Please help: Not putting up the numbers (holy healing)

[kathor]

Some good advices here (although sometimes given with a retarded attitude)... Just a follow-up question about PoH, I assume its value (and position in a "prio list") is affected by the amount of haste you got? How much haste rating is expected in T10 as a holy priest? I started good in ICC, but have ended up loosing more haste than I like in some slots, and I feel I am a bit low now.

Personally, as some of you may have noticed in another thread I posted, I feel I struggle a little as raid healer in ICC now, mostly because a) we are usually running with (too) many raid healers, and b) I feel that our shamans and druids does this job better than me... I hope things change a little when we start doing heroic modes. But right now (normal modes only) I actually feel PoH is not worth it with our raid composition, over PoM/CoH/Renew combos...

[Kelesti]

For your answer, MurphyPI, yes it becomes alot easier of a button to push when you have "more" haste. A counterpoint to that is: You should be able to find places to use it, at any given haste level. It's not Serendipity that allows you to push Prayer of Healing. It's pre-casting and knowledge of an encounter. Stacks of serendipity and/or high quantities of haste (I just broke 1k myself) only help, but if you're not really reaching for the button on your own now, no haste can/will fix that problem.

There's quite a few slots that have haste in ICC, maybe you're not seeing them? It's cool if you're not giving out armories (I myself don't really believe in that), but can I get a Character Profile on wowhead to help see where you might be able to find decent upgrades that have the haste you're looking for?

And on the second part of your post:
Unfortunately, if your run has too many healers now, by the time you hit hard modes it's unlikely that number's actually going to go down. Hard modes won't require more healers, they just require your better ones to step up to the plate, and play their "A-Game". If your guild is likely to dump on too many healers, you'll have all the problems you already have now, plus the fact it's even harder to reach the berserk timers now more than ever.

[Izenhart]

As for why casting CoH on cd.. I won't bother.. I'll just stop here, I guess you even mentioning that says something about your mental capabilities.
It tells you straight away what other top players do and you don't. For BQL you'll see that PoM / CoH are casted instantly when they come off the cd, otherwise PoH.

They are able to do that because they've sick dps'ers giving heals to the raid and most importantly because they do it with 4 or 5 healers.
More healers gives less HPS to everyone. Being less to gain more HPS doesn't mean being better.

You do cast CoH on every CD?

If you do, it means you're in a rather good guild able to do it with 4-5 healers, making heals needed as soon as they're ready.

If not, <insert facepalm picture here>



To the OP, nevermind who tells you about bad gemming, SP is good, haste is good and regen is good. Crit is slighly low but it's not an issue.

Specs are indeed really odd.

The first one has a wasted point in Unbreakable Will, a rather useless Mental Agility considering your mana regen and considering you want to lower mana from your instant spells and then don't take the -20% mana cot for PoM in Healing Prayers.

The second one is slighly better even if not having 3/3 Inspiration equals to TRASH.

I'd go with this http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...ihMcuAo:0NdzMc with the possibility to go 1/2 SoL and 1/2 Healing Prayers, leaving Desperate Prayer too, being able then to go 3/3 Blessed Resilience.

[kathor]

There's quite a few slots that have haste in ICC, maybe you're not seeing them? It's cool if you're not giving out armories (I myself don't really believe in that), but can I get a Character Profile on wowhead to help see where you might be able to find decent upgrades that have the haste you're looking for?

Yeah, this is my wowhead profile...

I know haste means nothing when you are able to pre-cast (which I of course do), the entire "value of PoH" was directed towards the advice of using PoH instead of PoM/CoH/Renew against raid-wide aura damage.

[harky]

I know haste means nothing when you are able to pre-cast (which I of course do), the entire "value of PoH" was directed towards the advice of using PoH instead of PoM/CoH/Renew against raid-wide aura damage.

Well, it's not PoH instead of CoH/PoM, just using PoH as your filler either entirely replacing, or partially replacing Renew. And yeah, Haste helps with that greatly because you're 'precasting' on something that happens every 2 seconds. Haste helps a lot on that since the timer is shorter than your cast time (unless you're at 1269+ haste).

[Restos]

As Kelesti mentioned, what you quoted is in regard to intentionally stacking Serendipity for every PoH you cast, which is a very bad idea. I also strongly recommend Power Auras to all specs of all classes. It can pretty much do everything you want from a good buff timer, DoT timer and proc timer with the advantage of allowing configurable visual and auditory cues for events. Hell, it can be used as a full replacement for boss mods as well if you really want to mess with it.

I see, my bad.

In regards to my previous post, can you enlighten me pls?

[kathor]

Well, it's not PoH instead of CoH/PoM, just using PoH as your filler either entirely replacing, or partially replacing Renew. And yeah, Haste helps with that greatly because you're 'precasting' on something that happens every 2 seconds. Haste helps a lot on that since the timer is shorter than your cast time (unless you're at 1269+ haste).

