How to shorten the LFG queue for DPS

[Deleted]

i do alot of heroics on my alt tank just because i like tanking on him, and like seeing how terrible the average player is.
i can gaurantee that 9/10 heroics i do im always top on overall damage by at least 800k to 1million.

why is that that dps and healers can moan at undergeared tanks , yet nothing is said to the moron dps that cant pull 2k with full t9.
thats what pisses me off.

[Falafhel]

For me, the most important conclusion you can extract from this thread is that a lot of dpsers can't even understand a fairly simple post (I guess also that many couldn't even focus enough time to read it completely). That explains a lot about their behavior in game... :-\

[Deleted]

Because having instant queue times really is a bitch.

[jpwkeeper]

I do what I please!

I'll complain about the bad tank, I'll tell him how bad he is and tell him how he can improve, if he is being a jerk he deserves to be treated like one, I will also MD pull to the tank if I want him to pull more than say a certain mob because I know he and the healer can tank/heal through it (I do this on my shaman as well).

Put simply... I make my runs interesting and fun.

I hope so, since it's because of people like you that DPS get so few of them.

One clarification: If the tank is being a jerk, abuse him as he does deserve it. If the tank is bad, but is trying to learn his position, that does not constitute him being a jerk.

MD pull to the tank? Your MD should have already been on cooldown...

[venom1234]

Sorry the only thing we need tanks for are raid bosses. You aren't needed for bgs, arenas, heroics, trash, anything. No one cares about you.

We do heroics without a tank and a lot of the time our healer goes dps as well. Get off your high horse no one gives a fuck about you. I have 40k hp raid buffed as a dps. That + shield block already makes me better than 90% of the tanks. My tank gear is also better than 90% of the tanks.

(This is not the the OP, it is to all the 12 year old kids saying stuff like they carry dps etc)

[Critshappen10]

tanking isn't very hard, easy enough to do on my alt dk even with a shitty comp + bad internet

[Kethlan]

(I have tanked, healed, and DPSd random heroics, and everyone is guilty, its just in the tanks where it hurts everybody)

okay, lets do some break downs here. How many TYPES of tanks are there...

Raid geared tanks (only running for the frosts, and only running ONE random a day)
Heroic geared tanks (finishing out their sets, probably running several heroics a day)
New 80 tanks (need all the emblems they can get)

Now each of these has subsets...

Raid geared tanks tend to not have a BAD, level, mostly because its kinda hard to get raid grade tank gear without you know tanking raids. But that doesnt mean they dont have issues, and they can have a really high opinion of themselves. So we are going to call their subsets, Good, and Elitist.

Heroic geared tanks, tend to fall into subsets of Good, and BAD. With gear as easy to get as it is, you can get maxed triumph gear without really learning anything, and thus have great gear and no skill.

New 80 tanks fall into 3 subsets, Good, Bad, and Newbie. Bad being the same as the above, they havent learned their class, and dont care. Newbies, dont know their class, but WANT TO.

So lets break things down further.

Good Raid Geared Tank:

He will most likely glance at the gear of his group members, to get an idea of how fast he should go, and whether or not he should skip bosses. But god forbid the group has ONE other greatly geared person and three lesser geared people. Because most often that ONE person will demand the group go as fast as humanly possible and skip everything skippable. At this point you need to learn something, the timer is 15 minutes, unless you are a tank, you will not get an instant group for your NEXT one. so who really cares if the instance takes a little longer. Its not going to hurt your emblem income, unless you are running instances all day, then yeah you might end up running ONE fewer if you dont rush.

