the best threat stat until soft cap.

Hey look a link, with math and colorful graphs.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p521995


And um mongoose and bladeward have the same proc chance, so you are half right.

TLDR Summary:

The ShoR change, while seemingly minor, made a huge difference in stat weighting.
Expertise is now our best threat stat below the soft-cap of 26 (above that it's fairly weak).
Hit is better than STR, point for point, after you reach around 2000 unbuffed character-sheet strength. But it will remain close, and they synergize such that adding one makes the other better.
STR is our third best threat stat, but it becomes our best after we soft-cap expertise. Adding more expertise or hit will make STR even better.
BV, while nice, isn't really something we should stack for threat. STR is better point per point, and doesn't push you into the DR range of ShoR as quickly. Obviously take what you can get as far as gear goes, but if you get to choose between 10 STR or 31 BV, always take the 10 STR.
General gearing strategy for threat:
Stack Expertise to 26 (soft-cap)
Stack hit rating to 8%
Stack STR

Refering to the B/I/U text, Although it is out best until soft cap, this doesn't mean it's crap thereafter. It is still an effective threat stat until hard cap. You should never be gemming for Expertise in the first place, so we can take the 'nobrainer' part out of the equasion. There is enough Expertise on gear, mixed with the itemisation of ICC, you should be able to fiddle some gear around to get the soft cap. the effectiveness of ~STR~ being the best stat for threat after soft cap is increased with the further above soft cap we go with Expertise/hit (hit obv only to cap). So where Expertise on its own as a threat stat is weaker after softcap, mixed with its help to increase STR's threat, our then best threat stat, it is still a valuable source of threat.

Mongoose and BW have the same PPM, not the same proc chance. Slightly different. With the normalisation of proc chances in 3.3, Mongoose has a higher application rate. And as it has a duration, it's still better than Bladeward.

Bawk

[bawkbawkboom]

Attacks that can be dodge/parried
Melee (duh)
SoC procs (ORLY? YARLY)
HotR
ShoR (what you didn't know that?)

I count 1..2..3..4. 4 moves, 3 if you don't use SoCom on trash(although why you wouldn't I do not know), that can be dodged/parried.

Oh ya and SoV stack applications can be parried/dodge.

Of the 4 listed, 3 will proc seal damage.

Therefore, Expertise will still be valuable to our threat generation as per the link you provided, it helps STR after the soft cap.

Bawk