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  1. #141

    Re: The "Stam is all that matters" tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by iglocska

    Block is utterly crap at the moment unless you're talking about heroics (but really who gears for heroics?) - blocking 3k damage from a 20k hit as opposed to blocking 2k won't make a big difference.
    than how big of a difference could 1k health make? I went from gem for for socket bonuses to pure stam gemming and lost almost 1% of avoidance for 650hp, was that worth it?
    Whether the world's greatest gnats or the world's greatest heroes, you're still only mortal!

  2. #142

    Re: The "Stam is all that matters" tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWiggles
    than how big of a difference could 1k health make? I went from gem for for socket bonuses to pure stam gemming and lost almost 1% of avoidance for 650hp, was that worth it?
    regearing to a full block build as what I mentioned earlier would be a MUCH bigger difference than 1k HP (I have a block set that I used to use for anub and I lost about 6-7k HP with it).

    Also as for the 1% avoidance vs the 650hp, I'd say it was worth it though generally 1% avoidance should equal more than 650 hp.

  3. #143

    Re: The "Stam is all that matters" tanks

    Tanks stack stam because it is the most visible stat to others. People can click on you and see 40K HP, they can't look at you and see 50% dodge. Plus, dodge and all other stats "cap" or suffer from diminishing returns which stamina does not. So with regard to socketing stamina, YES. There are many cases where matching a socket for a stam bonus (or agility as a druid) makes sense. That's another discussion so I won't derail this thread.

    Using trinkets like the brewfest ones is just stupid. I'll grant the benefit of the doubt and assume it's an alt or an offspec just to get queued faster, or that maybe they just haven't come across anything better, but NO: Stam at the expense of all else=a fail tank. This is an indication that that player doesn't understand tanking or has fallen into the trap of, low hp=bad tank. Your HP is like a gauge on how progressed you are in a sense since higher gear=higher HP.

    But to have an HP requirement is silly and ill informed. How is <30K HP going to make you a better tank? It's not, it'll only give a healer more time to react when your poor avoidance fails you.
    I can teach you how to play, but I can't fix stupid.

  4. #144

    Re: The "Stam is all that matters" tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by iglocska
    I don't think anyone gears for farm content and if say totc10 is progression content for you and your guild, then it's all about EH stacking again. Simple as that, if you're one of those casual tanks that logs in every now and then to run a random daily heroic for frost emblems only but doesn't raid (there are plenty of people like this and nothing wrong with that!) then yes, gear for block.
    A lot of tanks actually do have gearsets around for farm content and other old content. It usually is hit capped, expertise soft-capped, then stacking avoidance and armor primarily. They're used to make things go smoother when clearing to progression fights, or making achievement runs faster. That's the thing, EH gearing is primarily to make content you're under geared for easier. You can add an extra tank healer or two and it's fine. When you're not under-geared for the content and you don't need to just throw heals at a meat-wall then tanks who take less damage is preferred. It's come up a lot recently because ICC's damage is actually significantly lower on tanks than in ToGC, but also not as spiky. Basically what it did is make all the old guilds farming ToGC enter ICC without being under-geared at all. So as you get T10 taking less damage became more important than having higher EH.

    Seriously, the OP was talking about 10 man Ulduar. Not even the hard parts, just Razorscale. Not even the hard part of Razorscale, but the adds. The requirement is like 30k health 25k armor buffed. Stamina stacking doesn't make you easier to heal, it makes you live longer without heals. Squishy tanks are really, really easy to spot.

  5. #145

    Re: The "Stam is all that matters" tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    A lot of tanks actually do have gearsets around for farm content and other old content. It usually is hit capped, expertise soft-capped, then stacking avoidance and armor primarily. They're used to make things go smoother when clearing to progression fights, or making achievement runs faster. That's the thing, EH gearing is primarily to make content you're under geared for easier. You can add an extra tank healer or two and it's fine. When you're not under-geared for the content and you don't need to just throw heals at a meat-wall then tanks who take less damage is preferred. It's come up a lot recently because ICC's damage is actually significantly lower on tanks than in ToGC, but also not as spiky. Basically what it did is make all the old guilds farming ToGC enter ICC without being under-geared at all. So as you get T10 taking less damage became more important than having higher EH.

    Seriously, the OP was talking about 10 man Ulduar. Not even the hard parts, just Razorscale. Not even the hard part of Razorscale, but the adds. The requirement is like 30k health 25k armor buffed. Stamina stacking doesn't make you easier to heal, it makes you live longer without heals. Squishy tanks are really, really easy to spot.
    I'm pretty sure the discussion wasn't about obscure off-sets used for farm content, as I said, I do also have a BV set that is completely differently gemmed / enchanted, but when talking about tank gearing I will of course not refer to that set but my main progression set.


    But to have an HP requirement is silly and ill informed. How is <30K HP going to make you a better tank? It's not, it'll only give a healer more time to react when your poor avoidance fails you.
    This again is a big misconception. Even your awesome full avoidance gear can fail you. RNG is random. You may have a 35% chance to avoid hits in ICC in your EH set or a 42% chance in your avoidance set. You can get unlucky and take 5-6 hits in a row with both, though with the latter it's somewhat less likely to happen as often, however it will happen with both, and a high EH will, as you said, give your healers more time to react. Since mana isn't really an issue in wotlk this should be no problem.

  6. #146

    Re: The "Stam is all that matters" tanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Minia
    Eh I made a comment on him being squishy and said maybe he needed more armor and he said armor didn't mean anything compared to stam. That's all.
    If there were armor gems I would go for it for sure. Atleast work a fair amount of them into my gemming choices. Armor is a fantastic stat, and just scales better as the incoming damage increases. Any tank who thinks armor is useless is obviously ill-informed. I cant remember what forum I read it on but someone had does some theory crafting on armor vs. stam and im sure it was related to the triumph badge trinket, but it pretty much made the triumph trinket far superior for EH compared to the brewfest or other comparable trinkets in a 3min+ ICC fight I dont remember the boss. Of course stat worth is comparable to the encounter, but stam and armor atleast are always predictable and as a tank I like to be predictable

    Edit*** before I mistakenly put blackheart instead of Brewfest, edit to correct myself.

  7. #147
    Blademaster
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    Re: The "Stam is all that matters" tanks

    The stam only tank is really affected by the level of gear that hey are using.

    From my experience of healing in raids on either of my priests I find that when it comes to Icc the tanks tat have icc standard gear are fine to just stack stam in terms of trinkets gems etc as they have enough avoidnce on their gear to give them reasonable avoidance along with the hig armor and HP.

    The tanks that I have struggled with that seem to believe stam is the only stat that matters are generally tanks in lower levels of gear as this gear does not supply enough avoidance in order for the tank to just focus on stam stacking wth his/her gems enchants trinkets etc.With these tanks its like healing a defenless bunny thats being attacked by a monster truck!

    So although I'm no trying to sound like a gear nazi, gear makes a difference in how much a tank can afford to stam stack.
    Stam stacking in hig quality gear that carries plenty of avoidance on it = fine
    Stam stacking in gear with next to no avoidance= bad squishy bunny tank


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