But back to the tank, he is a raider, basically you can call him a professional at what he does. He pulls mobs, groups mobs, and keeps mobs from killing you. So the instance begins, and a DPS starts pulling additional mobs. You have just tried and failed to do HIS job. You focus a target that isnt his target. You have just made his job harder. You AFK without asking, and he dies because he didnt get a heal. You have just cost him a LARGE repair bill. And its not the fact that you are making his job harder, or costing him time or money, he will get angry because you are not running the instance as it should be run. You are goofing off with his work. This will make him very unlikely to fill any of his downtime with extra heroics, at least as a tank. They may even wait for a full guild or friend group to be online before running for their frosts. Thus reducing the number of tanks in the queue.

Elitist Raid Geared Tanks:

Should be burned at the stake. These guys dont care if anyone else in the group needs to go slower, they dont care if someone needs triumphs. He takes it personal that you havent cleared the whole instance up to the final boss before he zones in. He attacks your gear, he attacks your numbers, he whines about your healing output. And he pulls more mobs before you can respond, then whines about you talking instead of fighting.

These people, are the tanks that think they are gods, these are the tanks no one except raid geared DPS and Healers, want to get. If you get one, Ignore him, and go back to your queue...your life will be better for it, even if its a little boring for a little while. We do not want these tanks getting groups, a longer queue is worth it to weed out this crap.

Good Heroic Geared Tanks:

They do not even consider skipping bosses, since they want the emblems too. But they should check to see how good the gear is on the rest of the group to set the speed. These are also the tanks building DPS sets, but they are the ones who make sure the DPS dont need the items before they roll on them.

Same as with the raid geared, they get annoyed if you try to do their job for them. They also get annoyed when you demand to skip bosses, or jump around screaming "gogogogogogogogogogogogogo!" And when you push them to the point of annoyance, what do they do? THEY STOP QUEUEING AS TANKS. Thus increasing the number of healers and dps in the queue and reducing the number of tanks.

BAD Heroic Geared Tanks:

Say hello to the REAL problem out there. You have all seen them. They AFK every couple of pulls. They dont use Righteous Fury (not they forgot it, they refuse to use it). They spam one ability over and over again. They scream at DPS who pull SINGLE TARGET threat off them. They whine at healers for not keeping them at max life (even if they didnt die). They call for kicks of anyone who disagrees with them. They kick DPS who might roll on the DPS drop they want. They leave the group when their gear doesnt drop, or the boss that drops it is already dead.

These are tanks you do not want in the queue as tanks, NO ONE wants to get one of these tanks. Ignore them. You will never see them again.

----------------
ASIDE:

you will notice i have not once said hand out compliments. or to dish out anger at them. This is why. An Elitist Tank will not care if you are angry with him, because you are a noob and below his notice. A BAD tank will say you are bad, or a noob, and that he is right. and they both already think they are gods, so compliments mean nothing to them. Good tanks dont need compliments, they will accept them if you offer them, but they niether need nor expect them. And throwing anger at them just annoys them...thus making them queue less, making less tanks in the queue, making you more likely to see a bad, or elitist.

So simply, trash talk or compliments are not necessary with the aforementioned tanks, below is a different story though.

----------------------

Good New 80 tank:

Goes as fast as he can, which isnt very fast. Does everything in his power to keep the DPS alive, even though they WILL pull threat off him, he just doesnt have the gear to keep up. He is likely an alt, and thus KNOWS what spells and abilities to use, but likely doesnt have the timing down yet. If you go at his pace, and let him kill all the bosses, perhaps pointing out (without making him feel stupid) where he makes a minor mechanical mistake, and telling him how to correct it. Do this and you will increase the number of Good Geared tanks in the queue. making your queues shorter.

Compliments are really only needed at the end of the run, and generally only if you had to correct them on something. Trash talk will make them more likely to queue as DPS next time.

BAD New 80 Tank:

Typically an alt of an Elitist or Bad Geared DPS/Healer/Tank. Nothing can be done for them. Trash talk rolls off of them. The instance is probably unclearable with them. Kick em.

