Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    25m H V&T Help/Tips?

    So my guild just finished our 3rd night of wipes on H V&T and I'm looking for any helpful advice. Our best attempts so far have them at ~15% around the 2nd time Valiona comes down is when things generally start to fall apart.

    We raid with 2 rogues and 3 mages, we have the rogues down there the whole time and mages rotating in the twilight realm along with healers something like this:

    1. First dazzling destruction: 2 Rogues, 1 Mage, Holy Pally
    2. First tank ports in (we switch tanks at 3 stacks, so this is when the 2nd tank hits 5 this usually happens soon after Theralion comes down): 1 Mage 1 Holy Pally (other mage and pally comes out)
    3. Second tank ports in (After deep breath when Valiona comes down): Resto Druid, Mage (other mage and pally come up)

    That's the plan at least. Usually along the way a rogue or 2 die usually during #2 and #3 when there's no healer down there at all. We had everyone come out of twilight realm during deep breath for a while but waiting for them (rogues) to get ported back down afterwards too many adds spawned and rifts got out of control.

    I know this all might be a little scattered, if you need to know anything else let me know, I should mention it's not only the twilight realm either but the people dying to stupid shit up top is pretty self explanatory. Thanks for any tips/advice in advance.

  2. #2
    Deaths are absolutely not permitted on this fight. You can't have anyone die at any point at all. Every death means one less target for adds, meaning the add damage will intensify on the remaining people.

  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dota 2 24/7 / Dark Souls II
    Posts
    21,557
    All I can really say if people are dying to ''stupid shit'' you aren't going to kill that encounter despite it's been hardcore nerfed, It's still brutally relentless in terms of deaths as the user above me says, every death = More raid damage

  4. #4
    if you use a DK tank, AMS completely blocks the application of the debuff, and your tanks need not go under at all. not sure if bubble removes it, but that's another thought.

    it may not be a huge amount of healing, but anything else that you can spend your healing on is a good thing.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Resentful View Post
    All I can really say if people are dying to ''stupid shit'' you aren't going to kill that encounter despite it's been hardcore nerfed, It's still brutally relentless in terms of deaths as the user above me says, every death = More raid damage
    Yeah, it's kind of a situation where "if it isnt one thing it's another". If we have it flawless up top, then a rogue dies below etc.

    If anything we need the tanks going in, cause when the tanks go in we can send other people to go in which can only help.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dota 2 24/7 / Dark Souls II
    Posts
    21,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Mootykins View Post
    Yeah, it's kind of a situation where "if it isnt one thing it's another". If we have it flawless up top, then a rogue dies below etc.

    If anything we need the tanks going in, cause when the tanks go in we can send other people to go in which can only help.
    Rogue dying bellow? Tell him to stop being awful <.<

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Resentful View Post
    Rogue dying bellow? Tell him to stop being awful <.<
    Yeah I'm not exactly sure what the issue is, but when they don't have a healer down there they don't survive very long. It's usually not bombs either, usually just the dot ticks.. I'm not exactly sure what they may be doing wrong

  8. #8
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dota 2 24/7 / Dark Souls II
    Posts
    21,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Mootykins View Post
    Yeah I'm not exactly sure what the issue is, but when they don't have a healer down there they don't survive very long. It's usually not bombs either, usually just the dot ticks.. I'm not exactly sure what they may be doing wrong
    Ask him if hes feinting on every CD in addition what number of shadow buffs is he ''CoS'ing'' upon?

    Like literally if hes not killing himself with bombs, then it's obviously hes not keeping up recuperate/feinting every CD as shadow passive is the thing only thing killing him

  9. #9
    Just to be sure, what # of stacks should he be cloaking on? Around 20 or something right? I think that's what I read last time, I'll definitely have to talk to them, I did find it a little weird how quick they die without a healer down there.

  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dota 2 24/7 / Dark Souls II
    Posts
    21,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Mootykins View Post
    Just to be sure, what # of stacks should he be cloaking on? Around 20 or something right? I think that's what I read last time, I'll definitely have to talk to them, I did find it a little weird how quick they die without a healer down there.
    I haven't been down in the realm forever, we usually zerg it now. If I remember correctly when we we're doing it; I believe we cloaked around 30-50 stacks. One time I was a moron and forgot to go in the other realm and my other guildie managed 70

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Resentful View Post
    Rogue dying bellow? Tell him to stop being awful <.<

    Hey, I die bellow... If the mages hit bombs on me.

  12. #12
    Wil focus on the shadow realm part as outside is pretty much normal mode buisness.

    1. (1st round of dazzling, take the 2nd or 3rd swirl): 2 rogues, 2 mages, holy paladin.
    Mages leave with the holy paladin at around 20 stacks and doesn't even use IB as there isn't any need for it with the adds amount left down there.

    2. (goes down with the tank): Spriest, hunter, resto druid

    3. (goes down through dazzling): Holy paladin, 2 other random ranged DPS I can't remember


    Except for the rogues it doesn't really matter what you take down. Also our rogues come out normally a bit before the deep breath and get some heals, as deep breath down there is pretty random. They will go down with the next group going.

