Feral Tank looking for help.

[gotpriest]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...athwing&cn=Fur

Brand new Feral tank looking for help.

Used the cookie cutter spec in the stickied thread, ran a few heroics, this is where I am.

38.4k Unbuffed Health
41.07% Dodge
28454 Armor

Known Weaknesses:
Cloak: Getting 264 Frost Badge by weeks end. Enchanting with 22 Agility
Feet: Getting HoR or ToC boots when they drop. Enchanting with god knows what.

Unknown Weaknesses:

Thats what I need help with!

Thanks in advance!

[Silchias]

-Go for the 228 stam trinket and Idol from frost badges
-Never gem for Yellow socket bonuses, socket 30 stam gems
-You only need 1 red gem, a purple 10 agi/15 stam is sufficient, you're free to go pure stam for all other sockets
-Tuskarr's Vitality is good for boots
-Get expertise soft capped (26), along with hit this is your best threat stat. Ikfrus sack of wonder and the ICC boots are more than enough to get you there without gemming.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Tillindemann
here are my gemming/enchanting choices

[Elexir]

You look fine, except for a few things:

1. Get Mongoose on your weapon! The Fordragon Blades are a good weapon, unless you're about to replace it I'd do it!

2. Your shoulder enchant you can replace with the PvP one for 10,000 honor. The dodge on the one you have is nice, but the stamina/resilience beats that out.

3. And the PvP belt should get replaced by something PvE. PvP gear works decent for bear tanks, but it just doesn't have the survival you can find on some other belts, like the Leatherworking Craftable ones.

4. 228 stam trinket would be a good upgrade.

5. Like Silchias said, never gem yellow socket bonuses, only socket 30 stam gems. You can use a purple gem like he said for your Meta Gem requirement, or you can use a Nightmare Tear (10 all stats)

6. Tuskarr's Vitality is more than likely what you'll want to go for on the boots.

[gotpriest]

Apparently haven't logged out/in enough - already have Mongoose on, thanks for the help : ). Would the 30 Stams really be worth the loss in Dodge?

[Silchias]

Remember that dodge is nerfed in ICC, I assume you are aiming at tanking there. That 30 stam, with all the mutipliers will offer more survivability than the +4 or +6 agi socket bonuses will. Feel free to go with 10 agi/15 stam in red sockets, some even go 20 agi for the armor/crit it offers, but since your health is still a little low for a bear tank, stam should be priority now. Keep in mind that because bear use "rogue" gear our agi is fairly high without gemming, translating to naturally high dodge/crit/armor. Overdoing agi to get more dodge will also lead to diminshing returns. Just follow the advice about avoid yellow sockets like the plague.

[Silchias]

3. And the PvP belt should get replaced by something PvE. PvP gear works decent for bear tanks, but it just doesn't have the survival you can find on some other belts, like the Leatherworking Craftable ones.

The belt from the 1st boss in Regular Pit of Saron is nice

[Sunshine]

2. Your shoulder enchant you can replace with the PvP one for 10,000 honor. The dodge on the one you have is nice, but the stamina/resilience beats that out.

No way. There's no way that 30 stam beats out the avoidance gain of defense + dodge. If you really need the stam, get it from gems or an enchant somewhere else (e.g., boots), but don't sacrifice that much on shoulders. The resilience is completely worthless, so it's just a huge waste of stat points.

5. Like Silchias said, never gem yellow socket bonuses, only socket 30 stam gems. You can use a purple gem like he said for your Meta Gem requirement, or you can use a Nightmare Tear (10 all stats)

There are cases where a yellow socket bonus is worth gemming for; in those, Nightmare Tear or def/stam gem are both valid options.

Remember that dodge is nerfed in ICC, I assume you are aiming at tanking there.

Dodge is not "nerfed" -- there's a flat 20% reduction off the top. There's no loss in the avoidance gained by a point of agi, though -- it's not saying "take your dodge and multiply by 0.8", which would be a true nerf.

That 30 stam, with all the mutipliers will offer more survivability than the +4 or +6 agi socket bonuses will. Feel free to go with 10 agi/15 stam in red sockets, some even go 20 agi for the armor/crit it offers, but since your health is still a little low for a bear tank, stam should be priority now. Keep in mind that because bear use "rogue" gear our agi is fairly high without gemming, translating to naturally high dodge/crit/armor. Overdoing agi to get more dodge will also lead to diminshing returns. Just follow the advice about avoid yellow sockets like the plague.

Always make sure you have enough HP; that I agree with. Going full agi in sockets is probably not going to happen, especially if you're undergeared. However, some socket bonuses *are* worth gemming for. Look at this helm, for example: 8 agi socket bonus for a single yellow gem? There's no reason to not take that! It's too good. As I said earlier, def/stam or nightmare tear are equally valid here.

