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  1. #1

    Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update, Blue posts

    Update - Added today's blue posts.

    Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update
    The PTR 3.3.3 Notes. Blood Queen Lana'thel is getting slightly changed and most of the glyph changes reported last week here are now official. Nothing else really interesting in the patch as far as I can see.

    This build is a release candidate, expect the patch on March 23 if everything goes well on PTRs.

    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)


    Icecrown Citadel
    • Blood-Queen Lana'thel: Pact of the Darkfallen now applies damage twice as often, but for half the damage. This change will make the removal of the spell a bit more responsive.
    • Hellscream's Warsong and Strength of Wrynn now provide their bonuses to player pet health and damage, as well as the absorption amounts of Power Word: Shield and Sacred Shield.

    Death Knight (Forums / Talent Calculator)
    Glyphs
    • Glyph of Icebound Fortitude: Now always grants at least 40% damage reduction.

    Priest (Forums / Talent Calculator)
    Tier 10
    • Priest Tier-10 4-Piece Healing Set Bonus: Redesigned. This bonus now increases the effectiveness of the caster's Power Word: Shield by 5% and Circle of Healing by 10%.
    Glyphs
    • Glyph of Scourge Imprisonment: Now reduces the cast time of Shackle Undead by 1 second, up from 0.5 seconds.

    Rogue (Forums / Talent Calculator)
    Glyphs
    • Glyph of Deadly Throw: Now increases the slowing effect on Deadly Throw by 20%, up from 10%.
    • Glyph of Expose Armor: Now increases the duration of Expose Armor by 12 seconds, up from 10 seconds.
    • Glyph of Feint: Now reduces the energy cost of Feint by 20, up from 10.
    Blizzard at PAX East
    Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
    Members of the Blizzard community team will be at PAX East in Boston, March 26-28, hanging out at the NVIDIA booth, talking about our games, and helping to demo StarCraft II. Also at the booth, NVIDIA will be showing off World of Warcraft using their 3D Vision technology. Stop by for the stage presentation Friday at 6pm for a world's first 3D Theatre presentation on an 80 foot screen.

    If you're at the show stop by the NVIDIA booth and say hi!

    http://www.paxsite.com/paxeast/
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/paxeast.html
    Community Interviews: The Arena Master
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
    We've added yet another in-depth interview with one of World of Warcraft's millions of players for our five-year anniversary site. Luek from U.S. realm The Underbog shares his views on his last five years of dynamic and fluctuating gameplay focuses, particularly with regard to PvP, and provides some insight on where he sees himself once Cataclysm arrives. Check out the anniversary page for our full discussion.

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wowan...ary/interview/
    Blue posts
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Debuffs and Dispells
    Really though, we don't think the answer is to have a continuing arms race of dispels and dispel protection. This is why we've been so reluctant to implement a DK change in the first place, especially one that we ideally won't need in the future. The way things are headed, one could easily imagine the 4.0 glyph or talent that says "Your dispels now dispel stuff that normally can't be dispelled" and the 5.0 version that says "No, really, nothing can dispel your debuffs now," and the 6.0 one that said "Just kidding. You can dispel everything again."

    We like the general concept of dispels as a counter. Making a good decision to spend resources (including GCDs) based on what another player is doing is what allows players to win because of their skill and not just because of their gear. The problem is that dispels were designed around (antiquated) PvE content such as Molten Core, where spamming dispels was something we asked you to do frequently. A better world would be one in which a dispel was a meaningful choice, meaning they would have a real mana cost and require you to actually push a button. There needs to be a cost for dispelling at the wrong time, just as there's a cost for using your trinket or Ice Block at the wrong time. If we make this change, we'd balance the PvE encounters accordingly, such as asking you to occasionally dispel big curses (or whatever) instead of constantly remove spammy, aggravating ones. (Source)

    Bind on Account Emblems?
    We currently don't plan to do this as we feel it makes sense to run a couple of normal dungeons (possibly) on the character you'd like to gear up and then run heroics until your heart is content.

