Complicated DPS problem with an Elemental Shaman

[Deleted]

My current stats are:
2978 SP
297 hit
28,96% crit
881 Haste
And i am doing HARDLY 5.6k DPS on the Heroic Training Dummy.

Now the wierd part is when i switch my current gear with a lot worse one, with no set bonus, just random gear from heroics, toc10.
My stats with my not so good gear are
2820 SP
272 Hit
32% crit
760 Haste
I do 5.9-6.3k DPS on The Heroic dummy with these stats.

My rotations are FS>LB>LTB till LB CD is off>LTB and Keep Flame Shock up All the time

Where did i go wrong, i just dont get it.

[Vashta]

How long did you test for?

[thunderdragon]

i have

2772 spellpower
328 hit (12.5%)
37.65% crit
708 haste

i have both the t10 2 peice and 4 peice and i got 5.6k all tho my FS droped off a few time
i used FS>LB>LTB rotation

and i tested untill i could almost use ele mastery a 4th time

ur hits lower than mine and my haste is lower than urs but.... i have

the totem from EoF
black magic on wep

both of which increases haste so when they've both proced i have near 1200 haste


going to try again right now see what i get

[hvidgaard]

Where you alone on the dummy all times?
How long did you test?
Did you use any kind of AoE, that includes Thunderstorm, and was you close to the dummies?

There's no way you should be doing more dps in your lesser gear. The only thing I can think off, is that your haste in the best gear puts you in a awkward posistion for LB casttime, where you often end up waiting for LvB or start casting LB just as LvB comes off cooldown.

[thunderdragon]

ok this time i got 5.2k but a few things went rong fs fell off a few times and my ttems disapeared also but i think i got prock lucky somtimes also (having everything prock at once)

[Shalae]

Now the thing you need to do that is vital when dps testing is to set up strict test rules. So for example in each set of gear you should run multiple tests so say 10 attempts in each set for 5-6 minutes each seems enough and work out average from those tests. If you just tried it once or twice it won't really be as accurate.

[Deleted]

I tried only twice with each set and the DPS difference was frightening.
I havent used any AoE's or w/e, i DPS with my basic rotation untill i get out of mana.
Guess i will try a few more times with my greater gear and see the outcome.

[Chitzu]

As said above, my advice is also the same:

Run 10~ tests with one set of gear until you're pretty much OOM

Plus them together and divide with the amount of tests you ran with that set, there you got the most accurate numbers since crit/proccs does make them very different from attempt - attempt, Elemental shamans is very bursty and our numbers goes up and down as mad. Sometimes i do close 12.5k~ on Saurfang, others i do 10k, altho i'm switching to adds, so all depends on them and how fast the others kill theirs.

Also, are you trying on the Boss dummy, or the one next to it? If you're on the Boss dummy you're not hit capped due to no Misery or Faire fire.

With these stats that you got, you're not too far behind from where you should be, it's the training dummy so keep in mind that you're not having any of the buffs which you have in a raid with exception from ToW and Elemental Oath (moonkin aura)

I'm doing around 8.5k-9k on the training dummy, but my stats is also a lot higher.

The difference between running with 2-piece and 4-piece isn't that huge unless you have 4 pieces sanctified compared to 2-piece Sanctified and 2 Offset pieces (Gloves/Shoulders) which i ran with for a good while due to more haste and SP, it's not until 3.3.3 hits that it makes the huge difference between having 4-set and 2-set.


If you're looking at your Lower set of gear tho, you can clearly see that you got a lot more crit on it, which makes the DPS difference even more between test-test when you're comparing your 2 sets, do as i suggested you to and you'll see that your better set of gear is putting up higher numbers (keep in mind, do not just look at the DPS, compared the DMG done.)

[boneschaman]

I tried only twice with each set and the DPS difference was frightening.

rng is rng... problem solved

[Iridiel]

... Sometimes i do close 12.5k~ on Saurfang, others i do 10k, altho i'm switching to adds, so all depends on them and how fast the others kill theirs.


I'm doing around 8.5k-9k on the training dummy, but my stats is also a lot higher.

Can we have any parses of you doing 12.5 on saurfang and 9k on dummy pretty please ?

[Shalae]

I do find doing 12.5k dps as an Elemental shaman might be an over estimation considering most pures are only hitting around 12.5-14k themselves. ^_^.

[whowherewhat?]

