Fire Totems and ICC raidbuff

[Fornaw]

So given the fact that pets are now supposed to scale with the ICC buffs I got curious and decided to see how that worked out. I got some odd results and I'm looking for some more data. First I checked a Felguard, Hellscream's Warsong shows up on this pet. Then I summoned and checked my wolves, again Hellscream's Warsong is a listed buff. I checked fire totems, none of them show the buff. I checked and elementals do not show the buff.

Now for the really wierd part. Obviously we need to know if our elementals and fire totems are benefiting from this effect, but taking a reasonable sample of magma/fire ele damage in ICC with no party buffs is pretty difficult. The best method I can think of is to check health on elementals since Warsong gives a health bonus. I logged out inside ICC, did a random on an alt and logged back in. With just UR and the flask I still had up my Earth Ele had 26237 health, my Fire Ele 16174 health. I logged out and did another random, then logged back in and went to Dal. My only buffs remained UR and the Flask. Earth Ele 26237 health, Fire Ele 15404 health. For those of you playing along at home this would suggest that the Fire Elemental is benefiting from Hellscream's Warsong but not the Earth Elemental.

I have to admit I know very little about Elemental scaling. Can anyone provide some evidence that would verify this? Can anyone think of a good damage test?

Edit: I didn't include the fact that my offhand was enchanted with flametongue for both trials, this should surprise no one, but it needs to be included for accuracy.

[jswivel]

I haven't tested so I'm not positive but I'm under the assumption that since elementals are guardians and not pets they shouldn't get the buff.

[Fornaw]

I haven't tested so I'm not positive but I'm under the assumption that since elementals are guardians and not pets they shouldn't get the buff.

Pets, guardians or w/e we're going to have scaling issues if our totems fail to scale with the ICC buffs up to 30%. Further as near as I can tell Blizzard sometimes says Pets and means both controllable pets and guardians, ex with AoE avoidance.

[jswivel]

Pets, guardians or w/e we're going to have scaling issues if our totems fail to scale with the ICC buffs up to 30%. Further as near as I can tell Blizzard sometimes says Pets and means both controllable pets and guardians, ex with AoE avoidance.

Somehow I doubt they're going to let guardian pets get the buff seeing as though there are so many things that are classified as such. Dancing Rune Weapon, Gargoyle, Bloodworms, Treants, Val'kyr, Cadaver, Earth and Fire Elementals and possibly fire totems, Treants, Mirrors... And more! We're not the only class with a disadvantage.

[slipshade]

Somehow I doubt they're going to let guardian pets get the buff seeing as though there are so many things that are classified as such. Dancing Rune Weapon, Gargoyle, Bloodworms, Treants, Val'kyr, Cadaver, Earth and Fire Elementals and possibly fire totems, Treants, Shadowfiend, Mirrors... And more! We're not the only class with a disadvantage.

LOL shadowfield 30% more dmg would be alot of mana

[jswivel]

LOL shadowfield 30% more dmg would be alot of mana

I took shadowfiend out because I believe they have a pet bar so they would be in the same category as spirit wolves so they should get the buff.

[Contion_BB]

All totems Scale with our Stats... I am not sure why Earth Elemental did not show a change but I can ensure you the DPS from my fire elemental was changed (i use skada to see its dmg)


as for the Spirit Wolves they too get the stats increase.

I am sure all guardian spells get the buff too since all the Guardian spells Scale off the Stats of the person that cast them...

definitely something to check out with a GM about Earth Elemental Totem not scaling.

[Fornaw]

Somehow I doubt they're going to let guardian pets get the buff seeing as though there are so many things that are classified as such. Dancing Rune Weapon, Gargoyle, Bloodworms, Treants, Val'kyr, Cadaver, Earth and Fire Elementals and possibly fire totems, Treants, Mirrors... And more! We're not the only class with a disadvantage.

I suppose the question then becomes why shouldn't all these guardians scale with the ICC buffs?

Offhand I can think of a number of classes that have no guardian pets in any tree. Rogues, paladins, warriors, hunters, warlocks (maybe excepting infernal, but I haven't seen one of those in a long while). Most classes and specs will scale fully with the ICC buffs, any that don't should compile information to prove it and submit this information to Blizzard.

As far as magma totem goes I fully suspect that it actually does scale with the ICC buffs. I believe that the damage per tick is calculated when we drop the totem. I think its logical that since magma scales with the Enh 2 piece magma should scale with Hellscream's Warsong. I'd still love to see someone suggest a good method to test this though.

All totems Scale with our Stats... I am not sure why Earth Elemental did not show a change but I can ensure you the DPS from my fire elemental was changed (i use skada to see its dmg)


as for the Spirit Wolves they too get the stats increase.

I am sure all guardian spells get the buff too since all the Guardian spells Scale off the Stats of the person that cast them...

definitely something to check out with a GM about Earth Elemental Totem not scaling.

Hellscream's Warsong is NOT a stats increase. This is why pets did not initially scale with it, pets have always scaled with at least some of their master's stats. Pets generally do not scale with buffs on their master (unless of course it is a stat buff). Wolves were not scaling with Warsong until today. You say you use skada to see that the Fire Ele scales, what do you mean? You know that it scales with SP correct? SP in raids is much higher than outside of raids, it is only natural that your elemental would do more damage. I suppose I could just wait for Warsong to stack to 15% the compare VoA to ICC, at that point the buff would overcome the small sample size that can be generated given the 2 min uptime, but I would rather not wait until things get out of hand.

[Dedweight]

I am sure all guardian spells get the buff too since all the Guardian spells Scale off the Stats of the person that cast them...

Damage Buff != Stat Buff.

[Tellaria]

The OP's question is a pretty valid one, I was having that same concern myself and haven't found a good way to verify this yet...

My original assumptions were that they had included the guardians scaling when they fixed the scaling for pets in general... but now you have me doubting Fornaw.

In any case its undeniable that for the buff to grant balanced scaling for all classes, the guardians have to benefit from it. I sure hope Blizzard realised that when they fixed the scaling for pets, it would be silly to only take the step half way into the right direction.. but you never know.

So yes, if anyone has additional info, please share the tests you made or conclusions you have reached with us!

[nazrakin]

Somehow I doubt they're going to let guardian pets get the buff seeing as though there are so many things that are classified as such. Dancing Rune Weapon, Gargoyle, Bloodworms, Treants, Val'kyr, Cadaver, Earth and Fire Elementals and possibly fire totems, Treants, Mirrors... And more! We're not the only class with a disadvantage.

Its an across the board damage increase for all classes, so theres absolutely no reason that guardians shouldn't benefit from them.