Enhance becoming obsolete?

[XemnasXD]

forgot about that survivablity thing...i was doing putricide today and me and a bunch of melee were trying to collapse on the ooze to help spread the aoe damage, not sure if i was at full health or not but i was the only melee who got hit that died...everyone else had about 3-5k left before they got healed up to full...

[Fornaw]

My WF and SoE brings all the boys to the club. I'm like, it's better than yours....

Also I actually play my class quite well. So I beat a lot of other people. I also show up to every raid. Im also all that you just explained packed into 1 raider.

Am I obsolete? No. far from it.

But here's the question, assuming you yourself could play a Frost DK with equal gear for your raid, and also assuming you liked the playstyle just as much, which would your raid rather have? So in other words this:

Honestly with the LOLBUFFSFORDKS there's not much of a reason to bring us any more. That statement is based on a raid with an enhancement shaman and a frost DK of equal gear and skill.
Icy Talons = WF
SoE > Horn (but, and I haven't done the math, the DKs damage probably makes up for it)
DK survivability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaman survivability
Hero/Lust... well find me a raid with an enhancement but no resto or ele.. mirite?

In the end, the player should be brought over the class. I'm personally not worried about my raid spot. However:
FUCK YOU BLIZZARD YOU ARE RETARDED. DON'T MAKE THE CLASS THAT HAS 0 SURVIVABILITY DO LESS DAMAGE THAN THE FUCKING LOLIHAVE40KHPANDADEFENSIVECOOLDOWN DEATH KNIGHT.

That is all. Frost will probably be nerfed.

Except I don't actually think Frost will be nerfed, Frost is fine (I think, not really sure what kind of DPS they are capable of but I hear it's solid), Enhancement is the outlier.

[Feauri]

Blizz created the 25man environment completely redundant.

You dont need to bring a special lineup for different bossfights. Any class can be replaced.

10man is a different story. Here an enhance can bring a lot of buffs in one class.
tremor, cleansing, resistance, interrupt, purge...and the list goes on.

Also the single target dps of enhance is still awesome. The work to get there though is quite hard.

But isnt this the fun in enhance? To not be a faceroll class?

[Zova]

Well, even if our some of our buffs exists with other classes like frostDK, I find that dps frostDK is quite rare. I have yet to see them in raids other than lowdpsers in VoA. I am usually in top 3 dps in my guild, pulling 9-10k on singeltarget and way higher in aoe. Tho my guild is pretty mainstream with i264 content, could change in supertopguilds but I think most would rather take an enchshaman than a frostDK. We fit many roles and have awersome buffs, obsolete? Far from.

Also the ppl keeps falling back to the assumption that all classes has to have a uniqe buff to be granted a raidspot. If another class can do that buff you dont deserve a raidspot at all. That is not true, you will want to fill up all the great buffs but that is possible with a few classes. When all the buffs is ok, then it is about dps and how well you "do your thing", avoiding fires and similar. In 95% of all guild worldwide you own skill matters more than your class limitations.

I have played as Muti-rogue, MM-hunter, SP-priest, Feral-druid but I find my ench shaman the most fun class to play. Feral druid is close but Ench wins.

[kassy]

enha is far from bad as a melee dps, considering hybrids are supposed to be below pure classes, yet enha seems to keep up with rogues and hunters pretty well. just cus you're a bad doesn't mean the spec is bad.

[Nuronv]

Also the single target dps of enhance is still awesome. The work to get there though is quite hard.

But isnt this the fun in enhance? To not be a faceroll class?

/thread

[Barky]

But isnt this the fun in enhance? To not be a faceroll class?

QFT. This is the reason I play enhancement, and like his post said further up, any class can be replaced in a 25 man, but in a 10 man i bring so much that my 10 man guild really feels the pinch when I can't make a raid, both buffing casters and melee depending on totems used.

so to answer your question, no enhancement isn't becoming obsolete at all, the only thing I wish we had is a little more survivability.

[Deleted]

Enhance is nowhere near obsolete. They bring fantastic dps and brilliant buffs. Most end game raiding dks are not frost. Generally they are unholy or blood.
The totem improved is also more powerful then the horn and since the change on unleashed rage, that will constantlly be up as well.
No reason not to take one any more.

[toroza]

My 11k sustained and 14k burst DPS would like to inquire as to why you make these statements?

[jswivel]

enha is far from bad as a melee dps, considering hybrids are supposed to be below pure classes, yet enha seems to keep up with rogues and hunters pretty well. just cus you're a bad doesn't mean the spec is bad.

Because you or some enhance in your guild is keeping up with your rogues and hunters doesn't mean that enhance is doing great, it means your hunters and rogues are doing bad.

[toroza]

Because you or some enhance in your guild is keeping up with your rogues and hunters doesn't mean that enhance is doing great, it means your hunters and rogues are doing bad.

The rogue in my guild was doing 12.5k DPS about 2 minutes into Rotface last night. At the same time, I was doing ~12k as well. So, no. You, sir, are mistaken.

