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  1. #1

    LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    So, I haven't been playing Priest very long. Hit 80 shortly after Blizzcon '09, didn't start gearing up PvE gear until around October-November. I started out Disc, since I was coming from Disc PvP so I knew the spec enough to jump into heroic healing, after 2-3 pieces of t9 from badges, I switched to Holy and have been strictly Holy for PvE ever since. I enjoy the play-style and the variation of style available in the spec.

    Until recently, being the only cloth healer in our normal ToC25 & ICC25 runs (granted not overly far through ICC25), I've gotten geared up faster than other healers in the guild, however, lately, the Shaman and Druids that we normally run with are starting to catch up to me in gear. I used to have no problems topping charts and in general carrying my weight. However, recently I feel I'm just starting to fall behind. The past 2 weeks, I've been last or second to last on Festergut, where I used to be first or second every week for the previous month. It's happening on other fights too, overall I sit around the middle simply because I can mold to the different fight styles, and I'm strictly a healer whereas some healers do the cannons on the gunship, since it can be 2-3 healed easily even on 25 man, not needing 6 healers for Saurfang, etc.

    It's not by much, and I'm not being explicitly asked to switch, but I'm beginning to wonder if I wouldn't do more service to our runs if I switched to Disc. We have an occasional Disc/Holy Priest that runs with us on occasion, but lately he hasn't been around. From my understanding of Holy & Disc, gemming for one hinders the effectiveness of the other if going Disc/Holy dual-spec using 1 set of gear. I think gear-wise my gear itself is ok for Disc, but I'm not very well versed on Disc gemming/gearing. Going by wow-heroes and looking at the "top" geared Disc Priests on my server, as I said my gear itself seems to be good, not perfect, but good enough. Gemming seems like it'll need to change to be playing Disc properly.

    We normally run with 1-2 Resto Druids, 1-2 Resto Shaman, me and occasionally another Priest, at least 1 Holy paladin (occasionally a second), some mix to get to 5-6 healers depending what we're doing that night.


    So I guess there's a few questions. Would I be able to switch to Disc with the gear I have and if so, what gem's would I have to change, I'm assuming I can keep most of the pure SP gems and just swap out the SP+Haste & SP+Crit gems, but even those are 8 gems. Is there a middle ground gemming-wise where I can have my gear be effective for both Disc and Holy? (I recently obtained Death Surgeon's Sleeves, no gems yet)

    Also, I understand the whole PW:S is powerful thing and the other tools are all really useful and nice, but would a raid-healing(/damage-prevention) oriented Disc spec be more beneficial?

    Any constructive criticism is welcome, and please none of the "play what you like best", I know the mantra, I'm fine with either one, I'm looking for what will benefit the guild and general information of the potential using 1 set of gear for both specs.

    Link to my Priest in sig.

  2. #2

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    If your raid group doesnt have a disc priest with them every week, then yes, switch. The benefits a discipline priest brings to any raid are many and powerful. I would certainly advise a switch, if you enjoy the playstyle.

  3. #3

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Because of the unique nature of shields, you will contribute more as Disc if you are undergeared. If you are undergeared as holy, you're just worse than everyone else. If you're undergeared as Disc, at least you're still provided something else no other healer can do as well.

  4. #4

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Quote Originally Posted by cruxxy
    Because of the unique nature of shields, you will contribute more as Disc if you are undergeared. If you are undergeared as holy, you're just worse than everyone else. If you're undergeared as Disc, at least you're still provided something else no other healer can do as well.
    I realize I'm not very well geared, but undergeared? I don't really think of my gear as undergeared. Unless you meant in reference to, making the switch to Disc, the gear would be sup-par for it's level?

  5. #5

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Disc is amazing for any pulsing damage fight, like blood queen / putricide / sin / LK. Shield botting becomes kinda bleh once in awhie but other than that it's a very fun class. Althor's abacus is kinda meh for disc in my opinion, and I'd go for purified lunar dust (Badges) instead. The gear seems alright, but I myself get haste from gear and not gems. I get it from gear BECAUSE I want to be able to switch back and forth holy / disc. I have over 600 (I don't go holy often and use PoH as disc only when like.. EVERYONE has weakened soul, so very very rarely lol) Though 50sp 20 spirit to pants is nice I recommend the 30 stamina instead =/ it's a minor spellpower loss and who knows.. could save ya life one day?

