1. #1

    t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    I am hoping to hear people's opinions about how much of a compromise it is to use the same t10 gear pieces for both cat and bear. I have 120 frost burning a hole in my pocket, and am looking to take my first steps into the raiding world, so I am thinking to work towards chest/legs/shoulders/gloves (I imagine head piece is most important to have specific to the role because of meta gems). I have no plans to be a cutting edge raider, but I do want to be able to pull my weight and fulfill my responsibilities successfully for a casual raiding guild.

    I would love to hear advice on the best way to gem and enchant these pieces also.

  2. #2

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    without any backup information, i'd say pick up tanking jewelery/trinkets/weapon. Keep your t10 as close to agi and agi/crit and agi/stam as you can.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by Malmmoc
    I am hoping to hear people's opinions about how much of a compromise it is to use the same t10 gear pieces for both cat and bear. I have 120 frost burning a hole in my pocket, and am looking to take my first steps into the raiding world, so I am thinking to work towards chest/legs/shoulders/gloves (I imagine head piece is most important to have specific to the role because of meta gems). I have no plans to be a cutting edge raider, but I do want to be able to pull my weight and fulfill my responsibilities successfully for a casual raiding guild.

    I would love to hear advice on the best way to gem and enchant these pieces also.
    It's too big a compromise to be viable, simple as that.

    While gemming straight agility used to work in Naxx/Ulduar normal modes, now it's impossible.
    Going for an agility gemming would destroy your tanking capability in ICC and practically all ToC.
    Going for an agility/stamina, or straight stamina, gemming set would destroy your dps.

    Pick one of the two roles, tank or dps. T10 goes for that role, pure and straight. The offspec takes the leftovers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  4. #4

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Im might get flamed for saying this

    But as a feral myself im using a hybrid spec wich is capeable of tanking and dps (mostly dps)

    when im needing to offtank stuff, i useally use this spec, and go with 4x T10. However, i dont have a 8 pieces of T10, but i do have 5 peices. The peices i change around are:

    Legs: Crafted(264-arp), and T10(264-stam)
    Chest: T10(264-arp), ToC25(245-stam)
    Head: T10(264-arp), T9(245-stam)
    Hands: T10(264-arp and 251stam)
    Shoulder: T10(251-arp), ICC(264-stam)

    When maintanking, its all stam gear
    When trash tanking and OT'ing im going to make sure i got 4xT10 bonus. Wich is useally Chest, head, legs and gloves even tho chest and head is socketed with arp and using a dps metagem, im still able to pull out fairly large numbers since 4x T10 is godly for dps'ing and im only loosing around 2k HP. Its also helping you are lot on trashtanking becos you ger more threat from the dps metagem, and the extra arp.
    Also 4x T10 tank bonus is pretty dam good. So even with some loss of stam, it will give you an extra CD

    Long story short. When trashtanking or OT'ing. Im changing chest and head to dps oriented T10.

  5. #5

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by Arel
    It's too big a compromise to be viable, simple as that.
    gemming provides around + 40dps using agil/arp per slot, there are 7 slots in 5t10, if you gem agil/stam or arp/stam you are losing 7 x40 = 280dps/2 - =140 dps

    gemming is not a big deal, really, but enchanting -legs/head/pants/shoulders- is the problem...and the metagem, of course

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokomala
    gemming provides around + 40dps using agil/arp per slot, there are 7 slots in 5t10, if you gem agil/stam or arp/stam you are losing 7 x40 = 280dps/2 - =140 dps

    gemming is not a big deal, really, but enchanting -legs/head/pants/shoulders- is the problem...and the metagem, of course
    If you think changing gems has such a little impact on your DPS, think again.
    Especially in a world where having 100 more or less ArP can make or break a whole gearset.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  7. #7

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by Arel
    If you think changing gems has such a little impact on your DPS, think again.
    Especially in a world where having 100 more or less ArP can make or break a whole gearset.
    ArP hard cap is an all or nothing type deal, soft cap has a LOT of flexibility.

    You have the idea, aim for extra set of head/legs eventually(shoulder enchant isn't as huge).

    You can easily AGI your tier gear, stam//ArP the rest of your non teir slots as your gear requires for bear//cat spec.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    ...and you'll be sub-par for both roles.

    Don't get me wrong, personally I like the idea and I used to do that a lot. But not it's simply not possible without horribly gimping your stats.
    Talents can be shared, most hybrid tank/dps build work. But not gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  9. #9

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    read his post, casual raiding.

    I tanked most of regular ICC10 in full cat gear with 3-5 tank items thrown in for HP, casual he wont be hitting heroic versions.

    Icks sack + 4pc t10 for tank, eventually work towards having a second helm, legs then shoulders.
    frigid noose chest with cloak from marrowgar for dps set.

  10. #10

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    I pretty much have the same issue on my Druid. I endedup doing softcap for arpen, gemming the rest agility. I cat dps if I'm ever feral and can tank heroics and had to live with that compromise. Just can't work for raiding both ways.

  11. #11

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by Arel
    If you think changing gems has such a little impact on your DPS, think again.
    Especially in a world where having 100 more or less ArP can make or break a whole gearset.
    I said nothing about arp, as obviously if you are going for a hybrid set, you are not going full pen.

