Warlock dps in WOTLK

[Redbtk]

Is it just me or have warlocks not been ontop of damage meters for a long time? or at all in Wrath? I have a feeling they will shine in Cataclysm. I see geared warlocks but not on top so was wondering if it's just the player or the class itself.

[HavocLock]

Equally skilled/geared, I haven't seen warlocks on top since Naxx. I think we were a bit strong out of the gates with wotlk and a few tweaks brought us down to earth while some classes continue to scale better (ever notice how rogues always start a little weak and scale beyond reason with end game gear?). Just my obervation though...

[harky]

Yeah, Warlocks are behind, but not by a lot.

Top Mages hang out at 14-15k.
Top Rogues hang out at 13-14k.
Top Hunters at 13-14k.
Top Warlocks at 12-13k.

Then you have hybrids in Feral and Fury that come in around the 13-14k range. Warlocks are probably a touch low, but more importantly some hybrids and Mages are a touch high. Especially considering how insanely easy it is to get those numbers.

[Modez]

[Insert name of thread here] is fine.

[HavocLock]

[Insert name of thread here] is fine.

He didn't say if dps is fine or not.. he just said locks are not on top, which is true. I hear forums are a great place for discussions.

[Strah]

Yeah, Warlocks are behind, but not by a lot.

Top Mages hang out at 14-15k.
Top Rogues hang out at 13-14k.
Top Hunters at 13-14k.
Top Warlocks at 12-13k.

Then you have hybrids in Feral and Fury that come in around the 13-14k range. Warlocks are probably a touch low, but more importantly some hybrids and Mages are a touch high. Especially considering how insanely easy it is to get those numbers.

15% below mages is definetely not a lot.

[Jenerena]

Top Mages hang out at 14-15k.
Top Rogues hang out at 13-14k.
Top Hunters at 13-14k.
Top Warlocks at 12-13k.

Lol i've barely scraped 10k ><

Anyway, I think demo locks are VERY strong at the moment. Affliction perhaps a bit behind, destro behind.

[cronix]

Lol i've barely scraped 10k ><

Anyway, I think demo locks are VERY strong at the moment. Affliction perhaps a bit behind, destro behind.

I'm going to disagree. I believe and the general consensus is that afflic is currently the highest personal dps spec, while demo is close behind but provides a much more beneficial raid buff that outweighs the difference in dps from the two specs overall. But in reality it depends on the boss fight, anub is a demo fight while in lady deathwhisper no one come close to beating me as afflic.

Also why do people keep saying locks cant top meters in WOTLK? I have never had a problem staying in the top 5 regardless of how geared/skilled the raid is, even on melee dominant fights like saurfang and festergut. Feel free to check out this world of logs, its pug icc25 i run in each week. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...yze/dd/source/

Seriously guys if u can run a daily heroic, weekly raid and voa. You will be 4piece t10 by now... which means you can top meters. If your gear isnt the problem then its all on you. Watch some dps maximising vids on youtube they explain the mechanics well and it helps alot. Dont ever think you know it all..

[Jenerena]

I think a good lock can top a meter, definitely. Cronix I didn't mean it in the sense demo is stronger dps than affliction. What I really meant was that demo locks are very strong with regards to the buff they bring. I mean, at high gear levels that is around an average of 5k spell power buffed, 500 spell power each. Plus they can shed out some great personal dps, so i meant it on a raid dps level, really.

Someone has to be bottom, right? :P

[jb226]

15% below mages is definetely not a lot.

I disagree completely.

Do you use epic gems in your gear? I guarantee it's less than a 15% DPS change from blue gems. It's less than a 15% difference from not gemming at all. You can probably run around with no gems and no enchants on any of your gear and have a smaller gap between ungemmed you and gemmed you than that 15% difference. At least if you're raiding, I don't think most people are going to be saying it's fine.

And why the difference? Because a warlock chose the "wrong" ranged direct-damage class? I know exact parity is never going to happen, but nobody should be anything near satisfied if the difference really is 15%. In a world where people spend hundreds or thousands of gold to eek out a hundred DPS gain, this is a big deal.

[Goatonlb]

Also why do people keep saying locks cant top meters in WOTLK? I have never had a problem staying in the top 5 regardless of how geared/skilled the raid is, even on melee dominant fights like saurfang and festergut.

It's hard to look at how you do and compare it to the class in general. For instance, only 1-2 people were breaking 10k DPS on any of those given fights in your linked WoL. I would be top DPS in those parses, but am not in my guild, and my guild is 9/12 NORMAL ICC.

If you look at the figures posted above already, that's what they're talking about by "Warlocks can't top meters". If you're doing 6k DPS and your raid is doing 5K, you might be topping the meters, but that information doesn't tell us anything about the class or who is (capable) of doing better. Too many times I've seen people link their own meters as any sort of basis for an argument.

