Should i socket Hit/Expertise Gems?

[keLston]

What's that from? I don't recognize it.

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t92564-w...ec_icc_normal/

Elitist Jerks World of Logs ranking breakdowns.

[Deleted]

A feral would have to deal ~14% more damage than the Arms warrior would to generate an equivalent amount of threat. In any event, there's actually two sides to Vigilance;

1) Passive semi-Salv on one target.
2) Passive threat boost on the tank.

Which target gets the Vigilance can vary quite a bit depending on your needs. For absolute highest threat generation over time on a single target your best target is usually a Hunter; it's not effective for ~4s out of every 30, but they have no passive threat reduction and are one of the highest DPS classes which easily outweighs that even if they're hitting MD on Cooldown.

On the other hand, for add wave fights you probably want a Fury Warrior or Retadin; someone who opens with a big AE nuke and then tends to get exploded by the adds, both for burst threat for you and so he doesn't get his ass handed to him every single time.

I agree! Was awhile since I said that and meant it!

[Shoryu]

A competent feral druid should outDPS an equally competent arms warrior on a singeltarget encounter, atleast that's according to WoL and other sources I could find, don't talk out of your ass based on personal experience. For all we know your feral druid is crap while your arms warrior is above the curve.

For a larger sample size; use a site such as WoL (www.worldoflogs.com), and don't take that as me marketing it.

dps ≠ tps. dont talk out of your ass with personal experience.

[itedo]

well i guess if you want to see the cooldown of your spell i guess you would care.

there are enuff possibilities to overview ur cds

[RPZip]

Your vigilance target:

Good arcane mage/moonkin druid/warlock -> Good ret paladin/fury warrior > Good hunter/rogue (these people should MD/tricks you already)

The reason for the mage is obviously that they are higher than the hunter in terms of ST DPS (as you'll see below). Their threat dumps are long cooldown (invis/mirror) and the standard arcane raiding spec does not max out arcane subtlety (lower threat since the current min/maxing community agrees that single target threat because of MD/tricks is never an issue).

For single-target threat that's really not true; even if you don't max out Arcane Subtlety a single point into it will drop you way, way below the Hunters for threat, and Invis is on a fairly short cooldown. Most Mages can't dump enough points out of hit with ICC gear to make Arcane Focus a good buy, and it's not worth spending more than 3 points into Arcane Stability due to Concentration Aura/Imp. Concentration Aura.

The only reason to use it on a Mage over a Hunter is if you're worried about their personal damage exceeding your threat (mini-salv effect), not if you're worried about maximizing your overall TPS. Moonkins are also fairly horrible targets as their damage can drop enormously if they have to move during an Eclipse proc and their standard spec includes 30% reduced threat. Even if the Hunters are hitting MD on CD it's a lower threat reduction than nearly anyone else is using.

[Deleted]

dps ≠ tps. dont talk out of your ass with personal experience.

Your own words are as follows, and also the ones my reply was quoting:

"not quite. arms warriors easily beat out a feral dps and we dont have cower."

You yourself said DPS, jackass.

[EDIT] Actually realised that I missunderstood you, and it was my bad, but feral druids is one of the classes with threat issues aswell, especially at the start, much similiar to warriors in that aspect. Cower does, literally, nothing, it's so crap it makes feint look good (feint is crap too but it has a badass sideeffect what with the AOE damage reduction).

[Atty]

1 expertise/sta gem to activate the meta and then stack sta like a whore.

Also get the 245 emblem head, and that socket is actually where you'd want to socket hit/sta just cause the socket bonus is so awesome.

[Momome]

So, it's ok to raid with expertise at 14, 3.50% and hit at 175, 5.34%?

Check out Kungen's armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...e&cn=Wowkungen

That's 3.78% hit and 1.5% expertise, which is actually pretty high. During a lot of ToC he had practically none. Take a second and think about what you really mean by your question. What do you mean by 'OK to raid'? In the end, all hit and exp do is give you more threat. Do you lose threat a lot? Then yeah you should probably consider putting some hybrid gems in your gear. Do you rarely lose threat? Then why would you need to gem for it?

[bouddieehh]

I have to say this; You sir suck.

Those macros, while saving you a ton of trouble in certain situations, makes you a sluggish, poorly adaptable tank that will suck in situations that aren't 100% limitless in the rage department. I do not recommend macroing heroic strike to anything, it costs you 15-20 rage to use (the intial ragecost and the hit that never generated rage), and does in no way compareable threat to that of Shieldslam or devastate.

why would he suck? i use them too as my pinkfinger will hurt from spamming HS all the time

TO OP: why don't u make 2 identical bars m8, 1 with the macro's and 1 without them when u go on trash press SHIFT+1 (or down) and when ur on the boss press SHIFT+2 (or up) u can switch between ur mainaction bars =). Ofcourse u can use this midfight when ur lacking rage (which u probably won't when fighting a boss)

that's just my 2 cents m8

[KTank]

I hover my hit and expertise around the caps for level 82 mobs and I seem to do just fine. That's 6% hit and 22 expertise.

[Cortano]

Cower is completely useless for Feral Druids last time I played one.

Cower is -1200 threat for 20 energy. (Useless; for all practical purposes ferals -don't- have an aggro dump. If you talk about ferals having an aggro dump people will disregard your opinions; they will think you don't understand the game.)

The reason to put vigilance on a feral druid is that they are extremely bursty with berserk and swipe: feral AE damage is very front loaded (Retardins, Fury Warriors, some DKs fit in this category as well). (This is true to a lesser extent on feral single target damage.)

Arms warriors tend to generate very high threat as well, but it is a lot less "bursty", more evenly spread over an entire fight. Arms AE damage is on the low end, so most of their aggro is concentrated on the main target; which is who you have the best aggro on anyway.

[Deleted]

It seems like I write this a lot, but really, remember it's possible to move your Vigilance around.

I usually put in on a Mage during the pull, then move it to however-has-the-highest-tps, then later move it to someone else.

Also, make sure to help your high-threat friends with Intervene. There's not reason not to.

[Shoryu]

Your own words are as follows, and also the ones my reply was quoting:

"not quite. arms warriors easily beat out a feral dps and we dont have cower."

You yourself said DPS, jackass.

[EDIT] Actually realised that I missunderstood you, and it was my bad, but feral druids is one of the classes with threat issues aswell, especially at the start, much similiar to warriors in that aspect. Cower does, literally, nothing, it's so crap it makes feint look good (feint is crap too but it has a badass sideeffect what with the AOE damage reduction).

seriously learn to read if youre going to insult someone.

[Deleted]

seriously learn to read if youre going to insult someone.

I did re-read it, and I acknowledged that it was my bad.

However, what you failed to do was mention TPS specificly, I read it out of context, your own post only suggestest threat due to the mention of Cower, which above is explained as an entirely useless tool that shouldn't ever be used in a serious threat argument.

My bad, but you're far from fucking flawless.