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  1. #1

    PoH Glyph (Disc)

    I could explain the background argument for for/against, but I'm simply going to ask, vs the Glyph of Flash Heal, is it worth it? Personally, on a fight like Sindragosa p3 in particular, I can't for the life of me see why it isn't better, any extra throughput is worth it imo. But general consensus seems to be that it sucks? Yeah I appreciate it only ticks for 500 but that is on five people!

    Edit: if the answer is that I shouldn't be using PoH in those situations then I clearly need educating on that .

  2. #2

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    3rd glyph is just worthless in general, youll hardly use PoH, and hardly run out of mana for flash heal.

  3. #3

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Siorfin
    I could explain the background argument for for/against, but I'm simply going to ask, vs the Glyph of Flash Heal, is it worth it? Personally, on a fight like Sindragosa p3 in particular, I can't for the life of me see why it isn't better, any extra throughput is worth it imo. But general consensus seems to be that it sucks? Yeah I appreciate it only ticks for 500 but that is on five people!

    Edit: if the answer is that I shouldn't be using PoH in those situations then I clearly need educating on that .
    The problem is you only named one part of ICC where the glyph is useful. There are probably a few others but I don't think it's enough to glyph for it.

    You'll find the extra mana from glyph of Flash Heal to be nice if you ever do hard modes, at least until you're fully geared from them, maybe a little before that.

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  4. #4

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Revitalize
    3rd glyph is just worthless in general, youll hardly use PoH, and hardly run out of mana for flash heal.
    This has been my experience. Both are situationally useful and situationally useless. PoH will generally only add to the meters though, the rest of the healing should be picked up by other healers

  5. #5

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    My self im using holy nova as 3rd Glyph and really helping alot as example for lk hardmode 10 man in transition phase .. but yea if you are hardmode geared flash heal is useless kinda didnt see my mana lower then 40%

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  6. #6
    Dreadlord
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    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Another possibility is to carrying a few of each glyph with you and plug in the PoH glyph for fights where that is potentially useful and use the FH glyph if you're finding you're running into mana problems and you think the glyph will make a difference. Chances are, depending on your gear, you can probably run the PoH for most fights even if FH is a fair amount of your healing. That said, I think there's only a few fights where the PoH glyph will possibly have a meaningful impact on healing.

  7. #7

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Flash Heal isn't useful, which is the problem. In most ICC fights you'll be using Binding Heal instead of Flash Heal due to damage auras. Even the fights where you might use Flash Heal more than Binding Heal those aren't fights that you will go OOM on. The only fight where that comes up is Lich King and you'll never have time to be casting Flash Heal. In regard to the PoH glyph just stacking meters? That's ridiculous. The fights where you'll use PoH substantially all have damage auras so you generally will get a nice chunk of healing from the glyph. Some will argue that it's just ticks of 6-800 and those won't save anyone, but that isn't true either. Stabilizing raid health is just as important as saving someone in danger because if the raid is unstable then people will die that could have been kept out of danger entirely. Remember that even at ticks of 600 the glyph is adding up to 6,000 damage per cast.

    The final argument is just that Disc shouldn't be casting PoH, which stems from the belief that raid shielding is the best strategy for a great deal of fights. The fact is Disc has a problem with throughput, while having an abundance of regen and since PoH is high throughput it helps fill that gap. PoH is 3-4 times better than PW:S on effective healing per cast so when you can get a full, or even 50% healing cast off, you should cast it. PoH should be used on these fights in ICC: Festergut (1-2 inhales), Putricide, Princes (Valanaar only), Blood Queen, Dreamwalker (if not on boss), Sindragosa, Marrowgar (HM bonestorm).

    So, Flash Heal reduces the cost of a very cheap spell that you rarely use and PoH increases the output of a heal you should be using in ICC. So you have a choice, take a glyph that is only useful on 5 ICC fights (6 HM fights), or a glyph that is useful on none.

  8. #8

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    If you're talking 10mans, I also would give Holy Nova some consideration. Glyphed, it is not an insubstantial heal.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    If you haven't mana issues you'd go by default on the PoH glyph

  10. #10

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    When dealing with raid damage, PW:S will be superior to PoH almost every time. I'd give the glyph a try, but I'm sure it'll not be something you stick with.

