Rogues, underpowered?

[MadiM]

Hi there
Today i was reading a threat in the PvP section called Arena rage. There was this pool of what thing makes you rage most in arenas. The thing that surprised me was that someone said Rogues(Ofc that maybe he's just trolling, or he's noob but let's say for the sake of the argument that he's an experienced pvp'er)Not warriors, not hunters, not mages, but rogues.
I've been playing rogue for a very long time, up to 2200 ratings in the 2's bracket in s3/s4, but i quit pvp since S5, and i focused on pve, for the only reason that i find rogues to be one of the most underpowered classes when it comes to arena pvp. Let's review it(from my POV)

Damage: Medium-Low(there is no rogue out there except for the ones geared end-game that can say they do the same or at lest NEAR the damage a warrior/fdruid/mage/warlock does)
Mobility: Low(self-explanatory, and everybody who plays a rogue knows it)
Utility: High(now this the only reason I can think of when someone says they rage when they face a rogue in arena)
Survability: Low(i don't find evasion as a good survability cd, it doesen't compare from a mile with detterence/shield wall/etc)
Comps: Now this is a place where rogues almost excel, with, i admit, a LOT of comps from where u can choose from: RLS, RMP, fDRP, rPalaRP, etc. But i still find that in these comps I always get carried by the other dps and i'm there just to cripple the other team(this wasn't the cast in TBC and early WoTLK)

TL;DR: Are rogues that annoying/good in arena 3's bracket? Can they be compared with Warriors and Hunters? Does the damage increase to the point where u can drop by yourself a healer in s8 gear? What is your opinion on rogues in s8
EDIT: If you're one of those XXXX trollls who wants to post something like: you are the most overpowered class in pvp right now, l2p, you're pressing the wrong buttonz QQ. Check this before posting http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/ I hope you understand

[Enimo]

This is actually true, I'm playing with a arcane mage and resto shaman in 3s. And my job is to cc the healer/ sap/blind/stunlock so the mage can kill some1 with hero popped. This end up with my doing like 1/3 of the mages damage and 1/2 damage vs 3 dps setups

[Khano]

The rogue's burst is probably the highest in the game, as you can read on mmo's blue quote and not only that but it can be delivered while the target is unable to defend itself.

Rogues who go evenom tactic in pvp have insane burst even on plate armor, which is supposed to mitigate physical attacks but all it does it mitigate those from dks and warriors as paladins do a lot of magical damage and rogues' envenom ignores armor. On my dk, I wouldn't mind being given mail armor but boosting the magical damage of scourge strike some more.

[adnre]

what Khano said is why i still hate rogues, you just die in stunlocks or else get disarmed when u want to defend yourself right after the stunlocks

[daywalk8r]

I still say there can be a bigger increase dps. still to low at the moment

[MadiM]

The rogue's burst is probably the highest in the game, as you can read on mmo's blue quote and not only that but it can be delivered while the target is unable to defend itself.

Rogues who go evenom tactic in pvp have insane burst even on plate armor, which is supposed to mitigate physical attacks but all it does it mitigate those from dks and warriors as paladins do a lot of magical damage and rogues' envenom ignores armor. On my dk, I wouldn't mind being given mail armor but boosting the magical damage of scourge strike some more.

I seriously doubt that rogues do more burst than a mage, and the target can defend itself because the stunlock doesen't last for 9 seconds like in TBC, a full duration kidney on an orc ms warr or a dp that has stun duration reduce from meta lasts for 3.5 seconds. That's about the duration of the intercept stun.
And on plate we have only 1 weapon. Envenom. Maybe 2 if you count posion procs that are also nature damage. But envenom itself needs 5 stacks of dp + 5 cps, it's not like it's possible to mash that ability. It has a medium crit chance, because there are no talents/glyphs that can boost the crit of it(like http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42961 for eviscerate, or http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=13866for mutilate, etc).

Also the thing that a lot of players don't know is that it takes a lot of sacrifice from the rogues overall damage to be able to envenom. You need to pass a lot of talents that increase damage in favor of more poison procs, and also you need to give up more offhand weapon damage(higher mutilate damage) for a 1.4 one that gives lower mut dmg, again only for more poison procs.

