Rogues, underpowered?

[War]

Yeah rogues don't have the dmg output :-/

Thats why they can pull 2s comps with a healer. If that was teh case then their lack of burst dmg would make them completely unviable in 2s.

Also mages may have more burst dmg but you're still beating out locks. Yeah they have good dmg output (not saying they need a buff) but its more of an outlast build. omg fear bombs? what first fear is like 8 sec then 6 sec then 4 sec or something of that sort-do you think a dot killer can burn people out that fast (especially if there is a healer there)

same with spriests, and they have less fear utility.

a rogue who is saying they lack pvp burst dmg isn't pvping properly. Or they are just butt hurt that wars nuke them (isn't that kinda what they do) because really i see rogues rock pallies and dks in duels all the time.


You wanna talk about lacking burst, play a dk. idk how they been since the patch, but they have not been as great as rogues in the past.


/thread

[K4ge]

I've had a few gladiator titles, but that's about it. But that's offtopic.

I never said rmp or rls are POPULAR comps, I just said they are very strong, which is in fact very true and you'll fail to deny it.

You seem very stuck with your opinion about rogues even though you've yet to give me a good reason of why. All I can figure is that you simply lack the arena experience to play rogue decently, and with your said earlier experience of the severely overpowered rogue of late TBC you fail to realize it. Season that with the fact that you've played PvE for quite a bit and that wotlk PvP is quite different from tbc pvp.

Do realize that the rogue is a melee class, hence they are not as yielding to harassment as e.g. mages which is why people tend to take rogues as higher damage dealers than mages. Sure there are other melee dpsers but none with the same utility and evasiveness. (Think warriors being CCed and DK/palas/druids not having MS).

Sure, you're a gladiator. If I had a nickle someone said that in this forum and wasn't one, I'd be fucking rich by now.
I never said rogues were too weak you tool, I said rogues were fine. A bit too cd dependent (meaning a bit too strong with, too weak without).

[Tyste]

Sure, you're a gladiator. If I had a nickle someone said that in this forum and wasn't one, I'd be fucking rich by now.
I never said rogues were too weak you tool, I said rogues were fine. A bit too cd dependent (meaning a bit too strong with, too weak without).

I'm embarrassed, I seem to have confused you with the op. Which most of my text was directed towards.

[K4ge]

Oh... sorry in that case <.<

[Tyste]

Oh... sorry in that case <.<

I apologize aswell. In fact I actually agree to what you say to a certain degree =]

[MadiM]

Rogues, underpowered?
Hahahahaha.

Sorry, but from a Hunter and Warlocks point of view, you Rogues can all go die in a fire.
It's not even a fun fight for me on my Warlock. On my Hunter I got a chance, but usually not if you manage to disarm me before I can disarm you.

you, my friend, fail badly at this game if you get pwnd so bad by rogues. Like srsly, what chance does a rogue stand vs a affli warlock with 1300 resil, 29k hp, fel armor heal tick, healthstone, sacrifice, soul link, battlemasters, and so on. I'm not trying to say that warlocks have high survability because i don't think that way, but vs a rogue you should have no problem, especially now that wotf was nerfed.

Mobility - I disagree again. They aren't mages, but can cloak out of a lot of slows and sprint is a great movement ability.

You don't have any ideea about this. Hunter for ex can practically PLAY with us.

I feel that rogues are underpowered if I try to compare them, with let's say warriors. So let's compare these 2 classes

Rogues

Damage: Medium-Low(there is no rogue out there except for the ones geared end-game that can say they do the same or at lest NEAR the damage a warrior/fdruid/mage/warlock does)
Mobility: Low(self-explanatory, and everybody who plays a rogue knows it)
Utility: High(now this the only reason I can think of when someone says they rage when they face a rogue in arena)
Survability: Low(i don't find evasion as a good survability cd, it doesen't compare from a mile with detterence/shield wall/etc)
Comps: Now this is a place where rogues almost excel, with, i admit, a LOT of comps from where u can choose from: RLS, RMP, fDRP, rPalaRP, etc. But i still find that in these comps I always get carried by the other dps and i'm there just to cripple the other team(this wasn't the cast in TBC and early WoTLK)