Newbie 80 Tank:

This is the most important of all. This is where..."pandering" is necessary. This is wear you need to teach, and go slow, and pray they learn something. At this stage whether they will be Good or Bad is still up in the air. If you handle it right, hopefully more will be Good. If you handle it badly, they will just become DPS. Trash Talk, and they will likely become DPS.

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Note i keep saying Become a DPS like its a bad thing. Its not, there are just too many of them. We want MORE tanks and less DPS/healers in the queue. Maybe some battlegroups healers still get instant queues, but on mine healers wait as long as DPS do.

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so i have lectured everyone on how to treat tanks...now to lecture tanks on how to treat them.

DO NOTS
DO NOT leave group members behind
DO NOT pull when the healer is OOM
DO NOT kick people at the drop of a hat
DO NOT bash the DPSer's numbers
DO NOT whine about a healers healing (unless they are forgetting something important...like diseases on the Black Knight)
DO NOT roll on DPS gear if a DPS needs it. If you want DPS gear, DPS for it. We expect them to not roll on our tank gear, don't roll on theirs.
DO NOT get angry.
DO NOT skip bosses if a majority of the group needs em.
DO NOT skip bosses without checking to see if a majority needs em.
DO NOT pull a boss without a ready check. Even a mighty tank is going to have a bad day if the healer stopped to drink.
DO NOT go faster than the group can handle.
DO NOT vote to kick if you do not know WHY the vote was called.

Things you should do:

Defend people who are being bashed for no reason.
Kick people who refuse to behave.
Stay alert. If it is obvious a group member has not done the instance before teach as you go, especially boss tactics.
If you wipe because of a failure to understand boss mechanics, explain it calmly before you go again.

---------------------------

All roles are guilty of bad behavior in randoms. All roles get bashed. But, when people stop queuing because of the way they are treated, the group with the lowest population is where it is felt. That group being tanks.

And to the whole, "they should just grow a pair and do it!" crew. People do not like being treated like shit. They do not like being made to feel like they have failed at something. If you know you are going to be treated badly, why in the hell would you willingly put yourself in that position. I do not know a single tank that doesn't have healer and DPS friends. Most tanks don't NEED to PuG. They do just to get emblems faster. If you want them to PuG, you should make them want to PuG, not try as hard as possible to make them NOT want to PuG.

And there is a very large difference between treating a tank like a god. And treating them like shit. You could just shut up, kill bosses, and go home.

[Qelkhandras]

@OP:

How hard exactly is it for ICC25 geared tanks to tank a heroic? Here are the steps you have to follow to complete an instance in 15 minutes:

1) Click the queue button as tank. You are instantly rewarded a spot within 5 seconds.

2) Run your face into groups of mobs, completely ignoring any of what other dps does, until you kill the last boss, and loot your frost emblems.

Unless dps is pulling 4 groups at a time (which is impossible) you can handle anything in a heroic.

Im a ICC25 geared tank,51k selfbuffed, I get insta-queuing every single time I go, and if I proposse a kick for someone being an ass in the run, since im the tank always get a yes response, EVEN WITH ALL THAT, there is no reason for me to be FORCED to run a HC like my life is pending on the time i take to do chain-pulling. So it isnt a DPS work to pull me ANYTHING AT ALL,If I dont pull, you sit and WAIT, till i do go for the next, the fact that i CAN handle 3 pulls simultaneously, doesnt mena i HAVE to. ven doing one pull at the time, if the LFG gave you DPSs acording to your gear, it wont take more than 15min, (except fot the damm nexus, that sucks).

[Bourdjire]

Patience is a virtue. Constructive Critisizm > name calling/badgering. Rather than avoiding everyone that is not above par for content we can all help to build a better community by helping.

[DrgnDancer]

As a primarily DPS player (I do tank on my Druid, but that's one spec of one character), I have to ask my fellow DPSers: "WTF is wrong with you people!" He's not asking to be pampered. He's not asking to be treated like God. He's essentially asking for three things:

1) Don't pull.
2) Use threat the reduction abilities you have.
3) Don't be a complete Douche.