    And.. Lightweave on the cloak. Alllllllways lightweave imo. Spellpower ftw. But whatever works for you. If you wanna go fulltime disc, might wanna trade the haste for crit =x until you get more geared anyway. =/

    Predicting damage - the right way.

  6. #6

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    if you want to be a holy/disc priest, use the 12sp/10 intellect gems, they are really good for both specs

  7. #7

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Don't be obsessed with meters. Yes, druids and shamans can push more raw healing but holy priest provides healing at steady pace whereas other two have spikes in their healing. On the other hand, I personally believe that a well played disc outweighs a holy priest by far when it comes to usefulness.

    As for gemming, it's been said - 12sp 10 int, which fit perfectly for both specs.

  8. #8

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Syanid is exactly right. Unfortunately many of the inexperienced players base pretty much -everything- on meters. "If you're high on the meters, it wasnt your fault we wiped" even if the reason you really wiped was because somebody was meterchasing rather than doing his job. Listen - AS a holy priest when the other healers (All 3 of classes) catch up to you in gear, they'll probably all pass you (Meterwise). You'll most likely be at the bottom of the barrel, but still, the most versatile one in your group.

    Predicting damage - the right way.

  9. #9

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    If your guild isn't running with a disc priest, go disc instantly, as it brings so much more to the table than a holy priest. Although, running 2 discipline priests is bad. So 1 disc, 1 holy would be the way to go if you're running with 2 priest.

    If you're going Disc; Spellpower/Int is often the way to go. Crit should be fixed through gear, as should haste. The haste cap (idle) is around 14% iirc.
    I'd suggest SP/Int, or plain SP if you feel you got enough mana/mana regen.
    12sp/10spi should never be an option, unless the socket bonus is enough to cover for it (Don't ask me for numbers, I'm not that active anymore).

    About your talents @ Disc (i assume you use 'm for PVP now due to some talents)
    Go:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuhhVRIsffRtbxLc
    or
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuhhVRIsffRtbv0c

    If you decide to stay holy - SP/Int is a solid choice as you gear up (though I think you're fine there), go SP/Spi or Sp/Haste from there. Never gem full haste imo though.

    About the part of falling behind on the meters, you're not a HPS class like Druids are, you're there for throughput. Shamans go for HPS on AOE fights aswell.

    Keep PoM on CD (unless a MT/OT or any other player that is going to receive damage, is still having it), keep Renew up on the MT/OT, and adjust the rest to your playstyle

    Good luck, you'll get there eventually!

  10. #10

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Quote Originally Posted by Minia
    Disc is amazing for any pulsing damage fight, like blood queen / putricide / sin / LK. Shield botting becomes kinda bleh once in awhie but other than that it's a very fun class. Althor's abacus is kinda meh for disc in my opinion, and I'd go for purified lunar dust (Badges) instead. The gear seems alright, but I myself get haste from gear and not gems. I get it from gear BECAUSE I want to be able to switch back and forth holy / disc. I have over 600 (I don't go holy often and use PoH as disc only when like.. EVERYONE has weakened soul, so very very rarely lol) Though 50sp 20 spirit to pants is nice I recommend the 30 stamina instead =/ it's a minor spellpower loss and who knows.. could save ya life one day?

    And.. Lightweave on the cloak. Alllllllways lightweave imo. Spellpower ftw. But whatever works for you. If you wanna go fulltime disc, might wanna trade the haste for crit =x until you get more geared anyway. =/
    Switching the 6 yellow gems I have for SP+Int, could be done, what about the SP+Spirit ones? Should those stay or change some/all of them?

    Also, I do have Lunar Dust, I had swapped in the Sliver for some reason last night, I forget why. I'm nearly able to get my third piece of t10, probably going to go for shoulders to replace the 1pc t9 I'm rocking right now.