    70 agil is a drop in the bucket when you have over 2000...call it 4% loss

    the main problem will be the enchants and meta

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokomala
    I said nothing about arp, as obviously if you are going for a hybrid set, you are not going full pen.

    70 agil is a drop in the bucket when you have over 2000...call it 4% loss

    the main problem will be the enchants and meta
    70 agility provides the same amount of crit and AP if you gain them when having 100 agility total or if you gain them when having 10000 agility. as far as I'm concerned, offensive stats like crit and AP don't diminish. a 100 dps gain is a 100 dps gain. period. If you stop caring about gems as the quality of your gear rises, you are doing it wrong.

    but ... lets make that calculation.

    the "important" things you said are helm, shoulder, legs + meta.

    these are:
    40 ap + 15 crit
    75 ap + 22 crit
    50 ap + 20 crit
    ---------------
    165 ap + 57 crit (=1.254%)
    +21 agility.


    those 165 ap would be ~127 agility needed to obtain. those 127 agility on the other side would be 1.8% crit. so to balance the AP and crit to a rough number of agility I think we could say, 109 agility is a nice number. add the meta, we are at 130 agility + that 3% critbonus out of the enchants + that meta. BUT the tanking enchant for legs also provides 22 agility, so it's 108 agility difference as well.

    now we have in average: head 1, shoulders 2, chest 2-3, bracers 1, gloves 1, legs 2, boots 2, rings 2x1, weapon 1-2 as available sockets, equalling 14-16 sockets available in our gear. now we use everywhere 10agi15stam instead of pure 30stam gems because we want that hybrid gear - considering you'd need one 10agi15stam gem in full stam gear anyways, we have 13-15 10agi15stamgems. considering we WOULD want to use 20 agility instead - which is not possible if we want to tank icc (at least non-heroic) - this is a loss of 13-15 times 10 agility. we are again at that 130 agility we now from that calculation of the "value" of the enchants.

    now basically gemming pure agility vs gemming shiftings is a difference of 130-150 agility, while the enchants + meta makes a difference of 108 agility + that 3% crit bonus from meta.
    Even if I'm way off with my calculation and the enchants would equal out to 250 agility ... it'd be still "only" double the value than the difference of the gems.


    how can you even dare to argue, gems don't make a real difference, but the enchants do? this is really stupid ...

  13. #13

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    I'm personally working on my 2nd set of T10 for bear now that my cat set is all but finished. Anyhow, I'm currently using 2 pieces of cat T10 and 2 pieces of bear T10 with very good results.

    Helm & Legs are gemmed & enchanted for bear

    Shoulders & gloves are setup for cat. Arp gems, agility enchant on gloves, Ap/Crit enchant on shoulders

    No complaints so far.

  14. #14

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Disregard posts saying that sharing t10 is unviable.

    You are thinking correctly, headpiece shouldn't be shared, it's hundreds of dps loss. All others can be used successfully, but the key rule is tank survivability > kitty dps.

    Shoulders - Shifting Dreadstone and PvP enchant (small dps decrease)
    Hands - same gem, agility enchant (virtually no dps decrease).
    Legs - 2xStamina, tank enchant.
    Chest - bears don't use this piece thus no dilemma.
    // Total dps loss should be about 2% at most.

    For bear, the decision is easy - 264 ship chest, the rest 4xt10. For cat you must change the headpiece, so either get tier chest and offtier head from raiding, or buy second t10 head and aim for offtier chest/hands.

  15. #15

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Lol the real challenge is Cat and Bear are supposed to be separate. You can get some carry over, but looking at this from the standpoint of a paladin main, if I want a ret set, I have to get a second set of T10. In the long run if you want to be the BEST at tanking and dps, you need 2 sets with the correct gems and enchants.

    Im sure in the case of a cat/bear you can blur a little, but yur choice of content will be key. If you want to keep pugging the first wing, it doenst matter. If you want to see Arthas loot...

  16. #16

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by OMB
    Disregard posts saying that sharing t10 is unviable.

    You are thinking correctly, headpiece shouldn't be shared, it's hundreds of dps loss. All others can be used successfully, but the key rule is tank survivability > kitty dps.

    Shoulders - Shifting Dreadstone and PvP enchant (small dps decrease)
    Hands - same gem, agility enchant (virtually no dps decrease).
    Legs - 2xStamina, tank enchant.
    Chest - bears don't use this piece thus no dilemma.
    // Total dps loss should be about 2% at most.

    For bear, the decision is easy - 264 ship chest, the rest 4xt10. For cat you must change the headpiece, so either get tier chest and offtier head from raiding, or buy second t10 head and aim for offtier chest/hands.
    This is good advice.

    Also if you're raiding 10s with a hybrid spec and 4pc t10 (as I am), there are a number of fights where you can put it to really good use. Festergut, PP, and Sindragosa are all bosses where hybrids really shine. Especially Fester.

    But as OMB says, tank survivability > kitty dps.

  17. #17

    Re: t10 Pieces shared between cat & bear

    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria
    now basically gemming pure agility vs gemming shiftings is a difference of 130-150 agility, while the enchants + meta makes a difference of 108 agility + that 3% crit bonus from meta.
    the gemming difference is 70 agility, as you are gemming agil/stam in those 7 gem slots

    7x20=140agil - 7x10=70agil, just to be clear, lol



    108 agility + that 3% crit bonus from meta > 70 agility...

    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria
    this is really stupid ...
    there you go

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