  13. #13
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dota 2 24/7 / Dark Souls II
    Posts
    21,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Enhshamanlol View Post
    Hey, I die bellow... If the mages hit bombs on me.
    Okay tell your mages to stop being awful as well then :P

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Resentful View Post
    Okay tell your mages to stop being awful as well then :P

    I know right?, Btw you should so quit your 13/13 guild and join mine. I hate being the only raiding rogue.

  15. #15
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dota 2 24/7 / Dark Souls II
    Posts
    21,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Enhshamanlol View Post
    I know right?, Btw you should so quit your 13/13 guild and join mine. I hate being the only raiding rogue.
    I'm well respected here already :3

  16. #16
    The way we handle the shadowrealm is just send myself and our other rogue in and we just lock it down ourselves with little to no assistance. If something does go wrong and we need help catching our hp back up we have a holy pally come in a the next transition top us off and get out. For the most part your rogues should be able to keep themselves up as long as they are sub and have taken the talents necessary. As most every1 has mentioned in this thread, Feinting on cooldown, Cloaking on cooldown after cloaking the initial 20-25 stack and keeping 100% recoup uptime are key. Saving Healthstones and healing potions incase of a mistake also is very helpful, i usually keep some mysterious potions on me. The only things that can really kill a rogue inside is gonna be hitting a orb (be very careful using Shadowstep), or getting hit by a transition ability (Deep breath and Dazzling Destruction). The only time we have ever let a tank ported in was to get our holy pally for an emergency mistake we made inside.

    Tips i have.

    -Don't try to send to many people in, we ran into the problem of running out of adds when we used more than 2 rogues.
    -Go in with the 3rd dazzling destruction (3 sets of 3 spawn per transition phase) with feint and a fresh recoup up.
    -Use the boss or whatever else you can find to keep Feint and Recoup up during deepbreaths. It is also helpful to have some calling out the deep breaths because you have you handfuls dodging all the orbs and stuff as it is inside.
    -Rupture is not worth keeping up on the adds inside (atleast imo) so just use glyph of hemo, hemo once to get a bleed up for the dmg bonus.
    -Use Shadowstep more for a dmg cd, rather than moving from add to add, in my experience the orbs move and hide inside of the adds and its not worth the risk.
    -If you have to, port out, you can get back in and save a battle rez.
    -Dps doesn't have to be maximized inside, stay alive 1st.
    -Dazzling Flames (the big void zone circles) do not hurt you.
    Last edited by Ninjawhite; 2011-06-03 at 01:15 PM.

  17. #17
    We are using only one group to go into shadow realm.

    2 rogues, 2 mages and 1 holy paladin.

    They go in from 2nd Dazzling, and they kill like 5-6 mobs inside and after that they will come out.
    At this time tank has about 3 stacks and after 4th stack, same group will stack on tank and go in with him.
    3rd time they will go in from next Dazzlings. 2 rogues stays inside as long as they can.

  18. #18
    Are your rogues spec'd Sub and your Mage spec'd frost? The rogues should be able to keep themselves alive for a long, long time with cloak to wipe stacks (first cloak at 10 stacks iirc) and keeping recuperate up as close to 100% of the time as possible. The mage can ice block (first block at 10 stacks iirc) use Evocation when needed, reset the CDs, and do it again.

    When my guild does this, we send down two rogues and a frost mage with the first Dazzling Destruction, but then we don't send a healer down until one phase switch later when a tank hits 5 stacks. Until that point the Rogues/Mages should be able to keep themselves up. After that point they will have a healer (we use a paladin) who can keep everyone alive for a long long time (resetting their own stacks with bubble) while the mage and rogue wait for the CDs to come off. The Paladin will have to leave eventually but the rogues / mages can stay since they will be at full health and their CDs will be up.

    You really can't have stupid damage being taken in the twilight realm though. Touch bombs with high stacks will kill your DPS if they don't have a healer down there with them (or sometimes even if there is a healer down there with them).

    This fight is about control and execution more than raw DPS or HPS. You really need as many people to stay alive as possible, you really need your Twilight Realm team to be as effective as possible without dying, and you really need your players in the normal realm to limit incoming damage as much as possible.

    DK

    DK

  19. #19
    Yeah, rogues & mages dying in the shadow realm is personal fail on their part. If they think they are going to die they need to get out, tho they really should be able to keep themselves alive for a long time. We first killed this fight with no rogues, so if they keep sucking simply send someone else down instead (or bench them ), they are far from vital here.

  20. #20
    Your rogues are most likey shadowstepping into the orbs that float around in the middle of the adds and takign unneccesary damage like that. We do it on 10M so it might be a little different, but our mages/rogues fail so we stopped sending them into the twilight realm. On our first kill, I (Fury warr) actually hopped inside the twilight realms with the glyphs for self heals and talented self healing as well and was able to handle the adds by myself pretty easily (got to 50 stacks on the kill, but consistently low 40's before hopping out) since victory rush procs off of every add, and heals you for 55-65k. If you're finding yourself getting overwhelmed with adds maybe you can try sending a fury warrior down for just one phase since we're pretty mobile during that fight with leaps and intercept refreshes.
    Also, don't know if I missed seeing what tank comp you run with, but DK's AMS will prevent the stacks from coming up, and pallys can bubble their stacks off; we use 2 prot pallies on 10M and they hold the boss forever with natural avoidance + bubble at 4 stacks.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •