[ENH] Black Magic Viable in 3.3.3?

[Feiht]

I was playing around with Rawr and Enhsim trying to optimize my priority and gear and out of boredom i decided to see what numbers BM would pull up and i was surprised to note that with my set up it was consistently indicating an approximate 10dps (minor i know) increase over dual Berserking.

### Saved by v1.9.8.1 of EnhSimGUI

config_version         1.9.8.1
simulation_time         5000
simulation_time_combatlog    300
combat_length          7.00
report_count          80
threads             1
combat_length_rng_factor    0.35
min_lag             250
max_lag             350
simulate_mana          1
cast_sr_on_cooldown       1

ep_precision          2
ep_base_stat          ap
ep_ap              80
ep_crit_rating         40
ep_hit_rating          40
ep_expertise          4
ep_haste_rating         40
ep_armor_penetration_rating   40
ep_spellpower          46
ep_dps             7.5
ep_mana             600
ep_spirit            40
ep_mp5             40

mh_auto_attack         1
oh_auto_attack         1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd       0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd    0
use_bloodlust          1
always_bloodlust_wolves     0
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets  0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left    15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left  4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active   1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left    0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left  3
cast_magma_only_if_ticks_left  1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left    1250
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left  1250
necrotic_touch         1
necrotic_touch_heroic      0

rotation_priority_count     12
rotation_priority1       SW
rotation_priority2       FE
rotation_priority3       SR
rotation_priority4       MW5_LB
rotation_priority5       SS_0
rotation_priority6       FS
rotation_priority7       ES
rotation_priority8       SS
rotation_priority9       MT
rotation_priority10       LS
rotation_priority11       FN
rotation_priority12       LL

aoe_rotation_priority_count   12
aoe_rotation_priority1     SW
aoe_rotation_priority2     SR
aoe_rotation_priority3     SS_0
aoe_rotation_priority4     MW5_LB
aoe_rotation_priority5     LS
aoe_rotation_priority6     FE
aoe_rotation_priority7     MT
aoe_rotation_priority8     FS
aoe_rotation_priority9     ES
aoe_rotation_priority10     SS
aoe_rotation_priority11     FN
aoe_rotation_priority12     LL

fight_name           standard_single_target
miss              8.00
dodge              6.50
glancing            24.00
armor              10643
spell_miss           17.00
nature_resistance        0
fire_resistance         0
frost_resistance        0
arcane_resistance        0
shadow_resistance        0

additional_targets       0
additional_target_percent    0.00
additional_target_level     80

armor_debuff_major       20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor       5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff  4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff        20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff     5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat     687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier  0/99.7
spell_haste_buff        5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff     5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff    5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff       13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff         280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff     3.0/3.0
haste_buff           3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase   3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff       3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier         10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff          51/51
agi_and_strength_buff      178/178
intellect_buff         60/60

replenishment          1
water_shield          0
mana_spring_totem        0
blessing_of_wisdom       1
judgement_of_wisdom       1
mixology            0

flask_elixir          flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir         -
potion             potion_of_speed
food              fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon     ###
###############################################################################

race              draenei
mh_speed            2.6
oh_speed            2.6
mh_dps             226.5
oh_dps             205.6
mh_crit             50.61
oh_crit             50.61
mh_hit             11.53
oh_hit             11.53
mh_expertise_rating       140
oh_expertise_rating       140
ap               5020
melee_haste           25.69
armor_penetration        10.22
str               141
agi               1584
int               752
spi               165
spellpower           1506
spell_crit           35.40
spell_hit            14.41
spell_haste           19.76
max_mana            15396
mp5               0

mh_imbue            windfury
oh_imbue            flametongue

mh_enchant           berserking
oh_enchant           berserking

mh_weapon            black_bruise
oh_weapon            axe

trinket1            herkuml_war_token
trinket2            whispering_fanged_skull

totem              bizuris_totem_of_shattered_ice

set_bonus1           t10_battlegear_4
set_bonus2           -
set_bonus3           -

metagem             relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant         -
cloak_enchant          -
ring_proc            ashen_verdict

glyph_major1          feral_spirit
glyph_major2          stormstrike
glyph_major3          Flame_Shock

glyph_minor1          -
glyph_minor2          -
glyph_minor3          -

ancestral_knowledge       3/5
improved_shields        3/3
mental_dexterity        3/3
shamanistic_focus        0/1
flurry             5/5
elemental_weapons        3/3
unleashed_rage         3/3
weapon_mastery         3/3
dual_wield_specialization    3/3
mental_quickness        3/3
improved_stormstrike      0/2
static_shock          3/3
maelstrom_weapon        5/5

convection           0/5
concussion           5/5
call_of_flame          3/3
elemental_devastation      3/3
reverberation          0/5
elemental_focus         0/1
elemental_fury         5/5
improved_fire_nova       2/2
call_of_thunder         0/1
unrelenting_storm        0/3
elemental_precision       0/3
lightning_mastery        0/5
elemental_oath         0/2
lightning_overload       0/5
lava_flows           0/3
storm_earth_and_fire      0/3
shamanism            0/5

Using this Config File and ONLY changing the OH weapon Enchant i came up with the following set of numbers:


Berserking/Berserking

EnhSim version 1.9.8.1

................................................................................


MH:
miss        1259964    8.49%
dodge        0       0.00%
glancing      3562713    24.00%
hit         109010     0.73%
crit        9912445    66.78%
average ap     9160.29
clip        0       0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits     13.81%
procs/swings    12.77%
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         1280674    30.05%
crit        2980820    69.95%
average ap     9159.41

MH Storsmtrike:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         555159     30.05%
crit        1292321    69.95%
average ap     9128.76

OH:
miss        1258777    8.48%
dodge        0       0.00%
glancing      3562580    24.00%
hit         109035     0.73%
crit        9913740    66.79%
average ap     9157.63
clip        0       0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         8538223    50.39%
crit        8406487    49.61%
average sp     3346.18

OH Stormstrike:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         555340     30.06%
crit        1292140    69.94%
average ap     9178.07

Earth Shock:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         576656     50.40%
crit        567544     49.60%
average sp     3337.70

Flame Shock:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         572665     50.30%
crit        565780     49.70%
average sp     3339.16
dots hit      3375577    50.34%
dots crit      3329978    49.66%
average dot sp   3339.22

Lava Lash:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         452755     29.95%
crit        1059120    70.05%
average ap     9114.06

Lightning Bolt:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         1389041    50.39%
crit        1367408    49.61%
average sp     3374.64

Fire Nova:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         934526     50.36%
crit        921285     49.64%
average sp     3338.19

Lightning Shield:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         2529311    100.00%
crit        0       0.00%
average sp     3358.55

Spirit Wolves:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
glancing      1955620    24.02%
hit         5251442    64.50%
crit        934906     11.48%
average ap     9194.37

Magma Totem:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         2957761    50.36%
crit        2915427    49.64%
average sp     3344.58

Fire Elemental Melee:
miss        109728     7.99%
dodge        58172     4.24%
glancing      329328     23.99%
hit         834455     60.79%
crit        40957     2.98%

Fire Elemental Fire Shield:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         1562560    92.01%
crit        135630     7.99%

Fire Elemental Fire Nova:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         631278     91.98%
crit        55042     8.02%

Fire Elemental Fire Blast:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         651017     91.98%
crit        56751     8.02%

Fire Elemental stats:
average ap     9171.86
average sp     3350.96
MPS         65.55
MPCooldown     7866.00
Out of mana time  0.00%
MRPCooldown     2821.60
MRPS        23.62

Fire Elemental   MRPS without overregen
mana regen     3.31   14.07%
judgement of wisdom 20.20   85.93%


Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM         52.90
efficiency     86.84%

flurry uptime         97.65%
unleashed rage uptime     100.00%
elemental devastation uptime  91.72%
mh enchant uptime       51.28%
oh enchant uptime       46.30%
stormstrike debuff uptime   86.02%
flame shock uptime       80.11%
lightning shield uptime    97.42%
magma totem uptime       67.33%
fire elemental uptime     28.60%

trinket2 uptime        32.64%
totem uptime          99.98%
ring proc uptime        16.57%
necrotic touch uptime     49.26%


Set bonus uptimes:
Frost Witch's Battlegear 2 piece    25.99%
Frost Witch's Battlegear 4 piece    21.70%

          MRPS without overregen
mana regen     0.00   0.00%
mp5         16.89   5.05%
replenishment    42.79   12.79%
unrelenting storm  0.00   0.00%
judgement of wisdom 97.42   29.13%
shamanistic rage  177.36  53.03%
mana potion     0.00   0.00%
misc        0.00   0.00%
stormstrike     0.00   0.00%

