Subversion and Frost spec

[Anandor]

I was running the standard frost dw spec before 3.3.3 was released a few days ago. I'm a fresh DK, only dinged 80 about a week ago, but I love the spec and wanted to play it straight away.
Most of my gear is made up with whatever can be bought with EoT, and anything that cant be bought with EoT is filled in with stuff from the icc instances, also managed to pick up a cheap DC:Greatness. I've changed a few things since then:

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n=Anand%C3%B3r

My gear hasn't changed really since the patch, but only a few days ago I joined a pug for Toc25. At this point I had nothing in blood and 2 points in BCB. Gormok comes out, I give the tanks about 4-5 seconds and then start dpsing, only a few seconds later I completely rip aggro from the tanks and I'm dead.

I'm just wondering, was it me? Or was it just bad tanks? I'm actually scared to take points out of Subversion now, as i say, a dead dps does no dps. But every frost build i see dismisses Subversion and takes BCB so should I do the same?

[Praxis]

The reason most Frost builds don't have Subversion is because, point-for-point, BCB is more DPS. As you said, however, you don't do any damage while dead, so if you constantly have threat issues, feel free to get Subversion. The DPS loss is not gigantic, and the likelihood of you remaining alive is much higher.
The increased DPS of Frost this patch is also why a lot of people are saying the ideal build is 1/52/18, dropping a point from Frost to get 1/3 Subversion. *shrug* If you play with good tanks, it's really a manner of personal preference.

[Vangor]

Or was it just bad tanks

Likely this. 4-5 seconds is enough time for any tank to have established aggro, and if you were after 3.3.3 in ToC25 there is no reason any tank shouldn't have snap aggro provided people weren't spamming buttons a little faster than the 4-5 second lead time. Perhaps the tank missed with the opening attacks or was parried or similar, can happen. Don't worry about Subversion, at all, especially not for removing all points for BCB when using IIT. As well, remove a point from KM probably since you'll be unlikely to lose notable uptime, and this will round out BCB.

To note, the only people I currently have slight concerns about are Warlocks who outgear me, and since the change they have not been able to actually match my threat, just get dangerously close. You are not at a gear level where any initial tank for ToC25 should be unable to keep threat off, but dunno, maybe the raid leader went by most health, gs, etc., and the person sucked.

[mhp]

After a recent VoA25, I'm fairly tempted to spec into subversion, tbh. I don't have a guild at the moment, and PuG tanks are horrible: threat capped in T9 is just bad, terribly bad, and not fun at all :<

[Cheezee]

Just find an IT spamming DK tank and all your threat problems are solved. ;D

[mhp]

Just find an IT spamming DK tank and all your threat problems are solved. ;D

Threat problems, yes. But my retard-o-meter would overflow, and I'd have to:

a) Go over to the DK, hurt him, a lot.

OR

b) Cry.

Neither of which is fun, so.. *sighs*, I'll just hope for better PuG tanks. Or bite the bullet and do it myself - will have fun with DW DPS later on.

[Fatoldguy]

Last night in ICC 10 I died about 6 times because I got aggro, and flat out had to stop doing anything but auto attack alot to not have even more deaths. I know the tanks and while they are not full ICC 25 geared, they were geared enough, and know their class. I had 0 points in subversion, clearly that is going to have to change.

[Praxis]

Last night in ICC 10 I died about 6 times because I got aggro, and flat out had to stop doing anything but auto attack alot to not have even more deaths. I know the tanks and while they are not full ICC 25 geared, they were geared enough, and know their class. I had 0 points in subversion, clearly that is going to have to change.

This is going to happen to a lot of people. :P Frost is the only spec right now (besides the new Unholy fad, 0/17/54) for which Subversion is not mandatory. Now that it does competitive DPS, people are going to begin having a lot more threat problems than before. I was already creeping up on tanks in 3.3.2, I just took a single point in Subversion today to see if it helps a little.

[fishface]

Just find an IT spamming DK tank and all your threat problems are solved. ;D

For some reason my dps always drops when I get a rage-induced stroke.

[Unholyground]

wtb DK threat dump.

[mhp]

wtb DK threat dump.

Shadow of the Dead was annoying, sorry. Do not want!

[Raptorg]

wtb DK threat dump.

Suck less, you won't need it.