How is this fucking hard to live with? You're *supposed* to do one and two, and three is just common courtesy. I talk to the tanks in my guild. The ones that are in ICC gear and can basically pull the entirety of most early Heroics at once, this is why they DON'T FUCKING TANK FOR YOU ANYMORE. They get guild groups now. They can always get at least three or four people from guild because we know it's an instant queue. So at best there is one or two slots open for you when you missed your guild tank or want to chain heroics on your alt. This is why I have to wait 15 minutes to do a random Hc when none of the guild tanks are on, or they're busy. Just act like a reasonable respectful human being and half the damned problem will disappear.

[Captain Noctus]

Actually, i'm fairly often 2nd-3rd on dps meters, and it doesn't take me that much longer to down mobs, you're redundant, we're carrying you.

sooo your carrying the dps? even when 2 well geared hunters can clear almost every heroic? ('cept the ICC ones)
oh ya.. thats totally carrying right there, definately :
I consider my 60% of the dmg done, as carrying, especially when my pet and i, have more dmg taken than the tank

[venom1234]

How to shorten the instance times for Tanks

Tanks, are you tired of endless instance times? Would you like to be able to actually complete a heroic in less than 40 minutes a pop?

I have the solution, and it's not something Blizzard needs to fix. It's something YOU can do.

First, read this:

http://icomplainlikeababy/about-DPS-thatcarryme

Then the next time you queue up for a random, do the following:

1. Do NOT comment on the DPS's gear or drop group before you start due to the DPS's gear.
2. If you have a hunter or rogue, praise them because they will make your run quicker (maybe even give them a couple gold).
3. If you wipe, suck it up. It was your fault anyway.
4. If the DPS sucks, but they're working it and trying to learn, keep your yap shut.
5. At the end of the run, make sure that you throw the DPS a compliment, especially if they're obviously a bit green.
6. If one of your fellow tanks or healers makes a rude comment, YOU tell them to STFU, don't wait for the someone else to do it.
7. Unless it's excessively slow, never try to rush the DPS, and if it is excessively slow, do it in a positive fashion (Say to yourself -"Mate, you've got a strong healer and strong DPS behind you. Roll on." not an exact quote I heard from a tank once, but it was close and the his pulling speed went up around 20% after that).

If you do these things, you are sewing a crop of DPS that are going to grow into quiet, nice monsters that recognize the joys of instant queues in about 2-3 weeks time. In addition, you are also keeping the raid-geared tanks from acting so elitest and stop queueing as a tank in LFG (and yes, I know 3 ICC-25 raiding tanks that refuse to queue as a tank and would rather wait the 15-20 minutes as DPS to not have to deal with the jerks, because they are bad).

Every single DPS you add to this mix is going to shorten your overall run times in the long run. Just keep your eye on the prize. I'm convinced that if enough tanks do this, tank run time could drop to as low as 8 minutes (down from 20+ on some battlegroups).

If you are a healer: Suck it up brother. Healing the tank will be work. Most are bad. Thay have a nasty tendency to get lazy during heroics; fight this tendency until you know if your tank is going to need extra attention. We should consider it a PAIN IN THE ASS to help a noob tank through the process of learning. It will not help you now since your queue times are fairly low (no more than 5 minutes at most), but when your DPS alt needs to run heroics, you'll rip your hair out then.

You elitist jerkoffs have no idea that you're cutting your own nose off to spite your face. Instead just pop the zit; it'll hurt a bit, but in the end it'll be better all around.

Ill try to work on it. I fixed some things to help you out,

[Squishie]

As a primarily DPS player (I do tank on my Druid, but that's one spec of one character), I have to ask my fellow DPSers: "WTF is wrong with you people!" He's not asking to be pampered. He's not asking to be treated like God he's essentially asking for three things:

1) Don't pull.
2) Use threat the reduction abilities you have.
3) Don't be a complete Douche.