          DPS         PPM    MPS
white        3614.83  33.49%  98.96
windfury      1205.77  11.17%  7.10
flametongue     862.46  7.99%   56.48
stormstrike     504.69  4.68%   6.16   33.93   9.80%
lava lash      288.01  2.67%   5.04   13.88   4.01%
magma totem     475.57  4.41%   2.16   40.12   11.59%
earth shock     329.43  3.05%   3.81   47.28   13.66%
flame shock     612.35  5.67%   3.79   44.43   12.83%
lightning bolt   1154.24  10.69%  9.19   67.32   19.44%
fire nova      386.01  3.58%   6.19   93.73   27.07%
lightning shield  300.75  2.79%   1.40   0.00   0.00%
necrotic touch   258.95  2.4%   62.16
spirit wolves    358.99  3.33%   0.40   3.27   0.95%
fire elemental   441.61  4.09%   0.14   2.26   0.65%
 melee       244.98  55.47%  4.58
 fire shield    15.76   3.57%   5.66
 fire nova     115.96  26.26%  2.29
 fire blast    64.91   14.7%   2.36

DPS         10793.66
MPS         346.23
MP2min       41547.36
MRPS        453.80
Out of mana time  0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 33.06s
simulation speed: 544431x

Berserking/Black Magic

EnhSim version 1.9.8.1

................................................................................


MH:
miss        1287846    8.49%
dodge        0       0.00%
glancing      3639620    23.99%
hit         110332     0.73%
crit        10136745    66.80%
average ap     8951.15
clip        0       0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits     13.80%
procs/swings    12.75%
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         1305154    30.04%
crit        3038952    69.96%
average ap     8954.17

MH Storsmtrike:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         557690     30.05%
crit        1298396    69.95%
average ap     8927.42

OH:
miss        1285666    8.47%
dodge        0       0.00%
glancing      3640419    23.99%
hit         109490     0.72%
crit        10138966    66.82%
average ap     8972.18
clip        0       0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         8697223    50.39%
crit        8561638    49.61%
average sp     3289.79

OH Stormstrike:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         557422     30.03%
crit        1298664    69.97%
average ap     8978.66

Earth Shock:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         572400     50.36%
crit        564161     49.64%
average sp     3276.36

Flame Shock:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         575341     50.31%
crit        568266     49.69%
average sp     3277.63
dots hit      3391621    50.33%
dots crit      3347208    49.67%
average dot sp   3277.73

Lava Lash:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
hit         452645     29.90%
crit        1061255    70.10%
average ap     8915.76

Lightning Bolt:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         1413302    50.40%
crit        1390731    49.60%
average sp     3312.45

Fire Nova:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         938584     50.40%
crit        923745     49.60%
average sp     3276.95

Lightning Shield:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         2574943    100.00%
crit        0       0.00%
average sp     3297.43

Spirit Wolves:
miss        0       0.00%
dodge        0       0.00%
glancing      1958238    24.04%
hit         5250912    64.45%
crit        937518     11.51%
average ap     8982.67

Magma Totem:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         2953037    50.37%
crit        2909112    49.63%
average sp     3284.47

Fire Elemental Melee:
miss        110307     8.03%
dodge        58415     4.25%
glancing      329057     23.96%
hit         834121     60.74%
crit        41330     3.01%

Fire Elemental Fire Shield:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         1562899    92.00%
crit        135861     8.00%

Fire Elemental Fire Nova:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         631770     92.01%
crit        54845     7.99%

Fire Elemental Fire Blast:
miss        0       0.00%
hit         651439     91.98%
crit        56796     8.02%

Fire Elemental stats:
average ap     8969.10
average sp     3290.13
MPS         65.56
MPCooldown     7866.95
Out of mana time  0.00%
MRPCooldown     2819.27
MRPS        23.60

Fire Elemental   MRPS without overregen
mana regen     3.31   14.08%
judgement of wisdom 20.19   85.92%


Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM         53.93
efficiency     86.66%

flurry uptime         98.39%
unleashed rage uptime     100.00%
elemental devastation uptime  91.86%
mh enchant uptime       52.03%
oh enchant uptime       27.24%
stormstrike debuff uptime   85.76%
flame shock uptime       79.22%
lightning shield uptime    97.41%
magma totem uptime       67.21%
fire elemental uptime     28.61%

trinket2 uptime        32.55%
totem uptime          99.98%
ring proc uptime        16.52%
necrotic touch uptime     49.91%