    [...] It's true that a main character can pile up a bunch of triumph/frost emblems at this point and not be too sure what to do with them. You could always make some gold via epic gems though - that will empty out your stores pretty fast.

    We mainly just want to try and keep players focused on the idea of playing a character they want to gear up and not allow their one main character to take care of a whole set of alts. (Source)

    Overpowered combat ratings in WotLK
    As players above pointed out, the ratings would have worked fine had we not introduced extra item levels of gear to support the heroic modes of the last three tiers. Now we could have nerfed your ratings then, and maybe we should have, but that would have felt pretty harsh. Maybe Icecrown Radiance felt harsh enough that we should have done that. You can also argue that we should have guessed or at least planned in the possible addition of extra tiers. Maybe we'll do that in the future. Our model though is that player stats stop advancing from level and start advancing solely from gear at the level cap. We need some target for our combat ratings because they are expressly for the purpose of preventing players from maxxing out every stat with enough gear. Having creatures in later tiers scale along with your gear is one way that we're exploring. (Source)

    Gear Scaling
    Ni, I think you're just talking about a different kind of experience. The way RPGs traditionally work is that you defeat the monsters to get better gear to challenge more powerful monsters. The goal, typically, isn't to get so powerful that the monsters are no longer a challenge. Now I understand that seeing your dodge number actually go down might be a bummer, but that's because you're looking at a percentage and not the rating (which only goes up). If we expressed health as a percentage relative to the damage done by a boss, it would behave the same way -- go down with every new tier, then start to go back up again.

    Currently, your health and armor go up, but the more powerful monsters in later dungeons hit harder. It's not that they are less of a threat to you than earlier monsters, and in many case the opposite true. It's more that you couldn't even have a hope of facing them without having amassed all of the armor you have. We're just talking about doing the same thing with other stats. It doesn't make sense that you avoid Saphiron 30% of the time, but avoid Sindragosa (who is supposed to be a much more powerful opponent and has the stats to prove it) 60% of the time. In the same way, the mage shouldn't be critting the more powerful opponent more than the weaker opponent. It just does strange things to the game, where the later bosses have to hit so much harder to make up for the fact that you're avoiding them more, which ironically (but mathematically) means that your avoidance is less valuable since it doesn't actually keep you alive.

    Really all we're talking about here is the distinction between absolute and relative differences. Bosses in higher tiers shouldn't be relatively easier to avoid. In fact, the opposite is arguably true. (Source)

    Tanking
    AE Tanking
    Yeah, we'd basically agree with that. The risk should be that the tank will die, not that the tank can't hold aggro. However I have to caveat that because otherwise any time anyone ever fails to hold aggro for whatever reason they'll blame it on their tools instead of taking some responsibility for hitting the right button or gearing correctly. Threat still needs to matter as a mechanic

    And without launching into class warfare again, we think the paladin is a little too good in the AE department so we'd rather bring them down than bring everyone else up. You also need to compare tanks at the Naxx level, not the Icecrown level for purposes of threat.

    Put succinctly, imagine all 4 tanks tank groups about as well as a warrior tanked groups in Naxx, but that the mobs hit harder and AE damage was a little lower such that you wanted to CC and single target more of the pulls (but not every pull -- there is still a place for Blizzarding them all down). That's the goal. (Source)

    Tanking Gear and Gauntlets of the Iron Furnace
    The item in question is the infamous armor pen tank gloves. At the time, players were like "Um, is this an error?" Since then, a few tanks have asked us why there weren't some dps stats to choose from in Icecrown on tank gear.

    Really though it's part of the same issue I mentioned above. We don't want every piece of gear to look the same. We don't want everything that isn't "best in slot" to be dismissed or sharded. I don't know that we can get to a world where we put crit and haste on tanking plate, but man, it would be nice for the variety, and dps stats are more useful on tanking gear than they are on healing gear.

