Shadow's Edge or Bone Arbiter?

[Noventa]

After looking in Rawr, Bryntroll was said to be better then Shadow's Edge. On the other hand the sub-frost Unholy set on EJ says to use and proc weapon whereas sub-blood says to use one with out such as Shadow's Edge. Since I have both specs and weapons what would you say would yield the best results?

[DaLeetPawner]

Shadow's Edge is said to be better for DKs

[yeto]

I play a ret and have less use for the arp then you have and still shadows edge is better for me, so im pritty sure its better for you aswell, but keep the bone arbiter for pvp.

[rahzgarrh]

A raider never ask theese questions :P

[Frostweaver]

i look at this from this angle...

if u use proc wpn .. which usualy doesnt have any additional stats on them u lose the stats which are essential sometimes to u and have to reconfigure the whole gear due to that which can be a big loss if u lose big chunk of some stats... i personaly prefer stat wpns.. like shadows edge or some other but defo stats wpns. simply gives u something for cnstant use.. not something that might proc when u hit..

[Dreadknight]

I got Bryntroll and found it to be a very very good weapon. Upon acquiring Shadow's Edge, I questioned the people who claimed Bryntroll to be better because the loss of the stats on Bryntroll (including that extra strength) is surely going to better for your moves to be hitting harder, rather than having a proc move hitting aswell as your other moves.

As a result of my own reasoning, Bryntroll is now my Tanking weapon and Shadow's Edge my DPS and I'd not even change back if it was fact that Bryntroll is better :P

[Arthasol]

The reason they are saying to use a proc weapon with the frost. Subspec is because of the haste buff your going to get. Makes more auto-attacks thus more procs .
They also show that for subspec frost to be worth it you must be running above average gear. 4pc T10 and 251/264 gear. Otherwise the blood subspec scales better.
Ultimately try the weapons see what works. For myself I'm running sub-frost with Bryn Troll and its working very well for me. I have seen a dps increase since before patch.

[Noventa]

I see thanks for the replies people I appreciate it as for my gear heres my armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Blackpoole
I tested out both during my ICC25run and got of course different results, so in a general sense then do you think I would see a dps increase using Shadow's Edge with the sub-frost spec or should i just stick with the blood sub spec?

[Arthasol]

With you current gear and that haste trinket I would go subfrost with bryntroll. that trinket is a boat of haste.
You have a nice. gear set there
Couple things i would tweak.
Change you meta to the agi meta. And switch you blue gem in your pants to 20 str
And try to get expertise capped. That will give you a big increase in auto attack dmg and thus increase your procs of brynntroll

[Noventa]

thanks for the feedback, as far as the expertise goes i just got ring of rotting sinew last night but i do have Skeleton Lord's Circle so ill throw that on but ill be getting the badge cloak pretty soon so before i waste another gem i wanna see where im at with the cloak. and as for the purple gem in my leg thats keeping my meta activated but i see what you're saying.

[Floreon]

They also show that for subspec frost to be worth it you must be running above average gear. 4pc T10 and 251/264 gear. Otherwise the blood subspec scales better.

Do you know what scaling means?

[Philenia]

Got both weapon if is yes then goto :next
Get both weapon
:next
Take weapon one dps with it on a boss do the week later the same thing with the other

check your dps of both fights and then compare.

[Noventa]

like i said earlier and got different results i even went to the test dummy and got different results. Thanks for the replies but im asking in a general sense in you guys' opinion what would be best seeing as how ive done my own testing and there hasnt really been a definitive conclusion yet. So lets move on from see which does higher and use that one lol thanks again.

[Pieterman]

dont use rawr or whatever, do your own math. just check the proc chance and damage, see if you need the extra crit/arp.
if ur pro enough to get those weapons, u shud be pro enough to decide. the diff is minimal anyways.

[Arthasol]

Do you know what scaling means?

I do. do you?
elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-unholy_dps_3_3_3_beautiful_day/
Please and read the specs.
They cleary state that. Blade armor in bloobsub does not scale well as armor on dps gear does not vary greatly.
Meaning that the as your gear increases blade armor does basically the same cuz armor doesnt change a lot
Unlike the 4% str increase from endless winter. Str on gear as you upgrade increase a lot. Thus SCALING better

So with lower gear lvl blood scales better. At high gear lvls frost scales better as str increases.

If your going to call some out know what your talking about first

[Arthasol]

and as for the purple gem in my leg thats keeping my meta activated but i see what you're saying.

Your nightmares tear will activate the agi and 3% dmg meta by itself so you wont need that purple.

[Momome]

I do. do you?
elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-unholy_dps_3_3_3_beautiful_day/
Please and read the specs.
They cleary state that. Blade armor in bloobsub does not scale well as armor on dps gear does not vary greatly.
Meaning that the as your gear increases blade armor does basically the same cuz armor doesnt change a lot
Unlike the 4% str increase from endless winter. Str on gear as you upgrade increase a lot. Thus SCALING better

So with lower gear lvl blood scales better. At high gear lvls frost scales better as str increases.

If your going to call some out know what your talking about first

Actually, not to be a tool, but you don't know what scaling means :P

While you clearly understand why blood subspecs are better at lower gear levels, the concept of scaling refers to the added benefit received by upgrading gear, and NOT the dps difference at a certain gearpoint. In this case, frost subspecs scale better than blood subspecs, because as you get better gear, the benefit you receive from frost grows faster than the benefit you receive from blood.

[Arthasol]

Actually, not to be a tool, but you don't know what scaling means :P

While you clearly understand why blood subspecs are better at lower gear levels, the concept of scaling refers to the added benefit received by upgrading gear, and NOT the dps difference at a certain gearpoint. In this case, frost subspecs scale better than blood subspecs, because as you get better gear, the benefit you receive from frost grows faster than the benefit you receive from blood.

Ok ill meet you half way
I definitely worded it wrong for the understanding of bloodsub "scaling" better at low gear lvls as it obviously doesnt really scale at all.
Let me try to word it right lol
Bloodsub yields more dps at lower gear lvls
At the T10 itemization lvl frostsub scales better with your gear as it effectively increases your str instead ap through blade armor

Is that better
And by the way I appreciate that you comment but also explained unlike prior poster just called out with no added info. If i word something wrong its a mistake and would like to know how to word it properly .

[Noventa]

thanks for the feed back once more guys. In the meantime and before the post I had been testing this myself still though with varied results. So now im going to be looking in to the sub-frost spec while using Shadow's Edge instead of Bryntroll.

[Vindicatu]

Am I mixing things up now, or not ?
I see you guys talking about how sub blood is for lower level gear and frost sub spec is for higher lvl gear.

Elistist are stating the following though :

[Blood Sub-spec Without Reaping] | 17/0/54
The most optimal single target build when poorly geared (which, in this context, is anything before 4P T9).

[Frost Sub-spec Without Reaping] | 0/17/54
The most optimal single target build when moderately geared (which, in this context, is anything from 4P T9 and beyond) and using a proc weapon (Bryntroll or Shadowmourne).

[Blood Sub-spec With Reaping] | 14/0/57
The most optimal single target build when moderately geared (which, in this context, is anything from 2P T10 and beyond) and using a non-proc weapon (Cryptmaker or Shadow's Edge).

Doesn't that make the sub blood spec the better choice for high lvl gear ?