How is this fucking hard to live with? You're *supposed* to do one and two, and three is just common courtesy. I talk to the tanks in my guild. The ones that are in ICC gear and can basically pull the entirety of most early Heroics at once, this is why they DON'T FUCKING TANK FOR YOU ANYMORE. They get guild groups now. They can always get at three or four people from guild because we know it's an instant queue. So at best there is one or two slots open for you when you missed your guild tank or want to chain heroics on your alt. This is why I have to wait 15 minutes to do a random Hc when none of the guild tanks are on, or they're busy. Just act like a reasonable respectful human being and half the damned problem will disappear.

Quoted for truth.

[venom1234]

As a primarily DPS player (I do tank on my Druid, but that's one spec of one character), I have to ask my fellow DPSers: "WTF is wrong with you people!" He's not asking to be pampered. He's not asking to be treated like God he's essentially asking for three things:

1) Don't pull.
2) Use threat the reduction abilities you have.
3) Don't be a complete Douche.

How is this fucking hard to live with? You're *supposed* to do one and two, and three is just common courtesy. I talk to the tanks in my guild. The ones that are in ICC gear and can basically pull the entirety of most early Heroics at once, this is why they DON'T FUCKING TANK FOR YOU ANYMORE. They get guild groups now. They can always get at three or four people from guild because we know it's an instant queue. So at best there is one or two slots open for you when you missed your guild tank or want to chain heroics on your alt. This is why I have to wait 15 minutes to do a random Hc when none of the guild tanks are on, or they're busy. Just act like a reasonable respectful human being and half the damned problem will disappear.

Obviously 4 people is an instant queue.....

[DrgnDancer]

Obviously 4 people is an instant queue.....

Not unless one of them is a tank. I've sat for five or ten minutes with three DPS and a healer.

[Malania]

I don't make comments about anyones gear. Ok, i'll inspect them and if I think he's gonna have threat issues I'll MD trash packs and bosses but on a daily hc I prefer to keep the chat to a minimal with people I'll never see again and get my Frost badges ASAP. Meaning skipping extra bosses not needed.

[Dvaldin]

I've seen dps'ers who are asses. I've seen healers who are asses. I've seen tanks who are asses.

Fortunately, most of the players I've pugged with a pretty much cool. Not all, but most. I can't wait until we'll be able to vote to kick someone without having to wait for the timer to expire. There are soooo many jerks me and others would have kicked if we didn't have to wait for the timer to expire.

Just because you play a class doesn't mean you have class.

[Kuismar]

Having two tank toons myself I agree with this thread. My only add-on would be the exact opposite. The over geared tank and the under geared healer. As a tank don't just run into three packs of mobs before you see how skilled you healer is or what their gear/throughput is. Second as an over geared tank you do have to look at your surroundings, if you don't have group/raid frames up to see when people are low on mana or DEAD, then something is wrong. And if you don't let people drink or res that is just as bad.

[Epiclurker]

We could always go back to the BC days of looking for tanks for several hours for heroics. The tanks were there but we didn't feel like dealing with pugs anymore.

[Gardod]

SO YOU'RE SAYING TANKS ARE LIKE WOMEN, THEY NEED TO BE PAMPERED AND SWEET TALKED BEFORE THEY'LL GO DOWN ON YOU?


In that case:
God help us all.

What happened to the testicles some people may or may not have had?

You're forgeting one thing. Just happens to be the main thing in this thread
We arent talking about raiding tanks. If only raiding tanks (the ones who had it) did HC's ratio would be 1 tank for 16 dps. Counting in the fact that most ppl have DPS alts and not tanking ones, you prob get a number 1-25.
So if you dont want such a bad ratio, you also need bad tanks and alt tanks. If you spit all over a rookie, you're just gonna discourage him and he will never tank again. He'll reroll dps and make waiting longer.