[Horrid Crow]

Rogues, underpowered?
Hahahahaha.

Sorry, but from a Hunter and Warlocks point of view, you Rogues can all go die in a fire.
It's not even a fun fight for me on my Warlock. On my Hunter I got a chance, but usually not if you manage to disarm me before I can disarm you.

[ItachiZaku]

As resto, I don't even bother paying attention to rogues. With enough resil, a rogue doesn't matter. If he is focused on me, my partners can 2v2.

What pisses me off is that a rogue can still stealth out of faerie fire when they shouldn't be able to.

[antifreeze]

damn duno seeing rogue's stun and killing me while his priest mana draining me is pissing me of.
I d say rogues are the best pvp class for all seasons if u know how to play. The only problem with them is running in aoe or in flares.

[Mihalik]

Rogue is underpowered against very very specific things, things that can severly limit its mobility and can keep them out of stealth and can get out of stun locks...basicaly Death Knights and godmode Resto druids. Tho Resto druids in the curent state could simply get a passive talent called Melee Imunity, as they are imune to almost all melee.

Otherwise....rogue is big time overpowered. The only problem that the vast majority of rogues simply refuses to adapt to times...they expect...ney...DEMAND! that everything must die in a single eternal stun lock. Well those days are gone.

Today being a rogue is about stuning in the right moment, getting out of combat, re-engage in the right moment, get out of combat etc. Rogue burst is RADICALY high, coupled that they can deliver that while their target is stun locked and Mortal striked...i mean honestly what more do you want?

And besides Bleeds anything that is meant to keep you out of stealth can be dispelled. Now dont demand that you be abile to do everything by yourself...just get the right partner.

[GrieverXIII]

Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.

[lilbandit]

Hi there
Today i was reading a threat in the PvP section called Arena rage. There was this pool of what thing makes you rage most in arenas. The thing that surprised me was that someone said Rogues(Ofc that maybe he's just trolling, or he's noob but let's say for the sake of the argument that he's an experienced pvp'er)Not warriors, not hunters, not mages, but rogues.
I've been playing rogue for a very long time, up to 2200 ratings in the 2's bracket in s3/s4, but i quit pvp since S5, and i focused on pve, for the only reason that i find rogues to be one of the most underpowered classes when it comes to arena pvp. Let's review it(from my POV)

Damage: Medium-Low(there is no rogue out there except for the ones geared end-game that can say they do the same or at lest NEAR the damage a warrior/fdruid/mage/warlock does)
Mobility: Low(self-explanatory, and everybody who plays a rogue knows it)
Utility: High(now this the only reason I can think of when someone says they rage when they face a rogue in arena)
Survability: Low(i don't find evasion as a good survability cd, it doesen't compare from a mile with detterence/shield wall/etc)
Comps: Now this is a place where rogues almost excel, with, i admit, a LOT of comps from where u can choose from: RLS, RMP, fDRP, rPalaRP, etc. But i still find that in these comps I always get carried by the other dps and i'm there just to cripple the other team(this wasn't the cast in TBC and early WoTLK)

TL;DR: Are rogues that annoying/good in arena 3's bracket? Can they be compared with Warriors and Hunters? Does the damage increase to the point where u can drop by yourself a healer in s8 gear? What is your opinion on rogues in s8

right now, rogues are insane damage. they have so many tools to escape damage, and even more to output damage. if you die to anything as a rogue, quite frankly you have failed.

[The519krew]

rogues just like to qq end of story tis why they get buffed in every patch!

[Ceara]

Damage - Not only do Rogues have a good damage output, but they can do it while stunlocking the person and keeping the secondary target CC'ed. If the "Low Damage" you're referring to involves them not being able to kill someone within one stunlock anymore, well sorry, but that is not low damage.
Additionally, almost all Rogues have an inherent crippling poison and mortal strike effect which makes their damage that much more potent.
Mobility - I disagree again. They aren't mages, but can cloak out of a lot of slows and sprint is a great movement ability.
Utility - Probably the highest out of any class.
Survivability - If you stand there and don't use any cooldowns, yes, your survivability sucks. However, Evasion, Feint and Cloak of Shadows are some of the best defensive cooldowns out there. Not to mention you are the only class that can wipe everything off you but bleeds (bleeds too if you're a Dwarf) and Vanish and reset the fight.
Comps - I think Rogues are the most versitaile out of any class in terms of comps.


