Whats the difference between healing cloth and DPS cloth gear?

[Vidur]

So, forgive me in advance for being a noob. However, my priest just hit 80 and I have a DS Shadow/Disc build going on. Now, I've never needed to know this in the past since I've only every played a a 'lock, so gear for me has been pretty easy to spot but, whats the difference between healing cloth and DPS cloth? I've gotten in trouble once or twice for rolling on something I thought was a healing upgrade for me, only to be flamed for taking a DPS piece. So...can someone explain this all for me so I don't make the same mistake again?

Edit: I've played enough to know that healers don't need hit. :P

Edit: Alright, just had this happen so I'm going to ask; can I roll against a pure DPS for something like <a href=http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47213> Abyssal Rune </a>? Would we both have the same priority? - OK, thanks. Didn't notice the description but, didn't roll anyways so win-win.

[Frmercury]

Hit

Even then Disc will take pieces with Hit sometimes just because of the increase in SP and base stats. Spirit isn't all that desirable for Shadow or Disc, but there will still be good gear with for both with it.. Crit is more valuable in general for Disc and Haste more valuable in general for Shadow, but both specs use both.

Basically all cloth gear is fair game.

[fabian]

For the most part, anything with Spi on it is probably healer, although a dps can use it, MP5 is a healer stat. Anything with hit is DPS. Int/Crit/Haste are for pure thorough put, either it is DPS or HPS, so it is up for grabs for anyone.

[Deralte]

i heard spirit is bad for disc

[harky]

Edit: I've played enough to know that healers don't need hit. :P

Then, you already know. :P

Optimum gear for Shadow is identical as Discipline except that Shadow needs hit. Neither really likes Spirit, but both wind up with a little bit.

[gaymer77]

Spirit isn't all that desirable for Shadow or Disc, but there will still be good gear with for both with it..

Please don't ever give advice again. Spirit is very good for shadow since it translates into 20% spellpower from the required talent Twisted Faith and 30% spellpower from crits from mind blast/SW/mindflay thanks to the required Glyph of Shadow. Then you factor in Improved Spirit Tap which increases your spirit by 50% from crits from SW and mind blast with those and its a lot of spellpower. While spirit is not the most saught after stat, its still one that is extremely beneficial to shadow.

Again don't ever give advice again.


@Visdur
The only real difference between caster dps gear and healer gear (any armor type not just cloth) is the inclusion of hit on the gear makes it caster dps priority and mp5 is healer priority. Every healer and caster dps can benefit from even small amounts of haste, crit, int, and spirit (except shaman & pallies until Cata). Now just because it has mp5 on it doesn't make it a healer only piece just like a piece with hit on it doesn't make it a caster dps only piece only that those pieces should go to who has priority on it first.

[Deleted]

i heard spirit is bad for disc

It isn't bad per se, but dont go for it if you can help it. Most pieces seem to have either spirit for haste nowadays, go for the haste ones.

With all the gear avaliable nowadays, pretty much all casters are after the same stuff, expect healers only going for hit if the other stats are a major upgrade and no DPS want it. Mana regen is not the issue anymore, it is putting out enough heals in your GCDs to keep everyone alive.
Get pretty much the same gear, go for generic spell power/haste gemming, and you will pretty much a decent set for both.

[fabian]

i heard spirit is bad for disc

I heard you can not comprehend posts.

Please don't ever give advice again. Spirit is very good for shadow since it translates into 20% spellpower from the required talent Twisted Faith and 30% spellpower from crits from mind blast/SW/mindflay thanks to the required Glyph of Shadow. Then you factor in Improved Spirit Tap which increases your spirit by 50% from crits from SW and mind blast with those and its a lot of spellpower.

Again don't ever give advice again.

You tell him, the person with the correct advice, to never give advice again? Are you crazy? Do you know anything about spriest or casters in general?

Everyone knows that for shadow, stats goes like this:
Hit(until cap) > SP > Haste > Crit > Spi > Int > Hit(after cap)

So why would you go for Spi pieces when it is entirely possible to get Haste/Crit pieces?, assuming you are already hit capped.

[Abandon]

Please don't ever give advice again. Spirit is very good for shadow since it translates into 20% spellpower from the required talent Twisted Faith and 30% spellpower from crits from mind blast/SW/mindflay thanks to the required Glyph of Shadow. Then you factor in Improved Spirit Tap which increases your spirit by 50% from crits from SW and mind blast with those and its a lot of spellpower. While spirit is not the most saught after stat, its still one that is extremely beneficial to shadow.