    I'm picking up gear replacements as they come, but as you can tell from my achievements, we haven't gotten very far through ICC25 (mostly due to poor overall attendance), and I just don't have time to log in extra to do 10mans as well due to work and other responsibilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Don't be obsessed with meters. Yes, druids and shamans can push more raw healing but holy priest provides healing at steady pace whereas other two have spikes in their healing. On the other hand, I personally believe that a well played disc outweighs a holy priest by far when it comes to usefulness.

    As for gemming, it's been said - 12sp 10 int, which fit perfectly for both specs.
    That's partly what I was getting at. I understand meters aren't everything. I used to be a Warrior tank, definitely never topped any meters, even when competing solely with other tanks DPS, Threat or otherwise. Healing I'm not using the meters as a be-all end all, but they're a useful tool, if everything goes well and the boss dies, they help to see who's not pulling their own weight, who's picking up others' slack, etc. I'm more concerned with being useful to my guild than "topping" the meters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minia
    Syanid is exactly right. Unfortunately many of the inexperienced players base pretty much -everything- on meters. "If you're high on the meters, it wasnt your fault we wiped" even if the reason you really wiped was because somebody was meterchasing rather than doing his job. Listen - AS a holy priest when the other healers (All 3 of classes) catch up to you in gear, they'll probably all pass you (Meterwise). You'll most likely be at the bottom of the barrel, but still, the most versatile one in your group.
    Versatile, but needed? If I was Disc, would I still cover those gaps, plus some, and be more advantageous in other fights as Disc?

    That seems to be the general consensus, since we don't have a regular Disc Priest, switching my offspec to Disc PvE and changing yellow gems to 12SP+10INT, should be adequate for both specs?


  11. #11

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Quote Originally Posted by Floxun
    If your guild isn't running with a disc priest, go disc instantly, as it brings so much more to the table than a holy priest. Although, running 2 discipline priests is bad. So 1 disc, 1 holy would be the way to go if you're running with 2 priest.

    If you're going Disc; Spellpower/Int is often the way to go. Crit should be fixed through gear, as should haste. The haste cap (idle) is around 14% iirc.
    I'd suggest SP/Int, or plain SP if you feel you got enough mana/mana regen.
    12sp/10spi should never be an option, unless the socket bonus is enough to cover for it (Don't ask me for numbers, I'm not that active anymore).

    About your talents @ Disc (i assume you use 'm for PVP now due to some talents)
    Go:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuhhVRIsffRtbxLc
    or
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuhhVRIsffRtbv0c

    If you decide to stay holy - SP/Int is a solid choice as you gear up (though I think you're fine there), go SP/Spi or Sp/Haste from there. Never gem full haste imo though.

    About the part of falling behind on the meters, you're not a HPS class like Druids are, you're there for throughput. Shamans go for HPS on AOE fights aswell.

    Keep PoM on CD (unless a MT/OT or any other player that is going to receive damage, is still having it), keep Renew up on the MT/OT, and adjust the rest to your playstyle

    Good luck, you'll get there eventually!
    Yes, my current Disc spec is PvP oriented, I enjoy to PvP on occasion and since this is currently the only toon I actively play at 80, I gave her a PvP spec. I'm currently working on a Shammy who will be my PvP & PvE-dps toon.

    I do keep PoM and CoH both near-always on CD, with Renew on at the least the tanks and myself always, with more thrown out to others who typically take damage depending on the fight.

    So instead of the SP+SPI, should those switch to SP+Int as well? Even for Holy?

  12. #12

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    SP spirit to royal dreadstone imo =/

    Predicting damage - the right way.

  13. #13

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Quote Originally Posted by Minia
    SP spirit to royal dreadstone imo =/
    MP5? MP5 > Spirit? I was under the impression Spirit wasn't great for Disc definitely not as good as it is for Holy, but still better than pure MP5?

  14. #14

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Quote Originally Posted by klaugh
    MP5? MP5 > Spirit? I was under the impression Spirit wasn't great for Disc definitely not as good as it is for Holy, but still better than pure MP5?
    MP5> Spirit for disc, bigtime.

