the value of 2pt T9 setbonus

[crabmousse]

I know it's high, but is there a quantifiable figure on it? a rough percentage of dps or maybe even an estimate as to how much DPS it's worth? I'm stuck with 2part welfare 232 T9 and just got the legs from Dreamwalker 25 normal last night which pack a buttload of haste and crit, but rawr is telling me not to use the legs at a loss of 300dps or so. it could be partially due to dropping below expertise cap but I think it's more to do with the setbonus. should I really continue to use inferior legs that are 4 tiers of gear below what I have??

also if you have 4pt T10 which leg/chest/hands/head/shoulder item is the best non-set to use? the legs I have seem nice (not rolling on agility or mail because of loot rules).

[Samin]

Haste is still (pretty) worthless. Expertise is more important than crit until cap.
And 2T9 is very powerfull...I think you only want to replace that with 4T10. (or T11 :P)

[Rlyskilled]

I know it's high, but is there a quantifiable figure on it? a rough percentage of dps or maybe even an estimate as to how much DPS it's worth? I'm stuck with 2part welfare 232 T9 and just got the legs from Dreamwalker 25 normal last night which pack a buttload of haste and crit, but rawr is telling me not to use the legs at a loss of 300dps or so. it could be partially due to dropping below expertise cap but I think it's more to do with the setbonus. should I really continue to use inferior legs that are 4 tiers of gear below what I have??

also if you have 4pt T10 which leg/chest/hands/head/shoulder item is the best non-set to use? the legs I have seem nice (not rolling on agility or mail because of loot rules).

The way t9's 2pc is working with t10's 2pc makes it so powerful that you shouldn't break them until you can get the 4set. T9 makes RV ticks able to crit, while t10's Divine Storm resets often replace potential consecration/exorcisms with a melee attack, increasing the uptime of RV. They work well together.
While the 264 legs have higher stats, the loss of expertise, and breaking up a set bonus will result in a loss in DPS.
Many people will say that it isn't even worth breaking t9's 2set until you get Tiny Abomination in a Jar.

The gloves are often the best non-set piece to use as many ret paladins are using TaJ and the hit on the gloves is wasted, not to mention the variety in offset gloves that drop in ICC.

The value of haste will increase with TaJ and your t10 4set, so hold onto those pants if you can make up the expertise elsewhere.

[Requital]

I know it's high, but is there a quantifiable figure on it? a rough percentage of dps or maybe even an estimate as to how much DPS it's worth? I'm stuck with 2part welfare 232 T9 and just got the legs from Dreamwalker 25 normal last night which pack a buttload of haste and crit, but rawr is telling me not to use the legs at a loss of 300dps or so. it could be partially due to dropping below expertise cap but I think it's more to do with the setbonus. should I really continue to use inferior legs that are 4 tiers of gear below what I have??

also if you have 4pt T10 which leg/chest/hands/head/shoulder item is the best non-set to use? the legs I have seem nice (not rolling on agility or mail because of loot rules).

I debate this and test it for myself at least 1 to 2 times per Raid I'm still not entirely convinced that 4PC 264 is better then 2PC 258/264. It might be but I have yielded better results using 2/2 instead so I will keep using it for now. Maybe 2PC 277/264 will change my mind but I'm seeing much lower DPS than I'm expected to pull wearing 4PC T10.

[crabmousse]

I debate this and test it for myself at least 1 to 2 times per Raid I'm still not entirely convinced that 4PC 264 is better then 2PC 258/264. It might be but I have yielded better results using 2/2 instead so I will keep using it for now. Maybe 2PC 277/264 will change my mind but I'm seeing much lower DPS than I'm expected to pull wearing 4PC T10.

well I wouldn't have such an issue with it if I wasn't rocking 232 T9 atm and will never be anywhere near 258pieces since I've never seen past Jaraxxus on TOTGC25. seems ridiculous to avoid upgrading to 264 gear from welfare badge stuff to keep the set bonus but I'll just have to keep the legs banked until I can hit 4-set T10, the only other offset item I have is the chest and it has hit on it.

also to the guy who said haste is mostly useless, not sure if I've read it anywhere but surely at the moment with 2pt T10, 10% haste is -10% from Divine Storm cooldown? so if it's actively 6 seconds with setbonus, surely with 10% haste it's actually 5.4seconds leading to a pretty significant increase in the value of haste rating?

also while I'm here, if expertise cap is so valuable then why are you advised against gemming it if you're falling short of the cap?