Again don't ever give advice again.

Stop trying to correct people.

Spirit is the last possible that that you want on your gear out of all DPS stats. The only stat which you gain less DPS from on cloth as Shadow is MP5.

The person you are trying to correct is right, Spirit isn't very desirable. If there was a choice between items with spellpower and crit, haste or spirit, then spirit would always be the last choice. That doesn't mean every piece of gear with spirit on it is terrible. Some are very good, but they would be better for Shadow or usually Disc if the Spirit were replaced with a pure damage/throughput stat.

Don't be so quick to correct people without reading through their posts.

[zsun]

Edit: Alright, just had this happen so I'm going to ask; can I roll against a pure DPS for something like <a href=http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47213> Abyssal Rune </a>? Would we both have the same priority?

No you cannot, DPS has higher priority for that item. The reason is that the trinket specifically procs on HARMFUL spells. Healers are not supposed to be casting HARMFUL spells.

[Raegon7]

Edit: Alright, just had this happen so I'm going to ask; can I roll against a pure DPS for something like <a href=http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47213> Abyssal Rune </a>? Would we both have the same priority?

Whats that last key word in the Abyssal Rune description?
Only on harmful spells you say? Are healers casting HARMFUL spells? No? Then it would AND should only go to you if you went as a dps or if no other dps needs it.
I don't have to have a priest to know that because I read the description thoroughly.

[Video Games]

Please don't ever give advice again. Spirit is very good for shadow since it translates into 20% spellpower from the required talent Twisted Faith and 30% spellpower from crits from mind blast/SW/mindflay thanks to the required Glyph of Shadow. Then you factor in Improved Spirit Tap which increases your spirit by 50% from crits from SW and mind blast with those and its a lot of spellpower. While spirit is not the most saught after stat, its still one that is extremely beneficial to shadow.

Again don't ever give advice again.

Quoted just so people actually see GOOD advice.

Anyway, rolling for an abyssal rune as a healer isn't very smart, it procs off harmful spells, but if you were rolling on it for shadow then it's pretty damn good for shadow.

[fabian]

Quoted just so people actually see GOOD advice.

Anyway, rolling for an abyssal rune as a healer isn't very smart, it procs off harmful spells, but if you were rolling on it for shadow then it's pretty damn good for shadow.

If by good, you mean horrible? Do I need to post the order of stats for shadow, again? Not to mention how wrong he is. Imp Spi Tap does not increase your Spi by 50%, it is 10%, which results in a very low amount of SP no matter how much Spi you have.

[Video Games]

If by good, you mean horrible? Do I need to post the order of stats for shadow, again? Not to mention how wrong he is. Imp Spi Tap does not increase your Spi by 50%, it is 10%, which results in a very low amount of SP no matter how much Spi you have.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42407 go? With the amount of spirit I have, I get about 250 sp, which is quite a lot.

[gaymer77]

You tell him, the person with the correct advice, to never give advice again? Are you crazy? Do you know anything about spriest or casters in general?

Everyone knows that for shadow, stats goes like this:
Hit(until cap) > SP > Haste > Crit > Spi > Int > Hit(after cap)

So why would you go for Spi pieces when it is entirely possible to get Haste/Crit pieces?, assuming you are already hit capped.

Spirit is the last possible that that you want on your gear out of all DPS stats. The only stat which you gain less DPS from on cloth as Shadow is MP5.

The person you are trying to correct is right, Spirit isn't very desirable. If there was a choice between items with spellpower and crit, haste or spirit, then spirit would always be the last choice. That doesn't mean every piece of gear with spirit on it is terrible. Some are very good, but they would be better for Shadow or usually Disc if the Spirit were replaced with a pure damage/throughput stat.

Actually I know spriests very well. While spirit isn't the best stat a spriest wants, its not something to just throw away or say that spriests don't benefit from spirit at all because that is 100% false. Spirit translates directly into spellpower in two ways for a spriest. Yes haste is the most desirable stat for a spriest (actually higher than SP currently) its not the only stat that gives spriests more dps. Crit used to be our desired stat after spellpower because it was the only thing we benefited from (except in BC when haste was what you went for after you hit 1400 SP raid buffed). Hell even before our dots benefited from haste recently spirit was better than other stats because spirit meant spellpower AND crit before the change to shadowform.