Beyond that piece, if you need to sacrifice only one color gem, it's definitely worth at least considering; e.g., I agree with the agi/stam gem in the pants.


For the rest of the gear:

- I'd recommend grabbing the Glyph of Indomitability from triumph badges when you get a chance; the skeleton key (228 stam) is also a nice upgrade. Replace the Fervor of the Frostborn first; the Black Heart is a great trinket.

- For tanking, the conquest idol beats out the triumph idol -- 153 agi provides more overall mitigation (via armor) than 200 dodge, plus it also provides crit for threat and bear bubble.

- Replace your dps ring with a tank one when you can. The ICC rep ring is great.

- Go for T10 bonuses as soon as possible (after replacing the really truly necessary pieces). Both 2- and 4-piece set bonuses are great. Keep 2T9+2T10 until you have 4T10, though. Make sure to leave out the chest; eventually you should try to pick up the Sack of Wonder for that.

[Mrbora2k]

What are your professions? If your not maxed at 450 (or even if you are) I would go mining/JC. You get 60 sta from having mining at 450, and 3x51sta gems for 450 JC. 213 sta when multiplied by 25% in bear is huge.

[Quehn]

Hey.

Enchants

Your cloak enchant should be 225 armor instead of 22 agility as some might suggest.

Your glove enchant should be 18 stamina (Heavy Borean Leather Kit Thing), instead of 22 agility

Shoulder should be the pvp one with 30 stamina / 15 resilience regardless of what people say. Druids are not used as avoidance tanks, but rather soakers (for instance Queen offtanking).

Rest of your enchants look fine.

Gems

Your meta gem is the best.

All your other gems except one should be 30 stamina.
The exception should be either 10 agility / 15 stamina or 10 expertise / 15 stamina.
Ofc. if you are expertise hard capped go for agility else go for expertise.

Glyphs

Survival Instincts - Overall awesome glyph
Frenzied Regeneration - Or Maul if you are not raiding
Growl - otherwise without 8% hit you might miss on taunt and wipe on Festergut

Talents

If you have 4 set Tier 10
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...L,OHNq3O,11623

If you dont have 4 set Tier 10
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...x,OHNq3O,11623

If you dont raid with a somebody with imp. TC or Frost Fever or like
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...Y,OHNq3O,11623


That's my advice. Should cover all your concerns

[Surlykke]

Your glove enchant should be 18 stamina (Heavy Borean Leather Kit Thing), instead of 22 agility

Shoulder should be the pvp one with 30 stamina / 15 resilience regardless of what people say. Druids are not used as avoidance tanks, but rather soakers (for instance Queen offtanking).

Going all out for stamina as you suggest is ONLY considered valid if you are undergeared for the content or its a gimmick fight. If you are on par or even a bit overgeared for the content you wish to tank, you should mix gems and maybe even socket for tps. If you are going to tank a wide variety of bosses and mobs, avoidance IS a valid stat to be concerned about, and just because Bears can get a large HP pool, doesn't mean that stamina is the "end all" stat. If 68k+ HP was required for tanking a boss in ICC, regardless of your avoidance, then why are other guilds using DK's, pala's and warrior tanks ? Stamina is good, but ITS RELATIVE in comparison to the content and your gear !

There is NO WAY 18stam>22agi, no way. And pvp shoulder enchant is crap, end of story.

Its a constant mystery why so many bears socket/enchant for Effective Health. If EH was the deal breaker, then why weren't we using the Polar Set in ulduar ? Because its was crap!

So plz use common sense in regards to what you socket and enchant, its not as simple as just going all out on stamina.

[frester]

fix your spec, get rid of imp. mangle as it's almost useless and get MS as this is 4% more dmg vs imp. mangle and 2 wasted talents.

also do not drop infected wounds ever as this is essential tanking talent and there is no way you can count for anyone beside you to get that as warriors need to be prot to give you that, dk had to spec for it which they usually don't and pala needs to be prot, so there is good chance that you won't get that debuff or you will get weaker version (don't count on other tank as they usually tank something different) and it is 20% less damage on you which is huge!

[Richmond]

Please dont listen to Quehn, hes either never played a Druid, a bad druid or if he does raid - then i feel sorry for his healers. Only take onboard what he has said about the glyphs and about the shoulder enchant. Everything else is a load of shit.

Especially his gemming idea's are garbage, Gemming Exp? Aiming for hard cap? Are you just trying to play with us or something?