Yeah, but would you use PoH with as little as 600 haste rating? I would love to see some estimates on what haste values that makes it better than the other fillers spells, because I am sure that it is not with 0 haste (to make an extreme example).

[harky]

It's not a matter of haste, but a matter of over-healing. If you can bring the over-healing down to ~50%, then it's worth casting regardless of haste value. That will never happen in some fights and it's pretty rare on most fights. To give a real rule you'd need to do a comprehensive study on SP, Haste and Crit to see at what points what spells become better options for some situations. It's generally not worth it.

What you need to look at it the relative power of the spells you're casting and how they function. For raw power it's easy enough: Prayer of Healing (glyphed) > Prayer of Mending > Prayer of Healing > Circle of Healing > Renew > Binding Heal > Flash Heal. If you adjust that for execute time then it's this: Prayer of Mending > Circle of Healing > Prayer of Healing (glyphed > unglyphed) > Renew > Binding Heal > Flash Heal. Looking at how they can be implemented is a little weirder though. Circle has a small radius (compared to PoH), but since it's instant it's easy to implement in most fights simply by looking for a cluster of players taking damage. Prayer of Mending is an interesting one and many people will argue that you should always use it on cooldown in every fight, but that isn't correct. It can be used as a strong single target instant heal on tanks, but as that isn't our job it's rarely a good use. It also looks better than it often is because it functionally can not give a full overheal as the target must take damage first. So it becomes very strong on fights with damage auras, but it's pretty situational on fights without a constant source of damage. Renew also falls into that same category and one of the big reasons not to glyph it is to extend the window of opportunity on the target taking damage. Prayer of Healing fits into both the CoH style and the PoM style in that you need a good number of targets to hit and it favors targets taking further damage so the glyph can shine.

I could go on, but.... I have a raid. :P Either way, it's not haste you should be worried about, but the ability to land the heal. Haste will help you land it, but no, even at 0 haste PoH is worth using as long as it will land for a decent amount. The Holy Priest in my main 10 man group only has around 20% haste, something like 664 and he also heavily uses PoH. It's been a long time since I personally ran with such low haste, but it's certainly possible.

[kathor]

I tried something halfway tonight, on BQL25n... CoH+PoM on cooldown, and 50/50 renew and PoH as filler spells.


SpellHealing done Overhealing
CoH27.5%28.6%
Renew21.8%39.8%
PoH19.9%57.9%
PoM18.5%23.1%
Emp. Renew 5.2%17.4%


Basically my problem with using PoH over Renew is our raid composition I guess... Too many healers on the raid for PoH to be worth it... So I guess one may argue that there is no such universal truth that PoH is better in aura based fights, you need to consider other factors as well? And before you say this is because I fail to target the correct group, I would not think so. But one factor is of course clustering. We do not take PoH range into consideration when we position ourselves in this fight, and I guess that will have some impact in the result (I don't have any data now that indicates either good or bad clustering however).

I guess it is worth adding that the aura damage were never causing any serious danger, and it was always under control (that is, everybody mostly with high hp, and no OH SHIT! moments).

[harky]

On normal you need to plan around PoH a bit better if you plan to do that. Also, how many healers were you using? 6? More? Also, PoH range is pretty massive at a 36 yard range from whoever you initially target. For Blood Queen you'd need to target someone against one wall who is in party with someone on the complete opposite side of the room. Also, how much healing did you net from the PoH glyph, or is that included in the 19.9 figure?

Remember the argument was never that PoH should replace all filler on aura fights, but that it has a strong place on them and should be cast when you expect to get minimal overhealing, which is very easy to do on 25H, or 2 healing 10 man normal or hard, but takes planning in normals.

By the way nice job on the Emp. Renew healing. That's pretty impressive actually.

[Restos]

Forgive me for ninja'ing this thread, but i madly need an advice regarding the same things.

This is my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...dare&cn=Strogg

Before flaming me, i know i fucked my gear bad, because i was dumb and picked up hit gear to replace old 245/232 gear which seemed better. Obviously i was wrong and now i realise that maybe i ditched a lot of haste gear.

Also, my spec may seem horrid but i like the way it is, and it fits my playstyle, IMO. If i fucked up a very important talent, please let me know though. It will be apreciated.

My gems were all +23 SP plus 2 more needed for the meta gem, btw. And I don't have mana issues

As always, constructive criticism is welcomed.

Bump

[harky]

Restos, please take this as lightly as possible: The level of help needed in response to your post is better suited to a full gearing and spec guide. You should go read through the spec/glyph/gem sticky and try to apply some of that before asking for additional help. Most of the things that need fixing are simple text-book mistakes and can be fixed with a FAQ better than personalized advice.

[Minia]

I agree. Most people who ask for advice have already read the guides. =]