Finnober (and others) did 12k+ on saurfang before the 5% buff, i'm pretty sure this isn't out of the question. With lackluster stats myself (3076 SP, 32% crit, 803 haste) I was able to push 10k on beasts of northrend (with a demo lock). The 5% buff is huuge in icc and with a demo lock we can really ramp up our dps

[storeposer]

i did 10,9k on fester in a 10 man and i dont have heroic gear so 12k dosent sound to high

[Chitzu]

So pretty to see the kids get out of their closet trying to flame cause they can't reach the numbers themselve?

My stats is:

3257SP (without Flametounge, totems, or buffs/flasks)
35% crit
1017 Haste (without Totem stacked)

so yeh... and it's Saurfang, 4-piece Sanctified / Heroic ICC25/10, Heroic ToGC25 gear. yeh i do pull these numbers.

However, this is not what the topic is about, stay on topic and try to flame somewhere else.

@Pitar99a, did you ran anymore tests and did like i said to be able to compare them, and what was the outcome?

[Alector]

Finnober (and others) did 12k+ on saurfang before the 5% buff, i'm pretty sure this isn't out of the question. With lackluster stats myself (3076 SP, 32% crit, 803 haste) I was able to push 10k on beasts of northrend (with a demo lock). The 5% buff is huuge in icc and with a demo lock we can really ramp up our dps

JEAH somebody would so 12k on saurfang if he gets 8!!!! times tricks of Trade ..... watch the logs right i know this finnober log^^ and with 80 seconds tricks of trade(15%dmg buff).....

[Deleted]

The problem is solved, i dpsed 10times with each set and i realised the true difference. Thanks for the help i appreciate it.

[Iridiel]

So pretty to see the kids get out of their closet trying to flame cause they can't reach the numbers themselve?

My stats is:

3257SP (without Flametounge, totems, or buffs/flasks)
35% crit
1017 Haste (without Totem stacked)

so yeh... and it's Saurfang, 4-piece Sanctified / Heroic ICC25/10, Heroic ToGC25 gear. yeh i do pull these numbers.

However, this is not what the topic is about, stay on topic and try to flame somewhere else.

@Pitar99a, did you ran anymore tests and did like i said to be able to compare them, and what was the outcome?

Not playing a shaman, our shamans can't pull 12k on saurfang so pretty please give us those logs.

[Shamanutra]

JEAH somebody would so 12k on saurfang if he gets 8!!!! times tricks of Trade ..... watch the logs right i know this finnober log^^ and with 80 seconds tricks of trade(15%dmg buff).....

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...02&e=4096#Sham

I did over 12.2k dps on Saurfang and I didn't get any ToTs.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...mental_Shaman/

Im the shammy in 28th place my guild hasn't killed LK 25 so no 25 heroic pieces and i pulled 11.8...im pretty sure ele shammys in guilds that have access to 25 heroic loot do 12-13k np. Not to mention these are just the ones who use WOL's im sure there's many more out there at theses numbers.

We killed Lich King, but I do not have any heroic items nor did at the time of this parse.

[Rambler]

To the OP:

The difference is your crit level. Elemental shamans are subject to a rather specific gear stat order to maximize dps. Since Ulduar first release, I extensively tested dps rotations on target dummies and I have found 33.5-35% crit rate on your unbuffed tooltip is optimal for increasing up time for your Elemental Oath.

Here is why. Stacking haste is generally considered great because you get more hits per rotation, obviously nice. However, at higher levels of gear (and higher levels of dps competition) every single and crit you land without a Elemental Oath active is a dps loss (because of the additional 10% damage buff it applies). The higher your haste, the more you will hit in between crits, and the greater likelihood of you landing hits and crits between Oath uptimes.

Very quick and easy way to observe this is by going to the target dummy and doing the following rotation just once, and seeing how oath proc's affect your numbers. (this will also help those of you that start a fight with Flame Shock to see the error of your ways)

Lightning Bolt , Flame Shock, Lava Burst Lightning bolt X7

Not an ideal rotation for raiding, per say but that isn't the goal. Its for you to moniter the uptime on your Oath. This is also similar to your haste effect rotation on say, Bloodlust/lava floes, PI, so the "rotation" isn't unrealistic.

Ideally, your first LB will crit and proc an LO. This will start your dps high, because the LB and the FS will hit at the same time (minimizing ramp-up time). Guaranteed you want EITHER your LB or FS to crit, for the 10% dmg bonus to your LvB.

[Shalae]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...02&e=4096#Sham

I did over 12.2k dps on Saurfang and I didn't get any ToTs.

Not sure how you guys handle the fight but only 90k damage done on the beasts which if I'm checking the log from is only done via chain lightning. Now I don't really want to criticise but improving personal dps and putting more work on other players seems a bit odd to me :s.