[Samin]

also to the guy who said haste is mostly useless, not sure if I've read it anywhere but surely at the moment with 2pt T10, 10% haste is -10% from Divine Storm cooldown? so if it's actively 6 seconds with setbonus, surely with 10% haste it's actually 5.4seconds leading to a pretty significant increase in the value of haste rating?

also while I'm here, if expertise cap is so valuable then why are you advised against gemming it if you're falling short of the cap?

But the haste on the legs is not worth more than 2T9. Or at least I highly doubt it. Correct me if I'm wrong. My advice was that the legs are not worth breaking 2T9.

And I would never advice against gemming for expertise if you really need it, even though you should be able to get your cap with a few pieces + glyph (10 expertise!).
If you mean why *I* am not capped, it's because I don't care because I don't raid.

[crabmousse]

But the haste on the legs is not worth more than 2T9. Or at least I highly doubt it. Correct me if I'm wrong. My advice was that the legs are not worth breaking 2T9.

And I would never advice against gemming for expertise if you really need it, even though you should be able to get your cap with a few pieces + glyph (10 expertise!).
If you mean why *I* am not capped, it's because I don't care because I don't raid.

nah I wasn't talking about you specifically, I've read a few posts mocking people for expertise gemming.

[Deleted]

elitist jerks has the solution (as always)

Tier 9

Maths:

RV damage average: 7% of our total dps
Average critrate in a raid: 45%
(45*7)% = 3.15

2pc: Allowing RV ticks to crit results in a ~3% dps boost. As is the case with most wrath sets, this scales with your gear (as more STR increases the dot strength, and more crit means it will crit more often).

4pc: 5% more crit to our judgements is paltry and probably our worst set bonus in wotlk. It works out to a ~0.5% dps increase.

2T9 also slightly changes our clash resolution system, please see above.

[top]Tier 10

Pegged as the final tier set of this expansion, this is our best and most interesting set so far. I've also opted to include the T10 libram as a comparison to the T9 and pvp ones.

Tier 10 2pc - Your melee attacks have a 40% chance of resetting your DS cooldown: The most interesting bonus we've ever had, but because of the random nature of the proc it makes it very difficult to get a solid % increase number. It appears that this can only proc from auto-attacks. This bonus also changes our FCFS system again, please see the rotation section. Without the bonus, DS usually accounts for 7% of our total dps; based on current theorycraft, 2T10 provides a ~2% dps increase due to more DS usage (it is closer to 3% on paper but due to reaction times as well as increased GCD usage it is less). It is very likely this will be used in pvp, due to the burst damage DS can provide.

Tier 10 4pc - Increases damage done by seals and judgements by 10%: Yes, this applies to the SoV dot as well as the SoV proc, though it isn't as clear-cut as it sounds. The bonus stacks additively with SotP and anything else that increases seal/judgement damage, so damage from seal dots/procs is increased by 9%, and judgements for some reason are increased by 11-12%. Nonetheless it is still our best bonus of the expansion and is worth roughly 3-4%.

Tier 10 looks to provide up to a 6% DPS increase in most situations. 4PC is very desirable and will be eventually be seen on almost every ret raider.

once you can have 4PT10, you are best off using it. the set bonus, coupled with the higher itemlevel, trumps anything T9 has to offer.

[Rlyskilled]

I debate this and test it for myself at least 1 to 2 times per Raid I'm still not entirely convinced that 4PC 264 is better then 2PC 258/264. It might be but I have yielded better results using 2/2 instead so I will keep using it for now. Maybe 2PC 277/264 will change my mind but I'm seeing much lower DPS than I'm expected to pull wearing 4PC T10.

I really don't understand how the DPS gap you told me about last night between using your 4set and using 2/2 could be so wide. D: Something had to have been different, something, somewhere!

I just got my 4th piece of t10 264 and swapped over to it, replacing a few gems in the process (netted a 4 dps gain by dropping 30 crit for 30 haste, lul) and it hasn't been an amazing game changing mind boggling DPS increase, but it's been an increase nonetheless.

@Posts above:
Gemming for expertise is generally a bad idea, considering how easy it is to just grab ~20 expertise with tier legs and a glyph. I believe I read somewhere that a strength gem will net you a higher DPS gain than an expertise gem, capped or not. Then again, I've seen gear setups in Rawr using one expertise gem to cap in a full t10 BiS situation.

To be honest if it were me I'd let expertise come with gear, and not bother gemming for it.