In the end, you won't typically be making decisions where there is only spellpower, stam, int, and spirit on one piece and spellpower, stam, int, and haste/crit on another. You'll be choosing haste over crit or mp5 over spirit or hit over haste/crit/mp5/spirit since nearly all cloth will have spellpower, stam, and int on it with 1 or 2 of the "filler" stats put in in one way or another. Where the person's decision needs to come in is deciding if they need what stat is going to be upgraded the most & decide if its worth it to lose something else (like is it worth giving up 45 haste to pick up 15 spellpower and 50 spirit or giving up 10 spellpower to pick up 50 crit...etc, etc, etc)

[harky]

Yeah uh, about that. If you can help it as Shadow, you should not be taking Spirit on gear. Crit, Haste and Hit are all better. You will gem Spirit, but taking Spirit based gear is a last resort if there is no other option. In at least one slot there isn't an option, so you'll wind up with more spirit than just gemming/enchanting. That doesn't mean Spirit is at all a good stat. It's better than it is for Disc, but overall it's a crappy stat. If you can take Haste, Crit, or Hit (up to cap) instead of Spirit, you should.

It's not horrible in that it does give a DPS increase, but to call it a good stat is overstating its worth. Hit is a great stat, haste is a great stat, spellpower is a great stat, crit is a good stat, spirit is an okay stat. Spirit is better than Int, Hit past the cap, mp5, strength, agility, stamina and attack power. Essentially it beats stats with zero DPS gain and gets beaten by any stat with a DPS gain.

[gaymer77]

If by good, you mean horrible? Do I need to post the order of stats for shadow, again? Not to mention how wrong he is. Imp Spi Tap does not increase your Spi by 50%, it is 10%, which results in a very low amount of SP no matter how much Spi you have.

Yes I made a typo when I was replying. My bad for just waking up and not having a shower to wake me up before replying to this. I will correct myself and say that its a 50% chance with mind flay and 100% chance with mind blast to increase your spirit by 10% which is still a good amount of spellpower in the end. I'm in so-so gear atm because I haven't been raiding for personal reasons & with my 900ish spirit that means 90 spellpower. How many pieces of gear are you upgrading that would be that much spellpower increase? Especially since there is no ICD on the proc. Also given how many adds there are fights these days even the regular spirit tap is a big ass boost if you get the killing blow (DOUBLE YOUR SPIRIT = DOUBLE SPELLPOWER FROM TWISTED FAITH YOU NORMALLY WOULD HAVE). Lets just take my measly 900 spirit that becomes 1800 spirit and 180 spellpower. Explain again why spirit is bad.

Again I'll refer you back to what I had said in my first post

While spirit is not the most saught after stat, its still one that is extremely beneficial to shadow.

[Elysia]

Actually I know spriests very well. While spirit isn't the best stat a spriest wants, its not something to just throw away or say that spriests don't benefit from spirit at all because that is 100% false.

Except the guy that you so rudely tried to correct never said that spriests don't benefit from spirit AT ALL. He simply said it isn't a highly desirable stat, but that there is still good gear for spriests with spirit on it.

[Video Games]

Except the guy that you so rudely tried to correct never said that spriests don't benefit from spirit AT ALL. He simply said it isn't a highly desirable stat, but that there is still good gear for spriests with spirit on it.

^. Nobody said GO for spirit, but hell if it isn't useful. Gives me quite a bit of sp, which is never a bad thing.

[fabian]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42407 go? With the amount of spirit I have, I get about 250 sp, which is quite a lot.

Ok, can you read? I'm asking that because that is not Improved Spirit Tap.

(actually higher than SP currently)

Give armory/link please, because Haste is just slightly under SP in importance. Now if haste affected SW:P...

Yes I made a typo when I was replying. My bad for just waking up and not having a shower to wake me up before replying to this. I will correct myself and say that its a 50% chance with mind flay and 100% chance with mind blast to increase your spirit by 10% which is still a good amount of spellpower in the end.

Not really, it gives around 50 SP in high Spi gear.

When raiding, the odds of actually getting Spi Tap is very low, which is why it is not used in calculations.

^. Nobody said GO for spirit, but hell if it isn't useful. Gives me quite a bit of sp, which is never a bad thing.

Again, you clearly can't comprehend posts. No one said Spi is not useful, no one said it doesn't increase your DPS, but what harky said(and it is true), haste, crit and hit are more important and is actually very abundant on gear.