Set bonus uptimes:
Frost Witch's Battlegear 2 piece    26.00%
Frost Witch's Battlegear 4 piece    21.99%

          MRPS without overregen
mana regen     0.00   0.00%
mp5         16.91   5.04%
replenishment    42.84   12.75%
unrelenting storm  0.00   0.00%
judgement of wisdom 99.17   29.53%
shamanistic rage  176.95  52.68%
mana potion     0.00   0.00%
misc        0.00   0.00%
stormstrike     0.00   0.00%

          DPS         PPM    MPS
white        3642.75  33.71%  101.16
windfury      1213.01  11.22%  7.24
flametongue     868.85  8.04%   57.53
stormstrike     499.62  4.62%   6.19   34.09   9.80%
lava lash      284.32  2.63%   5.05   13.90   4.00%
magma totem     470.59  4.35%   2.15   40.02   11.51%
earth shock     323.66  2.99%   3.79   46.97   13.51%
flame shock     607.63  5.62%   3.81   44.63   12.84%
lightning bolt   1157.05  10.71%  9.35   68.48   19.70%
fire nova      384.25  3.56%   6.21   94.06   27.05%
lightning shield  302.08  2.8%   1.42   0.00   0.00%
necrotic touch   263.58  2.44%   64.35
spirit wolves    354.24  3.28%   0.40   3.27   0.94%
fire elemental   435.18  4.03%   0.14   2.27   0.65%
 melee       240.44  55.25%  4.58
 fire shield    15.67   3.6%   5.66
 fire nova     114.67  26.35%  2.29
 fire blast    64.41   14.8%   2.36

DPS         10806.82
MPS         347.68
MP2min       41721.71
MRPS        451.42
Out of mana time  0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 34.05s
simulation speed: 528696x

As you can see its not a significant increase, but it is an increase none the less. Only reason that i can see is the FS changes.

Any thoughts on this?

<Note> In case you were wondering these sims were run with my current gear with the exception of my belt which was replaced with the Badge Belt and some minor regemming.

[Evilgopher]

Just simmed this for me in my gear and got... (sorry too lazy to actually post config codes and crap)

11480.41 with berserking/berserking

11445.29 with berserking/black magic

Looking at your spell priority, you have SS_0 above MWx5 LB and Fire Nova above Lava Lash which puts more emphasis on your spellpower when it comes to your LB's and Fire Nova. In reality, you should probably be using this rotation shamelessly copied from EJ...

1) Maelstrom Weapon x 5 stacks - Lightning Bolt
2) Lightning Shield if not active
3) Spirit Wolves
4) Shamanistic Rage
5) Flame Shock
6) Stormstrike if debuff not active
7) Fire Elemental
8) Magma Totem if not active
9) Earthshock
10) Stormstrike
11) Lava Lash
12) Fire Nova
13) Magma Totem
14) Lightning Shield

If I was you, id change your priority set-up, re-sim and see how things will turn up this time. If zerk/BM still comes out on top then i guess its your call but I'd still stick with zerk/zerk as its been the tried and true best enchants for enh currently.

[Cactrot]

Just simmed this for me in my gear and got... (sorry too lazy to actually post config codes and crap)

11480.41 with berserking/berserking

11445.29 with berserking/black magic

Looking at your spell priority, you have SS_0 above MWx5 LB and Fire Nova above Lava Lash which puts more emphasis on your spellpower when it comes to your LB's and Fire Nova. In reality, you should probably be using this rotation shamelessly copied from EJ...

1) Maelstrom Weapon x 5 stacks - Lightning Bolt
2) Lightning Shield if not active
3) Spirit Wolves
4) Shamanistic Rage
5) Flame Shock
6) Stormstrike if debuff not active
7) Fire Elemental
8) Magma Totem if not active
9) Earthshock
10) Stormstrike
11) Lava Lash
12) Fire Nova
13) Magma Totem
14) Lightning Shield

If I was you, id change your priority set-up, re-sim and see how things will turn up this time. If zerk/BM still comes out on top then i guess its your call but I'd still stick with zerk/zerk as its been the tried and true best enchants for enh currently.