    When I tanked in BC, I used a dps tanking weapon for the threat. I can't imagine that is widely done these days (I at least never see it) because single-target threat isn't much of an issue, and even if it was, the risk of dying to burst damage is of greater concern. Maybe we have to make all tanking gear (save druid leather obviously) only focus on survival stats and the threat and dps just come for free (except for druids who would then be OP) but that's a little unfortunate. (Source)

    Avoidance and RNG
    I just disagree with that. When I used Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch and dodged a whole bunch of hits, I felt awesome. I don't think the same item would feel as cool today, but it was awesome in early BC. I can remember a few times when the healer was down but I managed to avoid several hits in a row and we beat the boss. Is that a great gearing strategy for beating a boss? Not really. But the nice thing about random numbers is how much fun it can be when they do roll in your favor (see Las Vegas).

    [...] Of course. Part of the challenge to you as a player is to overcome bad luck (or maximize good luck). When RNG is minimized, then it's just a math problem. A savvy healer could step into a fight and pretty quickly know if they are going to have the throughput to keep you alive hit to hit and the staying power to keep doing it throughout the fight. Nothing that happens during the fight is going to change that, so all of the decisions are made in the preparation phase (gearing and choosing talents) and not when you're actually up in front of the boss. There is a reason (nearly) all role-playing games keep what is essentially that d20 roll as a key part of the combat mechanics.

    The opposite extreme is problematic also. When the effects of RNG are so overwhelming that it feels like the decisions you make are irrelevant, then you're not really playing a game -- you're just spinning a roulette wheel. I'd point to things like small chances for random stuns as an example where RNG had too large an influence.

    What I am cautioning up above is sometimes players slip into the meta-game mentality of "I would be a better tank if I didn't have to contend with RNG, therefore Blizzard should remove RNG." RNG serves an important purpose. (Source)

    Death Knight (Forums / Talent Calculator)
    Ghoul and Unholy Blight in PvP
    We left the ghoul as an Unholy focus because not every player wants to have a pet. We already have two mandatory pet classes in the game.

    We want to see how the Unholy Blight change plays out. We realize it offers more PvP viability for Unholy than the other two specs, though to be fair, Unholy was already a lot more common in PvP. We didn't want to implement three distinct mechanics of disease resistance just to see what stuck, because then it felt like we'd have to support them all forever instead of iterating on a single one that we like. If the Unholy Blight model works, then it's something we'd consider giving to all DKs in the long-term. (Source)

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Ave07's Avatar
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    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Glad to know the glyph changes are official

  3. #3

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    I have no words for how unnecessary those Rogue glyph changes are.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Faithshield's Avatar
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    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Nice change to priest tier 10.

    Hope they will continue to try make some of the other glyphs more viable, more choice is a good thing for everyone, esepcially scribes!
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  5. #5

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    there isnt a single decent rogue who uses any of those glyphs, fix my goddamn vanish instead.

  6. #6

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    me like the new 4pc priest, I can handle that.

  7. #7

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Buff rogues? O_o
    What bliz smoke.

  8. #8

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Icecrown Citadel
    • Blood-Queen Lana'thel: Pact of the Darkfallen now applies damage twice as often, but for half the damage. This change will make the removal of the spell a bit more responsive.
    • Hellscream's Warsong and Strength of Wrynn now provide their bonuses to player pet health and damage, as well as the absorption amounts of Power Word: Shield and Sacred Shield.
    Yaaaay!

    I'm still hoping to hear more about the pre cata event soon though...

  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    (4) confirmed, good.
    I heal in the Arena
    Retired Moderator - Priest and PvP
    You can follow me @UltimaMMO_C

  10. #10
    Warchief coldbear's Avatar
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    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by eylieen
    there isnt a single decent rogue who uses any of those glyphs, fix my goddamn vanish instead.
    fixing vanish is a VERY complicated task apparently, that's probably gonna take a LONG time, if it's even halfway possible

    improving a few under-used glyphs is rather easy

  11. #11

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    silly qq'ing disc priest.
    blah blah blah, I post win, sometimes.