    However ...

    In most ICC fights you'll be using Binding Heal instead of Flash Heal due to damage auras.
    Wait ... what? Why on earth would you choose Binding Heal over Flash Heal? Let the other healers take care of AoE damage and focus on what you're there for: absorbs and filler healing.

    Just compare both spells:

    Flash Heal (18% base mana), augmented by Imp. Flash Heal, Renewed Hope and Grace and buffed with a HoT by T10 bonus

    vs.

    Binding Heal (27% base mana), no augmentation, no HoT, not stacking Grace

    Certainly there are situations where you'll cast a Binding Heal, but even when fighting Blood Queen, Sindragosa or the LK, Flash Heal and Bubbles are the superior choice. Most Binding Heals will be overhealing anyway (on your side of the heal), but you've just wasted 9% base mana and gave away a potential hot, an additional stack of grace on your target and the possibility of a Divine Aegis in case your (augmented) Flash Heal had been a crit.

  11. #11

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Prayer of healing is not something that i would be interested in Glyphing.

    The Flash heal Glyph can be viewed another way, it's the only way to lower the cost of the most used spell for a Disc priest. If you have any mana problems (a BIG if there) this is an easy way to help. Additionally consider that there isn't much we can use that 3rd spot for as Disc, to get the equivilant effect out of tallents is not an option and comparing other classes and their tallents to reduce a heal cost by 10% it's 2-5 points worth.

    A useful one is the Dispel Glyph as most things we dispel also have a damage effect and the effective free but very low heal is nice.

  12. #12

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shockk
    When dealing with raid damage, PW:S will be superior to PoH almost every time. I'd give the glyph a try, but I'm sure it'll not be something you stick with.
    You're right for the most part, it's just that I would only say PW:S is superior if there's more damage coming in soon. If the raid took damage and that same group of people won't be taking another decent hit within 30 seconds, then you're shield didn't do anything and you're better off healing them.

    There's so many different situations though and most of the time, what you said is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shockk
    Wait ... what? Why on earth would you choose Binding Heal over Flash Heal? Let the other healers take care of AoE damage and focus on what you're there for: absorbs and filler healing.
    You're explanation about this is pretty good. I usually only use Binding Heal if I'm very low or in danger of dropping very low and I already have Weakened Soul. This way I can heal a tank and get me to a safe amount health at time same time. Most of the time though, Flash heal has many more benefits so it's usually the best choice if you can't or shouldn't cast a PW:S (no damage coming in soon).

    So in short, Binding Heal is kind of an "oh shit" button when me and someone else is extremely low and might possibly die at the same time.

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  13. #13

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by G l o w y r m


    So in short, Binding Heal is kind of an "oh shit" button when me and someone else is extremely low and might possibly die at the same time.
    I agree, I mainly only use it as an ohshit button as well.
    Like fights like festergut hardmode, or if I get pact of the dark fallen on blood queen right as we converge.

  14. #14

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart
    If you haven't mana issues you'd go by default on the PoH glyph
    Honestly, you shouldn't default your third glyph, not really. You should carry around a stack of any that are useful including:
    Holy nova (for spamming on heroics)
    Prayer of Healing (for aoe damage fights like festergut)
    Renew (for tank healing and helping to top off people)
    Flash Heal (if you run out of mana while tank healing)

    Find a guild member that has these, and make a stack of 20 each, and carry them around on raids. Think "what do I need for this progression fight". If it isn't progression, use whatever makes it easier. The mats for the glyphs are cheap, think of them like potions instead of an enchant.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord
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    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Why all the hate for Binding Heal in here? Sure, it doesn't proc 2pT10 or stack Grace, but that's not why it's worth using; it's worth using because you get roughly twice the throughput of a Flash Heal in a single GCD. Casting a PWS on yourself, then casting on someone else takes more time than a single BH, and since Discipline is generally GCD locked, I think saving that time is important. Obviously, there are situations where a PWS on yourself makes more sense, but I think it's in the minority.