Great post minus one thing. 3.3.3 hasn't been out long enough for ANYTHING to be tried and true. It also implies "this is the way things are, so that's the way they will be." That attitude is very resistant to change and prone to issues. Reminds me of when BC came out and I was constantly on blast on my hunter for being BM. Constantly told how much it sucked while I outdamaged people every other hunter I came accross. Then people started realizing how awesome serpents swiftness was... Anyway, the point of that story is that just because something was the best(or worst) before, doesn't mean it still is.

[Feiht]

As i said i was playing around with my priorities in an effort to optimize it for my gear. I hate just "Copying" priorities and using them because while they may be best for someone else, that in no way means that it will be best for me.

Thats what the sims are for, to play around with it and see what comes out on top.

Having said that, i did load the list you provided and after some minor adjustments it did give an approximate 30dps increase, also with that priority set up there is still a 10 dps difference, however its reversed with double berserking back up on top.

However, as Cactrot stated, just because something is "tried and true" does not mean it is best, and thats where both Simming and these forums come in. And it was the point of this thread in the first place.

While trying to see what i could do to increase my dps by changing my controllable variables i came across a possibility, so after testing it i presented it to see what others would come up with. In this case, for the time being Double berserking is still on top. Will this change in the future? Who knows, only way we will ever find out is to continue simming possibilities and discussing it.

[kudzupo]

At your gear level, berserking "should" come out on top.

However, just looking, you do have fairly low haste for your gear level. Most people with some i277 and most i264 are sitting around ~800 or more. This is interesting, because both for my gear and the BiS gear, when you lower haste down to ~650, black magic is much much closer to berserking (~5-10 dps difference, versus the ~25-40 depending on gear at higher haste). This is different than prior to 3.3.3 where if you had >5% haste (i.e. a very low amount) berserking was the clear winner.

I guess it all comes down to: http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-shaman/cake-or-pie/

[LagginLikAChamp]

Simple question, looking for a simple answer. BM/BM?

[Nikoll]

Simple question, looking for a simple answer. BM/BM?

you cant get a double stack of bm, so that is never a viable option.

[Juggernautt]

this just in, paragon theroycrafted a dead lich king kill. They're theory crafted made a kill happen, cause clearly skill didn't kill the lich king amirite?

[Nikoll]

this just in, paragon theroycrafted a dead lich king kill. They're theory crafted made a kill happen, cause clearly skill didn't kill the lich king amirite?

they simmed it too. gotta sim it first.

sorry for feeding the troll, but i couldnt help myself.

[cubby]

they simmed it too. gotta sim it first.

i lol'd

[Evilgopher]

Great post minus one thing. 3.3.3 hasn't been out long enough for ANYTHING to be tried and true. It also implies "this is the way things are, so that's the way they will be." That attitude is very resistant to change and prone to issues. Reminds me of when BC came out and I was constantly on blast on my hunter for being BM. Constantly told how much it sucked while I outdamaged people every other hunter I came accross. Then people started realizing how awesome serpents swiftness was... Anyway, the point of that story is that just because something was the best(or worst) before, doesn't mean it still is.

I suggested using the sim which has been updated for 3.3.3 and trying it out with his gear/spec/(different rotation) first. Then suggested only changing to zerk/zerk if it came out on top and he decided to, and LASTLY suggested that if nothing else gives a conclusive answer to go with what has, for the most part, always been the best enchants. This is not an "attitude" I have (AP was "tried and true" for a long time, look whos gemming haste now . Its merely a suggestion to stick with what has been the best until something else is proved to be better.

You're not telling people to not use whats been the best choices without first proving that something else is better are you?

[SolSphere]

Great post minus one thing. 3.3.3 hasn't been out long enough for ANYTHING to be tried and true. It also implies "this is the way things are, so that's the way they will be." That attitude is very resistant to change and prone to issues. Reminds me of when BC came out and I was constantly on blast on my hunter for being BM. Constantly told how much it sucked while I outdamaged people every other hunter I came accross. Then people started realizing how awesome serpents swiftness was... Anyway, the point of that story is that just because something was the best(or worst) before, doesn't mean it still is.

I don't think 3.3.3 is the deciding factor in what "tried and true" means. 3.3.3 didn't change a whole lot of things for us. One of our abilities is now more affected by haste. Great. But atk also affects that ability. As well as a plethora of other abilities. So does haste. So yes there is a possiblity that BM could come out on top, but through patch after patch after patch (I think you get the idea), of minor changes BM has been brough up in each of them. Most of the time with no supported evidence, just some guy/gal who seems to like the idea of having an enchant on their weapon with the name Black Magic I assume because it sounds cool or something. However in each patch (this one included), it has been crushed by zerk/zerk.