Warrior

Damage: High-Very high(i played disc priest/holy paladin/resto sham there is no way that anybody can contradict me here, they do MASSIVE damage compared to rogues, or any other class except hunters)
Mobility: High-Very high(if you come across a skilled warrior you will see him bouncing back and forth through the arena like crazy, there is no way you can stop him. Fear immune, stun duration reduced, he can even break snares with brostorm)
Utility: Low(yes, i have to admit, they lack cc and buffs for the team)
Survability: Very high(i always joke with my arena partners that all the warriors have THE button. A macro that shield walls shield blocks enraged regenerates spell reflects uses battlemasters etc etc. They basically have A LOT of defensive cooldowns, that are actually effective(not 70% dodge for 15 sec)
Comps: You need damage? You need MS? They are practically the definition of cleave. TSG/RWD/HWD/PPW/DPW/etc etc etc

Try to arena vs a warrior as a rogue and you will agree with me, i can assure you 100%.
And for those of you who say i'm trolling, there is 1 thing that i love about this class. And i'm sure all the rogues will agree on this.
We are the noob-counter. If you don't know how to fake, if you trinket cs, if you turn from your keyboard while we spin around you with sprint and evasion on, you my friend probably have no chance against us, so you don't understand how i could say such nonsense like "dude, we're not godlike even with our cooldowns popped".

[Bowz]

Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.
Please be trolling.

[Lythox]

actually they are, sort of, this coming from a rogue.
yes a rogue but a retired one, i fully rerolled mage and barely play rogue anymore.
With my rogue top rating was 1800 now on my mage im getting over 2300 rating, i think that should say enough about rogues.

rogues dont need damage buffs or buffs in any way to their current design, they need a full redesign. they need more utility after the stunlocks so they have to do LESS damage in stunlocks actually so both parties get equal chances of defending themselves / attacking. mobility sucks sorta as well RELATIVE to other classes like I.E. warrior.

rogues currently sure do a lot of damage, but its basically the only thing they do. People got them in their minds as the king of cc, while they basically are nothing but assisting dps and barely do any cc except for stun every 30 seconds, and open the fight with a sap. after opening its basically dps and survive. (compare openers sap to warlocks / mages spammable sheeps and such and u know what i mean with rogues "not really being KING of cc")

[Kanye]

right now, rogues are insane damage. they have so many tools to escape damage, and even more to output damage. if you die to anything as a rogue, quite frankly you have failed.

Please be trolling.

[Deleted]

rogues underpowered? stunlocking from 100% to zero with craploads of resilience is UNDERPOWERED?!

sometimes i hope 2012 happens when threads like these appear.

[Merlinsback]

Damage - Not only do Rogues have a good damage output, but they can do it while stunlocking the person and keeping the secondary target CC'ed. If the "Low Damage" you're referring to involves them not being able to kill someone within one stunlock anymore, well sorry, but that is not low damage.
Additionally, almost all Rogues have an inherent crippling poison and mortal strike effect which makes their damage that much more potent.
Mobility - I disagree again. They aren't mages, but can cloak out of a lot of slows and sprint is a great movement ability.
Utility - Probably the highest out of any class.
Survivability - If you stand there and don't use any cooldowns, yes, your survivability sucks. However, Evasion, Feint and Cloak of Shadows are some of the best defensive cooldowns out there. Not to mention you are the only class that can wipe everything off you but bleeds (bleeds too if you're a Dwarf) and Vanish and reset the fight.
Comps - I think Rogues are the most versitaile out of any class in terms of comps.


There is a reason everyone hates Rogues in PvP.

So true, 2 weeks ago when I had 2/5 furious, the crafted blue chest and 2 i200 and full deadly accessories I could still wreck a lot of ppl, bg's AND arena... damage is amazing, + utility and stuns and disarm, I could kill somebody before they even hit me..

Cheap shot, mutilate, kidney shot
they trinket
I blind and wait for energy
mut, disarm, mut, envenom
gouge, wait for energy
mut, kidney shot, finish them off

And still have cos, sprint, evasion if needed...