    Oh and btw, don't keep CoH on CD. CoH is more of an emergency-spell. Even though it has the ability to pump HPS, it's not your job to pump HPS. You're there for steady healing. And when shit hit the fence, CoH is there to save lives, and you dont want it to be on CD then!

    For holy, you're better of with Sp/Spi imo, since you're sitting at a rough 24.5k+ mana unbuffed, which is imo enough, as int falls behind Spirit at higher gearlevels in terms of mana regen.

    Oh and if possible, switch both trinkets.
    Try getting your hands on http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47432 and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50358, if you're going disc
    If you're staying holy, get HC SotF instead of Sliver of Pure Ice (the mp5 from it is not even on par with SotF normal)

    But spirit is near to useless as disc, so MP5 > Spirit
    For the question about the SP/SPI gem. I'd resocket to SP or SP/Int if you consider going disc. Or even SP/mp5 to get the bonus.

  15. #15

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Quote Originally Posted by klaugh
    MP5? MP5 > Spirit? I was under the impression Spirit wasn't great for Disc definitely not as good as it is for Holy, but still better than pure MP5?
    From Elitist Jerks (when balancing throughput/longevity):
    • Intelligence - 0.65
    • Spirit - 0.22
    • Haste Rating - 0.59
    • Crit Ratng - 0.48
    • Spell Power - 1.0
    • Mp5 - 0.67

    If you've got a sufficient amount of Intellect (mana pool) and you're running 25s as you said you were, you should have plenty of regen through Replenishment. If it comes down to needing more, however, Mp5 is definitely more suitable for Disc priests than Spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urti
    No, they (new-gen gamers) are happy. Never happier than when they are crying loudly about the injustices of voluntary forms of entertainment.

  16. #16

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Wow, I was not aware that MP5 came out above Spirit by that much for Disc.

    Thanks.

    I have been looking to try Disc at the least, I'm playing around with WoWHead profiler with my current gear, swapping gemming and talents to see how it'll work out, will check out swapping SP+Spirit gems, using SP+MP5 for keeping my meta active and then maybe the others to SP+Int and checking stats of both holy and disc spec.

    Thanks guys, don't stop though, I know I still have a lot to learn.

    As for playstyle of Disc being more raid-oriented than tank-healing. My primary role would be PW:S on as many as possible, keeping Renews on tanks and PoM on CD, correct? PoH potentially, but rarely. Flashes to fill in any gaps when Weakened Soul is up on the people that need the healing?

  17. #17

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    That's the basic rotation so to speak. You're intelligent, you'll figure it out =p

    Predicting damage - the right way.

  18. #18

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    That's about right, although I'm not a fan of using Renew as Disc, I hardly use it. Cause Flash Heal > Renew, due to chance on DI, aswell as Disc boosting FH by a pretty nice margin (esp. on Weakend Soul targets).

    But don't go too much for INT, you'll be fine around 35k mana raidbuffed (and it's not that hard at the current gearlevels). Then go for straight SP imo (together with some haste and crit, perhaps).

    Oh, and save Penance for when shit hit the fence or when you know heavy dmg is incoming on one target (pre-shield > penance (so it benefits from BT even) > (Optional: Inner Focus) Gheal is a very nice combo to deal with heavy dmg). But you got it pretty much on the spot yea You'll manage!

  19. #19

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Personally, I didn't talent into shorter casttime for gheal since it seems pretty useless to me, and I only use inner focus with divine hymn. And yeah, my manapool isn't huge, i'm 28k unbuffed, I mostly go for pure spellpower unless the socket bonus is worth taking, and even then.. =/

    Predicting damage - the right way.

  20. #20

    Re: LF Advice from more experienced Priests

    Quote Originally Posted by Floxun
    Even though it has the ability to pump HPS, it's not your job to pump HPS. You're there for steady healing.
    Wrong. If you were saying the words "steady healing" to a druid, you'd be correct, or even a Disc if you were saying "steady pseudo healing". Priests are glorified whackamole with many tools to get the job done. They are the most bursty of the raid healers full stop.


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