[Omanley]

the one thing in pve-dps i´d like to see fixed for enhance ( and ele as well ) is aoe.

give ele earthquake allready, all it takes is a channelable aoe cast and they are happy.

for enhance, remove magma, remove the requirement for firenova to have a fire totem active and give fire-nova a dot which does the damage magma would have done. change our glyph to give fire nova a 2 sec stun when used ( 30 sec cd ), and raise our fire nova dmg, as well as the dot dmg a little (with glyph i am able to do ~13k dps, which isn´t bad, but other melees, such as dk´s and warriors, easily leave me in the dust).

with that change alone we´d get:

-1 spell leaves the spellbook and actionbar, either making it ( the actionbar ) more assessable or leaving room for a new ability
-we get 2 abilities in one, saving global cooldowns
-we wont have our aoe tied to a totem anymore ( magma itself is a totem, firenova requires one to be active )
and we´ll be super mobile from now on
-we save a bunch of mana because we wont have to reset magma totem anymore
-in 5 or 10mans, in which you´ll be the only shaman/destro lock, you wont have to gimp your dmg anymore by using flametongue instead of magma
-we get a 2 second aoe stun every 30 seconds, which will be nice for all those pvp enhaners/eles who where sad about the fire nova change.
-much better pvp burst, because our aoe isn´t tied to unmovable totems anymore, we can use it whenver we want, and with a 2 second stun we can get through a cast as ele ( which would otherwise be interrupted )or some hits as enh ( which would be dodged or something ( hunter/rogue/ferals, evasion, etc ))

[Arganaut]

"First, this is not a QQ post, well it is kinda, but not really"

Yes it is. Biggest QQ ever.

99% of the worlds guilds couldn't give a crap or even notice if Enhance was underforming and even than it's open to debate. Enhance is rocking in our guild and the advantages to other melee, including my thankful Retri Paladin, is immense.

Go go Enhance, we love you.

[ulubproness]

enh is anything but obsolete its just alot more challenging to milk the kind of dps we can do out of it,im currently at a 5.2k gs on my shammy and havent played him in a while but i have no problem hitting 7.2k dps in 25 mans and with even better gear im sure i can break 10k.. are we competitive dps against equally geared mages and rogues... no but were not supposed to be ,we have and always will be a support/buff class so we will always take a hit to our overall dps

[Oneleg]

In most decent pugs that I run I am either #1 or #2 for overall damage done. Hell I ran VoA on tuesday and broke 9k putting me at #1, that was fun. I am very much wanted by my guild for our 10 man, because I can DPS like mad and also switch to healing if needed.

The frost DK that will replace a GOOD enhance shaman is just as rare as that GOOD enhance shaman.

[Bloodcharged]

Of course Enhancement is obsolete...if you don't know how to play it! Same as any other class, a well played player of any class/spec is better then some idiot who doesn't know how to play a rogue for instance.

[Fornaw]

Of course Enhancement is obsolete...if you don't know how to play it! Same as any other class, a well played player of any class/spec is better then some idiot who doesn't know how to play a rogue for instance.

I'm not sure if people are understanding the point of this thread. A good player is never obsolete, so saying "I'm not obsolete because I'm a good player" means nothing. At the same time the rogue sub tree has been obsolete this entire expansion, that's the sort of comparison the OP is trying to make. The biggest upside that I can still see with enhancement is the "lots of buffs in 1 slot" argument which makes us good in 10s. In 25s we were wanted mostly for Windfury because Frost was behind. If tomorrow Blizzard destroyed the Marks tree the spec would probably become valuable again because getting multiple good DKs in a raid ain't always easy. In high end and hardmodes Enh is way too squishy, if you are raiding that kind of content you would generally much prefer having a frost DK because DKs in every spec are some of the hardest kills in PvE. There are guilds who have good DKs ready to spec Frost for TLK hardmode attempts, those guilds will sit their Enh Shaman.

[Nerag]

it has to do with playstyle, if you're good at it, you won't feel obsolete, however... if you suck of course you will feel that way, last night we were trying loads of new ppl on the 25 man group, on saurfang I ended up 4th behind on a destro lock mut rogue and unholy dk, only the destro lock made a big difference, and the difference in gear with the mut rogue and unholy dk is big... it was only 30k dmg between them and me. I play because I love the challenge, not being a faceroll class is the key

[eeva]

A good enhancement is hard to find I think. It is easily the most difficult class to play very well I have played. At least out of healers, Prot Pally, Shadow Priest, and Rogue.


If you are really good or even just good, you will always get a spot to the point of it feeling like a curse at times. You probably will never be able to volunteer to sit out when the RL says "I need 1 dps out".... I know I am not usually top dps or anything, and I have never been let out haha.

[Grendelstein]

I don't think we're obsolete. In my old guild on 10 mans the only person who was beating me was a better geared mutilate rogue on almost all fights. Sure, some fights are not great for melee like Putricide. But we bring a lot of buffs/skills to any raid group, especially in 10s where we can tailor our totem drops for maximum raid benefit, even switching them out during fights to help maximize raid performance. As someone else noted, I did well over 9k dps in a PUG VoA and led the damage meter.

Besides, enhance is super fun to play!!!