My comments are a bit one sided. And it probably falls into your argument about BM spec, but I'm pretty sick of hearing about this enchant in this manor. Research it and do some math before you come to the community with the question. People just want others to do their dirty work instead of learning how to do the work themselves. Some of us like going in and calulating things ourselves, but stop taking these people for granted... We don't work for you.

[Feiht]

I don't think 3.3.3 is the deciding factor in what "tried and true" means. 3.3.3 didn't change a whole lot of things for us. One of our abilities is now more affected by haste. Great. But atk also affects that ability. As well as a plethora of other abilities. So does haste. So yes there is a possiblity that BM could come out on top, but through patch after patch after patch (I think you get the idea), of minor changes BM has been brough up in each of them. Most of the time with no supported evidence, just some guy/gal who seems to like the idea of having an enchant on their weapon with the name Black Magic I assume because it sounds cool or something. However in each patch (this one included), it has been crushed by zerk/zerk.

My comments are a bit one sided. And it probably falls into your argument about BM spec, but I'm pretty sick of hearing about this enchant in this manor. Research it and do some math before you come to the community with the question. People just want others to do their dirty work instead of learning how to do the work themselves. Some of us like going in and calulating things ourselves, but stop taking these people for granted... We don't work for you.

Tried and True has nothing whatsoever to do with a patch..his point was that to claim that the "Tried and True" methodology is the only way to go is a fallacy this early into the release of 3.3.3. Its not that one of our abilities is now MORE affected by haste, its that one of our abilities IS NOW affected by haste.

In both my initial testing, of which both my results and config files were provided, as well as my second set made after adjustments Berserking/Black Magic only differed from Dual Berserking by a staggering 10 DPS. Hardly Crushing.

Granted BM gets brought up every patch or so, but if you paid attention you would note that i had actually done some testing before bringing it up. My results seemed atypical and i wanted to see if anyone else was seeing the same results.

Your being sick of hearing about Black magic in any manner is just being stubborn when game or spell mechanics change. Hearing about it or having it or anything that is not the "norm" being brought up should be expected when there is a patch that changes the way a spell or ability worked. If no one tested it then there would be no way of knowing for certain whether or not it was infact still pointless or if it has now become viable.

In this case Flame Shock was changed to have DoT crits built in and be affected by haste. Black Magic happens to provide massive amounts of haste. Simply ignoring the possibility of its viability is ridiculous. This is where the testing comes in. Levva and the rest of the Enhsim and Rawr teams put in a lot of time and effort into making those resources simulate the game environment as perfectly as possible. Utilizing those resources gave results that made me say "Hmmmm..."

So what did i do with that info? i asked the rest of my peers if they were getting the same or similar results. The more people looking and the more people testing then the more likely you are to result in a correct or definitive answer.

My bad if i didn't break out the pen and paper and start working out all the math myself, if i had simply left the question as the topic then i would see your point. But in this case it really just seems as if you are assuming that since it is being brought up again then it must be because i am lazy and inconsiderate of the efforts others put in. I'm not.

I want and i try to make sure that i have the best possible tuning for my character as possible. this means that instead of waiting for others to test things out and then reading about it here or on EJ i test it out. If it doesn't work so be it, if it does Great. Get over yourself and look at the data when its provided. Acknowledge the possibility that the game changes with each patch, what was great yesterday will suck tomorrow... The only way we have of knowing for certain?

Sim it...

[Deleted]

Tried and True has nothing whatsoever to do with a patch..his point was that to claim that the "Tried and True" methodology is the only way to go is a fallacy this early into the release of 3.3.3.

Ah but, it is also a complete fallacy to think that we are "early into" the release of 3.3.3. Remember it was on the PTR for over a month before it hit live so those that looked into it would have been able to test such things for around 6 weeks plus now that's more than enough to have figured something out.

In past times I'd have been on the PTR myself and doing exactly this sort of testing. These days I'm rather too busy and haven't being playing much at all on the live servers at least.

[Oneleg]

I just buy the enchant, try it, after beating on a dummy for 15 min, and decided that zerking was still just a little bit better. This was with Abom knuckles and gutbuster.

I do have lockjaw and midnight sun, so I put a BM on the mace and cast flameshocks every time its up. Amazingly it goes off a bunch, only used it in 5 mans, cause for raiding I am Enhance most of the time.