1. #1

    Subtlety for PvE - A Suggestion

    Hi
    my idea was to improve subtlety to make it viable for pve
    the main problems of the spec are:
    -skills cost too much energy / no energy reg
    -you can use ambush and premdeditaion only through vanish
    -no synergy within the skills

    so here are my ideas for a solution
    for the energy reg:
    add a talent or glyph that adds to the existing effect of ghostly strike a + X% energy reg for the duration of the ghostly strike buff. X may be a value between 10 und 25% dont know how much it should be.
    i think a talent would be better because there is already a "glyph of ghostly strike" and you would not need to drop an other glyph instead.
    in addition you have to put one point in a pvp talent to reach the last tier, so a new 1 point talent would be kind of good.
    a suggestion for the talent tree would be like this:
    http://www.war-tools.com/t67965.html
    sry i didnt add the icons and the descriptions but the important thing is the new structure of the talents.
    as you can see i moved some talents to have space for the improved ghostly strike.
    the problem is that it includes also changes for pvp, but i think even with the new 3.3.3 buffs subtlety needs some buffs in pvp either, so i think it wouldnt be too overpowered.

    the second idea is to add a buff that lets you go in stealth-mode after using shadowstep. the duration would be the same as the existing shadowstep buff which grants you 70% movement speed and 20% moar dmg for the next ability.
    the idea behind is to allow you to use ambush and premed more often.

    now the smart guys will think "rupture with glyph = 20 seconds. shadowstep with talent = 20 sec cd. i'd rather use shadowstep to apply a 20% moar dmg rupture than perform a 20% moar dmg ambush"
    so this is the point. the stealth effect would be pointless because you'd break stealth with rupture without using ambush. it would only allow premed to be used infight but thats not strong enought.
    so here are 2 solutions:
    grant the shadowstep buff a second stack. that would mean that you could use ambush AND rupture with 20% more dmg.

    the start of a rotation would look like this:
    stealth premed ambush ghostly strike (for the energy reg mentioned above) shaodowstep rupture ambush. after that spamming hemorrhage till 5 cp and then finish with whatever. if rupture drops > shadowstep premed ambsuh rupture.

    the second solution is:
    the invisibility gained after using shadowstep is not being broken by using skills. this would be kind of a mini shadowdance.
    a rotation would look like this:
    stealth premed ambush shadowstep rupture ambush (now the shadowstep buff fades because the duration is only 3 seconds) ghostly stirke (for the energy reg mentioned above) hemorrhage spam. if rupture drops > get 3 CPs shaodwstep premed rupture ambush.
    the difference between solution 1 and 2 is that 1 grants you a 20% dmg buff on ambush AND rupture, while 2 only grants you 20% dmg buff on rupture and a normal ambush in fight. i think 2 would be a little bit harder to play because you had to watch if rupture drops and if you finish with for example eviscerate or keep the CPs for the new rupture.
    to make it not to overpowered for pvp it would be good that the stealth mode after shadowstep is like "lesser invisibility" of the warlock's succubus. that would mean that you can be seen easily and it wouldnt be like a vanish with 20 secs cd.
    the question is how to bring the buff into the game.
    could be done through a glyph or through a talent.
    both are possible, but i think a talent would be better. it could be added to an existing talent like "filthy tricks". i didnt thought about rank 1 and 2 of this buff but i think it wouldnt be that hard to create 2 ranks of this.

    sry for my bad english its not my mothertongue and i refuse to use an onine-translator. if something isnt clear or is just wrong pls tell me.
    would be nice to let me know what you think about those buffs or give me some suggestions how to improve them.

  2. #2

    Re: Subtlety for PvE - A Suggestion

    There is a hunter talent that will increase your damage on some abilities if you stand in one spot for a few seconds.
    I believe it's called sniper training.

    Maybe a talent like that could be worked into the subtlety tree and work on (pulling an ability out of the air) backstab. That means the talent would not be beneficial in PvP, only during stunlocks, which isn't all that OP, but very beneficial in fights where you can get some time in the same spot every now and then.

    I had trouble with getting together a view on all of your ideas. I think you should clean up your post a bit.

  3. #3
    Deleted

    Re: Subtlety for PvE - A Suggestion

    Those buffs you mention are way too OP , specially because sub is alrdy being used in pve by alot of rogues - and its viable!

    Subs energy regen is absolutely not far behind mut/combat because of 5/5 RS, and since you do ALOT of finishers (hat..) youre energy is quite fine actually.

  4. #4

    Re: Subtlety for PvE - A Suggestion

    Sry @ Ger9ng i'll try to explain it in a TL,DR-Version

    the first idea: add a talent which grants you X% more energy reg after using ghostly strike (same duration as the exisiting ghostly strike effect)

    the second idea: going stealth after using shadowstep and giving the shadowstep buff 2 charges. the idea behind is that you could use premed infight without popping vanish and it also allows you to use ambush without popping vanish. the idea with the 2 chages of the shadowstep buff is that you generate 5 CP through premed and ambsuh (which also deals 20% more dmg and consumes the first charge) and finish with rupture (which also deals 20% more dmg and consumes the second charge).
    this would lead to a rotation mentioned above.

  5. #5

    Re: Subtlety for PvE - A Suggestion

    I would think that could make it better for PvE, the problem is, would it not be OP in PvP?

  6. #6

    Re: Subtlety for PvE - A Suggestion

    that's what i tried to avoid.
    the stealth after shadowstep should be designed in a way that it can be broken easily, so it wouldnt be a mini version of vanish.
    the energy regeneration i think is fine for pvp because while you have the energy reg-buff up you can easily be feared/rooted/stunned or what ever. but if you have some suggestions to leave pvp unchanged as far as possible let me know

  7. #7

    Re: Subtlety for PvE - A Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by schleimhaut
    Those buffs you mention are way too OP , specially because sub is alrdy being used in pve by alot of rogues - and its viable!

    Subs energy regen is absolutely not far behind mut/combat because of 5/5 RS, and since you do ALOT of finishers (hat..) youre energy is quite fine actually.
    I'm sorry, but Subtlety lags. It just... does. It's not as good as the other specs... even GC's admitted as much now...

    Alas, there will always be hold outs, people who play an underpowered spec- there were balance druids before Moonkin form existed- but the consensus is very much against you. Just because YOU do fine doesn't mean the class/spec as a whole is. Maybe with your level of skill you should be generating considerably higher numbers than you do already. (I was personally rather surprised and delighted by buffs to 'locks, for example, which I was unaware were even in order.)
    That's just between you, me, and my pal Captain Winky.

  8. #8

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