Now that I have wg shoulders, and furious/relentless set, and almost full relentless/wrathful accessories it's just lol

My advice is it's a l2p issue, use what u have... and it's a given u catch a rogue without any cd's it's an easy kill... but that's the sacrifice u take

[Armond]

Enimo seems to be under the impression that Recount matters in PvP.

Hahahahaha.

[K4ge]

So many bullshit storys in this thread. Even with my insane gear (5200+ attack power at almost 900 res and 46% crit) I can't kill any decently geared opponent in a single cs => ks, except maybe mages without blink and block (LOL) or other rogues.

[Armond]

my insane gear (5200+ attack power at almost 900 res and 46% crit)

Fix your sig bro.

[Lythox]

Rogues, underpowered?
Hahahahaha.

Sorry, but from a Hunter and Warlocks point of view, you Rogues can all go die in a fire.
It's not even a fun fight for me on my Warlock. On my Hunter I got a chance, but usually not if you manage to disarm me before I can disarm you.

lol you must be fucking kidding, especially hunter is very underpowered OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

No really if anything, hunters are the most overpowered class of the game and have always been

[K4ge]

Fix your sig bro.

pve gear, sorry

[Arka90]

Rogues are not overpowered. In fact, rogues are one of the few classes right now, I would consider to be fine. Our sustained damage is rather low, our cooldown burst rather high (but nowhere near mage, ele or destruction), our survivability WITH cds is very high, without extremely low.
That is the main problem and the main strength of rogues right now: with cooldowns up and ready they are VERY powerful, without very weak.

This pretty much sums it up. Since you have so many CDs, you can go for quite a bit of PvE gear and still stay alive as long as you have cooldowns left. You almost need PvE gear atm to manage to get a kill in time, before your CDs are down. This makes the problem even worse, since you have so low res because of all the PvE gear and die even more easily once those CDs are down.

Also, yeah, your overall damage is lower than most classes when they're not CCed, quite a bit lower. But in arena you have a lot of tools to lock down an enemy dps (stuns, disarm, kick, crippling poison), which evens out the damage a bit.

I would also say rogues are at a good spot atm, pretty balanced. The reason some of their setups are so good isn't really that rogues are OP, it's their teammates. rls and rps which are two of their top setups are strong because of overpowered heroism, which lasts for about the same duration as rogue's CDs, making them work pretty well together. (Yes, I call heroism OP even though I play with a resto shaman in 3v3 on my warrior.) The damage you can do with heroism is a bit out of control (look at beastcleave, that's a good example).

[Tombstone]

I don't think Rogues are underpowered at all, see it from my perspective.

I play Resto Shaman, PvP.

1.2k Resil, 30k life, 22k Mana.

EShield on, Riptide always ticking, Stoneskin Glyph when it's available with Earthliving if it procs and I still get ripped apart by a rogue because of Wound Poison, if it wasn't for Wound Poison I would survive a lot longer. But they still eat me alive.

[jobdone]

Cheap shot, mutilate, kidney shot
they trinket
I blind and wait for energy
mut, disarm, mut, envenom
gouge, wait for energy
mut, kidney shot, finish them off

And still have cos, sprint, evasion if needed...

Now that I have wg shoulders, and furious/relentless set, and almost full relentless/wrathful accessories it's just lol

My advice is it's a l2p issue, use what u have... and it's a given u catch a rogue without any cd's it's an easy kill... but that's the sacrifice u take

Yes, very much a l2p issue.

[medeak]

ROgue is not underpower


I should know your class

Do envenom you provide a lot of damage and its not hard . Dont blow all your cd in one sec , as you know rogue is really hard class in wow special in arena (You die so fast) just look what your partner do special best for you is play with mage you will get really good skills from it its will be hard for you but try it , if you see that you have low hp shadow cloak if you have dots on you if nor (vanish ) eat and if your partner control enemies with lossing any hp wait for some important cds ))))

Really mage/rogue is really good combo but you should't do misstakes