There is a reason everyone hates Rogues in PvP.

[Galith]

Rogues, underpowered?
Hahahahaha.

Sorry, but from a Hunter and Warlocks point of view, you Rogues can all go die in a fire.
It's not even a fun fight for me on my Warlock. On my Hunter I got a chance, but usually not if you manage to disarm me before I can disarm you.

With equal gear level and correct specs a destro warlock with a succubus will beat a rogue every time forever and always in a duel scenario. Seduce > Cheap shot and Kidney shot. (No cloak won't make the rogue win it just means he blew his cloak to get some hits in. Seduce/fear/teleprotlolcbconflagshadowfuryincinerateincinerateconflag will win every time)

[K4ge]

While I am seriously considering trolling around just to piss of the terribad "LOLOL ROUGES R OP, I WEAR 100 RES" babies out there:

Rogues are not overpowered. In fact, rogues are one of the few classes right now, I would consider to be fine. Our sustained damage is rather low, our cooldown burst rather high (but nowhere near mage, ele or destruction), our survivability WITH cds is very high, without extremely low.
That is the main problem and the main strength of rogues right now: with cooldowns up and ready they are VERY powerful, without very weak.

[sec]

K4ge actually pointed it out the way it is.

I don't get the rogue-hate in here. If you survive long enough (rogue blows his CDs) you'll win the fight.

[Tyste]

While I am seriously considering trolling around just to piss of the terribad "LOLOL ROUGES R OP, I WEAR 100 RES" babies out there:

Rogues are not overpowered. In fact, rogues are one of the few classes right now, I would consider to be fine. Our sustained damage is rather low, our cooldown burst rather high (but nowhere near mage, ele or destruction), our survivability WITH cds is very high, without extremely low.
That is the main problem and the main strength of rogues right now: with cooldowns up and ready they are VERY powerful, without very weak.

The thing is, rogues have preparation in pvp which gives them a huge advantage versus classes without cd resets.

I've played rogue since vanilla and I've also been pvping quite a bit with other classes in wotlk and I can tell you this op: rogue is one of the sickest classes to meet in 2v2, and can also be very frustrating in 3v3. Simply because of their evasiveness, damage output with MS, utility and harassment.

It's also very easy to play a rogue in pvp compared to some other classes, the skillcap is lower than most and a majority of it lies in gearing.

I'd suggest PvPing more before complaining about your class op, opinion has little value when RMP and RLS remains two of the strongest combinations in 3v3.

[K4ge]

You've no idea about arena, have you?

Rogues were way underrepresented for the most part of wotlk and preparation doesn't give them an advantage, it makes tehm viable. Rogues are currently the second worst class in arena and rmp is NOT the most popular comp, neither is rls... in fact rsp is above rls.

[Tyste]

You've no idea about arena, have you?

Rogues were way underrepresented for the most part of wotlk and preparation doesn't give them an advantage, it makes tehm viable. Rogues are currently the second worst class in arena and rmp is NOT the most popular comp, neither is rls... in fact rsp is above rls.

I've had a few gladiator titles, but that's about it. But that's offtopic.

I never said rmp or rls are POPULAR comps, I just said they are very strong, which is in fact very true and you'll fail to deny it.

You seem very stuck with your opinion about rogues even though you've yet to give me a good reason of why. All I can figure is that you simply lack the arena experience to play rogue decently, and with your said earlier experience of the severely overpowered rogue of late TBC you fail to realize it. Season that with the fact that you've played PvE for quite a bit and that wotlk PvP is quite different from tbc pvp.

Do realize that the rogue is a melee class, hence they are not as yielding to harassment as e.g. mages which is why people tend to take rogues as higher damage dealers than mages. Sure there are other melee dpsers but none with the same utility and evasiveness. (Think warriors being CCed and DK/palas/druids not having MS).