  16. #16

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    Why all the hate for Binding Heal in here? Sure, it doesn't proc 2pT10 or stack Grace, but that's not why it's worth using; it's worth using because you get roughly twice the throughput of a Flash Heal in a single GCD. Casting a PWS on yourself, then casting on someone else takes more time than a single BH, and since Discipline is generally GCD locked, I think saving that time is important. Obviously, there are situations where a PWS on yourself makes more sense, but I think it's in the minority.
    You get double the throughput, yet none of the benefits; and your double throughput is worthless if your target needs healing and you don't.

    There's no hate for Binding Heal, either. But it's wrong to argue that in most situations where a Flash Heal could be used, a Binding Heal should be casted instead. BH remains a valuable tool in the priest's toolbox, but it also remains a situational one.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord
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    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shockk
    You get double the throughput, yet none of the benefits; and your double throughput is worthless if your target needs healing and you don't.

    There's no hate for Binding Heal, either. But it's wrong to argue that in most situations where a Flash Heal could be used, a Binding Heal should be casted instead. BH remains a valuable tool in the priest's toolbox, but it also remains a situational one.
    No, I'd never suggest using BH if you don't need healing; anyone that does that is just silly. The reason it was said upthread that FH is barely cast is simply because if you need healing, you should BH, and if you don't, chances are most of your GCDs will be PWS, Penance, PoM, etc. For example, in a damage aura fight like Blood Queen, there's virtually no reason to cast FH because if you're healing yourself BH makes more sense, otherwise you'll do much more HPS on the raid through PoM, PWS, and PoH. I think, if you're using a lot of FHs in that sort of fight, you're doing it wrong.

  18. #18

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shockk
    Just compare both spells:

    Flash Heal (18% base mana), augmented by Imp. Flash Heal, Renewed Hope and Grace and buffed with a HoT by T10 bonus

    vs.

    Binding Heal (27% base mana), no augmentation, no HoT, not stacking Grace
    1. 2pT10 isn't worth taking as Disc, but if it was it's only an 11% bonus to Flash Heal.
    2. As standard 57/14 Penance will fully stack and maintain Grace by itself.
    3. Renewed Hope is nothing but 4% crit.
    4. Binding Heal when both targets are taking damage heals for ~70% more than Flash Heal.


    You're talking about letting other healers handle AOE. What you're really talking about is adding stress to other healers that there is absolutely no reason to add. It's not their job to make up for you being bad.

  19. #19

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    1. 2pT10 isn't worth taking as Disc, but if it was it's only an 11% bonus to Flash Heal.
    I guess that's why no single Top 100 disc priest (let alone legions of normal ones) bothers to take T10? Oh wait ...

    2. As standard 57/14 Penance will fully stack and maintain Grace by itself.
    Yes; on a single target, whenever Penance is not on cooldown. Which is so useful if you have to heal an alternate target with little to no time to spare.

    3. Renewed Hope is nothing but 4% crit.
    Yeah, but that's 4% more than BH has. You're arguing with bonus throughput, a critical FH is nothing else.

    4. Binding Heal when both targets are taking damage heals for ~70% more than Flash Heal.
    And this is the most important part: when both targets are taking damage. More often than not, Binding Heal will end up with massive overhealing and you just having wasted mana.

    You're talking about letting other healers handle AOE. What you're really talking about is adding stress to other healers that there is absolutely no reason to add. It's not their job to make up for you being bad.
    It's amazing what you seem to believe to have interpreted from my post. Disc priests are amazing raid healers, right, that's what PW:S is there for. It's beyond me why you argue to use a clearly inferior, non-talented, mana-consuming heal with situational usefulness every time you could use a Flash Heal.

    I don't argue that in some cases, BH will be the better choice and should be used accordingly, but you're basically advocating to use BH "most of the time", which clearly is the inferior choice. If it were better, you'd see BH having much higher healing % in both Top100 combat logs as well as in those of decent and regular guilds.

  20. #20

    Re: PoH Glyph (Disc)

    As holy, hardly use flash except when its free from crit. I took PoH for xtra heals during major aoe dmg fights

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