  12. #12

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Edsin
    I have no words for how unnecessary those Rogue glyph changes are.
    Perhaps they are trying to get us rogues to use some other glyphs? I fairly sure that unless they make them give energy back they will be fairly pointless.

  13. #13

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by coldbear
    fixing vanish is a VERY complicated task apparently, that's probably gonna take a LONG time, if it's even halfway possible

    improving a few under-used glyphs is rather easy
    Well i was under the impression that the issue with vanish in PvP was that raged things(pets too) calculate the hit at the end of cast time, and apply it at the end of flight time, you also cannot CloS a shadowbolt mid air. The chnage that would have to happen is that the dmg/effects of ranged attacks needs to be sorted out when it connects with the target. This would open stuff up though like the the AP pryoblast getting reflected after it is in the air. Pets just need to be treated as NPC's and not ranged attacks. so like a mob, "oh hey it's gone, i wonder where it went, ohh well i'll go back to doing something else now." would fix 90% of my pvp issues with vanish.

    In PvE i'd just like for vanish to keep me out of combat as long as i don't take dmg. So if i pop it was the tank and a pally healer left up, 45seconds later when they die the mobs don't turn into heat seeking missiles and come kill me. This would seem to be done by simply making vanish have a "remove combat" pulse every .25 seconds for the duration of the buff. No immunities, no dmg reduction. If the PvE rogue id dumb enough to pop it while standing in fire, too bad. The way it is we can already vanish immune things in PvE, Saurfangs mark for example.

  14. #14

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Glyph of Scourge Imprisonment looks like its possibly op in 3s.

    This might make people buy glyphs again, too.

  15. #15

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    They would have to make the slowing effing like 80% for Deadly Throw for someone to even consider using it... even then I doubt anyone would waste a spot on it.

  16. #16

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by mochaomhog
    Well i was under the impression that the issue with vanish in PvP was that raged things(pets too) calculate the hit at the end of cast time, and apply it at the end of flight time, you also cannot CloS a shadowbolt mid air. The chnage that would have to happen is that the dmg/effects of ranged attacks needs to be sorted out when it connects with the target. This would open stuff up though like the the AP pryoblast getting reflected after it is in the air. Pets just need to be treated as NPC's and not ranged attacks. so like a mob, "oh hey it's gone, i wonder where it went, ohh well i'll go back to doing something else now." would fix 90% of my pvp issues with vanish.

    In PvE i'd just like for vanish to keep me out of combat as long as i don't take dmg. So if i pop it was the tank and a pally healer left up, 45seconds later when they die the mobs don't turn into heat seeking missiles and come kill me. This would seem to be done by simply making vanish have a "remove combat" pulse every .25 seconds for the duration of the buff. No immunities, no dmg reduction. If the PvE rogue id dumb enough to pop it while standing in fire, too bad. The way it is we can already vanish immune things in PvE, Saurfangs mark for example.

    If things were calculated when they landed than a mage could PoM/Pyro and THAN click AP/trinkets/etc before it lands and we would be back to mages insta gibbing. It's not a trivial fix for many reasons. Also what happens if a mage were to shoot a fireball and die before it landed? whats modifiers would that fireball take and would it do damage in your scenario?
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thunderlord&n=Draginclaw

  17. #17

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Myeh, even those aren't that interesting.

    Didn't you already post those glyphs last week though BB?

    Author of: Goggle Cat Comics.

  18. #18

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by bbr
    Myeh, even those aren't that interesting.

    Didn't you already post those glyphs last week though BB?
    Pretty sure he did, but he was just pointing out the blood queen change and the general 'ptr 3.3.3 patchnotes' sticky got changed.

  19. #19

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by bbr
    Myeh, even those aren't that interesting.

    Didn't you already post those glyphs last week though BB?
    He data mined them last week, this is the official patch-note describing them.

  20. #20

    Re: Patch 3.3.3 - PTR Notes Update

    Quote Originally Posted by d9d9
    Buff rogues? O_o
    What bliz smoke.
    Hope you be trollin' cause if not you're a retard!

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