"PST Acheivement or no response..."

[ardoRic]

Link a harder ach, works for me.

RL:LF DPS ToGC10, pst ach and GS
Me: All 264 and [Fall of the Lich King]
RL: ZOMG I WANTS YOU IN HERE! Wait, where is your Kingslayer?
Me: I like Jenkins more. Duh
RL: Fair enough. /invite

I had a conversation like this last time i tried to get into a togc10. Only the RL was a moron and didn't take me in.

Granted i don't have the LK dead yet, but 11/12 should be enough to prove I'm both geared and skilled (don't think you can be boosted that far, just yet). Just because I wasn't able to kill anub back in the old days (the alt in question didn't even exist in those days) doesn't mean I'm not able to rotflown him with new shiny gear.

[ardoRic]

You can simplify (almost)any boss like that =\

PP = Kill adds, dodge slime, nuke boss (Assumeing you don't give some random person a hard job)
BQL = dps boss, bite who we tell you to
Dreamwalker = Kill adds-DPS, Go in the portal, touch orbs, heal the boss-Healers
Sindragosa = Nuke boss, stop dps when you get the debuff. Stand behind iceblocks.
Festergut = Nuke boss-Melee, Nuke boss, stack on the person with the spore when it comes-Ranged
Princes = Kill the boss that has health.

I could go on :P

Yes. The problem is the execution gap.

On those harder bosses, there's a big difference between knowing tactics and propperly executing them.

On VoA bosses .... it's just THAT simple.

The problem which was lifted was that "spend several times as long teaching it to them".

First time I was in Toravon, half the raid didn't know wtf would happen, we downed him the second time around. There are a lot reports of people one-shooting it.

[Thatwsntmilk]

Having an achievement doesn't mean that you know the fight and not having it doesn't mean that you don't, but which person is more likely to know what they're doing?

See, that is the problem of most people nowadays. They only think binary. There is only lower (0) or higher (1) Gearscore than the required one (e.g. 5600). There is only having the achievement (0) and not having the achievement (1).
But guess what, you can also try to talk to the people and hell, maybe you will know more than those two numbers mentioned above about other players afterwards.

And don't try to argue that it takes to much time to talk to people. Finding out if they know how to play and what the ehf to do by talking to them does not take longer than asking for GS+Ach in most cases (at least if you are experienced yourself, which I think most people actively using GS/Ach are not).

[Brince]

Because it's in Human nature to try to be better then everyone else, and what better place to pretend that then in an MMOPRG where noone knows you IRL...

[seam]

On those harder bosses, there's a big difference between knowing tactics and propperly executing them.

Perhaps on some.

But for some random person you bring in, take sindragosa for example when we brought in a recruit.

Recruit: So, what do I do here?
RL: Remember Saph from Naxx?
R: Yeah?
RL: That. Just dps the iceblocks down when the airphase comes.

Granted he was a really good recruit, it still is as easy as that :P

[Batrua]

I just started straight up lying on my alts. Downloaded UnderAchiever and just linked away while saying I had a higher GS than I did. Half the raid leaders were too retarded to even notice. And then when I would get the achievement if anyone asked about it I'd link meters or just say something like "I didn't screw anything up did I?"

Or another thing you can do is link something impress on your main and say that you want to go on a geared enough alt, that works a good bit of the time.

[Shiira]

See, that is the problem of most people nowadays. They only think binary. There is only lower (0) or higher (1) Gearscore than the required one (e.g. 5600). There is only having the achievement (0) and not having the achievement (1).
But guess what, you can also try to talk to the people and hell, maybe you will know more than those two numbers mentioned above about other players afterwards.

And don't try to argue that it takes to much time to talk to people. Finding out if they know how to play and what the ehf to do by talking to them does not take longer than asking for GS+Ach in most cases (at least if you are experienced yourself, which I think most people actively using GS/Ach are not).

I don't pug so a couple of your assumptions aren't relevant to me, but I agree with some of what you said.

[sablette]

I can undertsand the pain of people linking and checking your achievments but on my server if you do't do it and you group fails, even one wipe then on averge about 30% of the raid insta leaves. if you stop to explain tactics people will leave as they say its a sign of a bad group. if you don't check for gear and people see someone with crap gear they will leave causing chain leaves. the only time you can do it without asking for achievment is if you specify it at start, it will probably take alot longer to make your group usually and you tend to get people who should be doing the first boss in voa not the newest one.

[ardoRic]

Perhaps on some.

But for some random person you bring in, take sindragosa for example when we brought in a recruit.

Recruit: So, what do I do here?
RL: Remember Saph from Naxx?
R: Yeah?
RL: That. Just dps the iceblocks down when the airphase comes.

Granted he was a really good recruit, it still is as easy as that :P

Can't have been that simple (LoS the rune on the ground, DON'T kill the blocks before the phase ends, LOS the debuff on p3)...

But yeah. good people will do well enough if they're surrounded by other people who know what they're doing.

[Arkthugal]

Can't have been that simple (LoS the rune on the ground, DON'T kill the blocks before the phase ends, LOS the debuff on p3)...

But yeah. good people will do well enough if they're surrounded by other people who know what they're doing.

Sure it could. An intelligent enough person would simply mouse over the debuff they get every so often to see what it does, say, "Oh, maybe I shouldn't cast". Avoiding that rune on the ground is pretty obvious, and he'd probably know to LoS the debuff at the end when he saw everyone else moving behind the ice block.

[epard]

This reminds of some guy starting a 10 togc pug asking for achievment and like 5.2k gs so I found him looked at his achiev which he didnt even have beasts down linked it in trade and he gto rediculed into logging and not talking in trade for a while

tl;dr raid leader is an idiot ability to listen> achievs and voa is a joke

[seam]

"Oh, maybe I shouldn't cast".

Unless your a shadowpriest or mage! Stack it up to 30, the dispersion/iceblock woot!

[Imposter]

IMO acheivements dont matter unless its a heroic raid achievement. Cause heroic raids take skill no matter what raid it is.

[seam]

raid it is.

Tell that to the dude who wouldn't let me in ToC10 the second week it was all open when I linked Firefighter =\

[Shiira]

IMO acheivements dont matter unless its a heroic raid achievement. Cause heroic raids take skill no matter what raid it is.

Apart from gunship battle, which is close enough to normal mode that it's hard to tell the difference even when you're doing it.

[ardoRic]

Tell that to the dude who wouldn't let me in ToC10 the second week it was all open when I linked Firefighter =\

You were prolly better off...

[seam]

Apart from gunship battle, which is close enough to normal mode that it's hard to tell the difference even when you're doing it.

Wait, that has a hardmode?

I thought it was just a "Heres some better loot since you killed the lich king!"

[Possiblyreefer]

Yeah i didnt notice any difference between normal and hard. I hadnt done that fight before and some asshat raiders told me there was frost giants on boats which never came.

[Egeldi]

I don't ask for achievements for VoA. Most people these days seem to be able to follow the basic instructions I blare out in raid warnings before I pull the frost warder.

I haven't tried PUGing out ICC yet, but I'd probably check people via armory to see if they have appropriate gear for it (at least ToC10 level gear), preferably with the acheiv so they have some idea of what to do.

[Shiira]

Wait, that has a hardmode?

I thought it was just a "Heres some better loot since you killed the lich king!"

I think of it as trash that happens to drop really good loot. Apart from the bracers, they don't drop ever.