For gemming, as a general rule. If the socket bonus is worth it (9 Stam / 6+ agil) then gem for it! And yes, even if its a yellow socket! 10 Def / 15 stamina is and always will be a viable gem for a yellow socket, even on a bear.

Blue - 30 Stam
Red - 10 Agil / 15 Stam (Unless your rocking something like 62k HP with 50% dodge, i'd never gem for a straight 20 Agi)
Yellow - IF the socket bonus is worth it (9 Stam / 6+ Agi) then go with a 10 Def / 15 stam - personally i'd want the socket bonus to be 8+ Agi, but different people have different suggestions

I didn't get as far to checking his talent selection, but you want to be going for MSS, regardless of your gear (with or without T10). The T10 bonus didn't change anything to our spec, your either go with MSS or Imp Mangle, never spec into King of The Jungle, is a junk talent and you will never use a threat increasing talent at the same time as a damage reduction talent, period.

Frester - Spot on, never drop Infect Wounds. You need this debuff to be on your current target all the time, you can't rely on another class to apply it for you. Like i've read before, a tank not speccing into this is like a caster no speccing into a talent that increases there spell power by 20%. This is our thunderclap, until they give us an ability that will stack it automatically. Always max this talent out.

Armor on cloak will never beat 22 agil (roughly 0.45% dodge), same with stam in gloves 20 agi (0.4%).

Carry around a selection of trinkets (Dodge, armor and stamina) because different fights call for different stats.

Listen to Sunshine, he's always spot on with his posts - Look at his previous posts if you need any more information.

Last bit, just remember, dont follow the sheep that went 'Oh, chill of the throne cut 20% off our dodge, now dodge is useless and we should just gem stam ftw'. Dodge is as important a stat as it ever has been.

/rant

[Alski]

Listen to Sunshine, she's always spot on with her posts - Look at her previous posts if you need any more information.

^ fixed that for you.

[Cheezee]

^ fixed that for you.

Still looks like a mess to me. :P

[Deleted]

just a little note, the trinket from ick and krick from PoS hc gives like 2,4% dodge and the 4,6k hp is nice

im having like 8 tank trinkets black heart, 228 sta, icks, 2x brewfest, AN hc, totc25, triumph and 1 more (cant remember).

normaly, i use icks and 228 sta one, together in a macro and barkskin+survial instincts+fenrized regen and im 1 huge meat shield

[Alski]

I think its time you vendored your brewfest trinkets since you already have 2 that provide more stam for magic fights

[gotpriest]

One of you recommended dropping Fervor of the Frostborn for the Glyph of Indomitability. Is it really worth dropping 1.5-2% dodge for a 7% bonus in Armor?

[HoTcOw]

oh my oh my oh my.
you are all confusing this poor druid. first things first, Quehn is not as far off his rocker as Richmond seems to think.
the cloak enchant is debatable 22 agil or 225 armor are almost the same in mitigation of damage. as far as the yellow socket is concerned 8agi 8def 15 stam =/= 30 stam. 8 agi gives .17% dodge. 8 def give .32% dodge. therefore all things taken into accoutn you have sacrificed 150 health for less than 1/2 a percent of dodge. Equal? i think not.
2nd: If you have 4 piece t10 your enrage ability will no longer reduce armor by 16% in bear from and instead increases damage taken. Combine this with the points from KOTJ where you get a DAMAGE increase as well makes this talent a great way to produce burst threat as well as making it a weak defensive cooldown. The points you can remove from Master Shapeshifter and natural shapeshifter (or furor even since i have not yet had to powershift in icc) can easily allow for this talent to be taken.
3rd.as far as infected wounds goes. really it's not necessary. Other tanks do fine without it, and my bear spec doesn't have it in it either and i have 0 issues with survivability. Does that mean you shouldn't take it? no, for the points you spend it is a nice talent to have but not a necessary one.
and lastly. Is dodge as important as it was previously, yes. However is stacking it as useful as previously? NO! the bosses in icc still hit for more damage (overall) than the bosses did in ToC. Yet you are dodging ~20% fewer hits. that being said if you can find some way to get over 40% dodge without a trinket proc in icc then more power to you. Until then EFFECTIVE HP is better than RNG.

[Deleted]

I think its time you vendored your brewfest trinkets since you already have 2 that provide more stam for magic fights

hehe, they cant be vendored, only destroyed :P but i like the dwarf lady (noot)

[Deleted]

If you have 4 piece t10 your enrage ability will no longer reduce armor by 16% in bear from and instead increases damage taken.

2 things:
1: enrage DO NOT reduce your armor by 16%, its 16% of your base armor. i cant remember how much it is, but i belive its like 4%...
2: the 4p tier 10 bonus dont increase but decreases damage taken, increased damage taken would be kinda stupid lol