I'm fine with lock DPS currently, but I'm not cutting edge. I can kill what I need to kill, progressing slowly with a great group of people I've come to call friends, and end up topping meters half the time. Is this any indication of how the class is doing on the high end of things compared to the others? No.

I AM of the opinion that classes should be balanced as close as possible around end-game though - it's the fairest way to do things. Often times this means that only 1% of the lock population has any real indicator of how the class stacks up (hence the GC argument about most of the lock population not being good enough to make claims about their classes' DPS), but that's where player skill comes in too. I think if the capability of doing 12k is there, and you're not, then there's room for improvement, and that's what I find exciting about the game. Getting new gear generally means you'll do better, but as we've all come to know in 42 different ways, gear is not everything. This leaves it up to player knowledge/skill to make up the difference, but it's a difference that should be able to be made up.



TLR
So while I (you/anyone) may feel OK with the DPS I (we/anyone) may do in a raid, I'm still of the opinion that it needs to be balanced in the top 1%, where right now we're still a little behind.

[Modez]

He didn't say if dps is fine or not.. he just said locks are not on top, which is true. I hear forums are a great place for discussions.

Then what is the point? Only one class/spec can be on top at a time. So we should whine when we didn't roll an 13 on the 32 sided dice (32 is the number of class/specs and 13 is evil and therefore the 'lock' number I chose) and make forum posts about it?

I am seriously not trying to flame or troll here, but lock DPS is fine. There can only be one king of the shit-pile at a time. For all of BC it was locks - we will get our time again. Whining when we don't though is just a waste.

Yes, you can whine, bitch, moan and complain on the forums. People somehow have assumed that other people want to read their drivel. It's the same concept as why a 3 year old screams bloody murder when they very slightly injure themselves - they want attention.

I just see the forums as a more productive place where instead of whining, we ask each other what we can do differently. Far too many people think they play perfect but yet they are 7th on the meters. Newsflash - those two things can't happen together.

[romeolock]

I'm going to disagree. I believe and the general consensus is that afflic is currently the highest personal dps spec, while demo is close behind but provides a much more beneficial raid buff that outweighs the difference in dps from the two specs overall. But in reality it depends on the boss fight, anub is a demo fight while in lady deathwhisper no one come close to beating me as afflic.

Also why do people keep saying locks cant top meters in WOTLK? I have never had a problem staying in the top 5 regardless of how geared/skilled the raid is, even on melee dominant fights like saurfang and festergut. Feel free to check out this world of logs, its pug icc25 i run in each week. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...yze/dd/source/

Seriously guys if u can run a daily heroic, weekly raid and voa. You will be 4piece t10 by now... which means you can top meters. If your gear isnt the problem then its all on you. Watch some dps maximising vids on youtube they explain the mechanics well and it helps alot. Dont ever think you know it all..

you exactly explained the OP argument. look at your festergut log your 4th and its not even close. #1 kills you by 1400 dps. Thas all the op is saying. Also go check wol i think even with the 5% buff highest warlock dps on any fight is still only like mid 11ks

[romeolock]

hes just saying that he has noticed locks are low. no matter what you think, THEY NEED TO BE FIXED! OMG blizz sees this hence 100% uptime to pact, fix of LT and DP, And the imm crit coming today. also idk much about mages but from what i understand they are getting a bit of a nerf this patch??

[Goatonlb]

Also go check wol i think even with the 5% buff highest warlock dps on any fight is still only like mid 11ks

I have a hard time believing this too. I know personally on fights that my guild's posted logs, I've looked up to see where I was, and when I should have been found on the rankings, I was not. People claim these rankings like they're absolutes, when logs may not be posted or ranked at all. I'd rather believe individual logs that show the DPS # then the ranking system, which seems to leave a lot of people out.

hence 100% uptime to pact, fix of LT and DP, And the imm crit coming today.

The pact thing was to help reduce combat log spam. While it may be a buff coincidently, it was possible to achieve 100% uptime already with good crit and talented.

LT/DP was also to change our dependency on Spirit, as it's going away from DPS gear in Cata. It's actually a nerf to slightly undergeared people or rDPS Demo's.

Immo DoT to crit is a straight up buff, but Destro needed it.

[Jenerena]

Everyone knows a really good mage, a good warlock, a good hunter whatever. But also, every guild is probably going to say a different class, when you ask them 'so what class tops your meters'. Hell, a boomkin tops our meters in 10man. Why? because he is generally a better player than me for a start, and I am missing shammy buffs and bloodlust, unneeded haste to an extent for our moonkin as he is haste capped. Plus he is gaining my demonic pact.

10man is irrelevant of course due to buffs. But does every lock get tricks? Does every lock get to stay on the boss? You just can't compare it. The only way you can is by simcraft, and even then it's not that realistic, as player skill will always get in the way. Even if you put 10 exceptional players of each class next to each other on a fight, the fight mechanics would probably control it, not skill.

It's a neverending argument and one in which I don't care much about. I can do 8k+, it's fine. The only time locks should be worried is if all the locks in the guild are rock bottom despite as good gear. About the class or how they play? well. As long as you are not hitting the enrages, you are competitive not necessarily top...the rest is just E-PEEN.

[Strah]

I disagree completely.

Do you use epic gems in your gear? I guarantee it's less than a 15% DPS change from blue gems. It's less than a 15% difference from not gemming at all. You can probably run around with no gems and no enchants on any of your gear and have a smaller gap between ungemmed you and gemmed you than that 15% difference. At least if you're raiding, I don't think most people are going to be saying it's fine.

And why the difference? Because a warlock chose the "wrong" ranged direct-damage class? I know exact parity is never going to happen, but nobody should be anything near satisfied if the difference really is 15%. In a world where people spend hundreds or thousands of gold to eek out a hundred DPS gain, this is a big deal.

Mate,that was a sarcasm.

Everyone knows a really good mage, a good warlock, a good hunter whatever. But also, every guild is probably going to say a different class, when you ask them 'so what class tops your meters'. Hell, a boomkin tops our meters in 10man. Why? because he is generally a better player than me for a start, and I am missing shammy buffs and bloodlust, unneeded haste to an extent for our moonkin as he is haste capped. Plus he is gaining my demonic pact.

10man is irrelevant of course due to buffs. But does every lock get tricks? Does every lock get to stay on the boss? You just can't compare it. The only way you can is by simcraft, and even then it's not that realistic, as player skill will always get in the way. Even if you put 10 exceptional players of each class next to each other on a fight, the fight mechanics would probably control it, not skill.

It's a neverending argument and one in which I don't care much about. I can do 8k+, it's fine. The only time locks should be worried is if all the locks in the guild are rock bottom despite as good gear. About the class or how they play? well. As long as you are not hitting the enrages, you are competitive not necessarily top...the rest is just E-PEEN.

So it's okay when the same *PURE DEEPS* class, with equal gear, and roughly equivalent skill does 10-15% more dps than you?

Blizzard was saying this bullshit about pure dps> hybrid stuff millions of times, but currently i see ferals and fury warriors raping warlocks, the POOORE dps class on almost every fight, except the ones where we can actively multidot.
That's NOT right, considering the difficulty of corruption rolling and a harder rotation comparing to classes that own us (xcept ferals).

[Jasyn]

Demo is really competing right now, but keep in mind that damage done != dps.

I do 50% of my damage in 30% of the fight. The DPS number is skewed because of this.

People aren't really comparing apples to apples. Theoretical dps is all but meaningless. Mobility is king. A crap geared warlock who doesn't stand in fire will outdps a mage that dies at 95% (or spends half the fight moving instead of choosing a good position, etc) every day of the week.

[Modez]

So it's okay when the same *PURE DEEPS* class, with equal gear, and roughly equivalent skill does 10-15% more dps than you?

Maybe the skill isn't as similar as you assume. Everyone assumes they are better or similar to everyone else, though there will always be someone who does more damage than you.

That's NOT right, considering the difficulty of corruption rolling and a harder rotation comparing to classes that own us (xcept ferals).

C'mon, quit deluding yourself. Corruption rolling isn't that hard. It's a game. Nothing here is 'that hard', except for finding other people who also don't suck.

[gherkin]

but currently i see ferals and fury warriors raping warlocks, the POOORE dps class on almost every fight, except the ones where we can actively multidot.
That's NOT right, considering the difficulty of corruption rolling and a harder rotation comparing to classes that own us (xcept ferals).

I'll let the ferals do more dps than me. I'm cool with that. The warriors only beat you where there are adds. Take out cleave/multi-target whirlwind/bladestorm damage and they do less than you, unless you suck or the fight requires them to stick to the boss like glue and you to move around.

C'mon, quit deluding yourself. Corruption rolling isn't that hard. It's a game. Nothing here is 'that hard', except for finding other people who also don't suck.

Agreed, but I think its a broken buggy mechanic that I don't like doing. There is no difficulty to it, just a pain in the ass.

A crap geared warlock who doesn't stand in fire will outdps a mage that dies at 95% (or spends half the fight moving instead of choosing a good position, etc) every day of the week.

I support this statement, if you change "outdps" to "outdamage". Nerf mages in 4pc T10 doing 22k dps for 30 seconds then getting it in the face.