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  1. #1

    Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Would like to ask some questions about disc healing at the Lich King Encounter. I know i am supposed to only shield people and use pom on this fight, maybe keep Grace up on a tank with penance. My question is cd of infest is around 20 secs ( not 100% sure on timer ) , during this time i am supposed to shield as many people as possible but on 25 man there is not enough time to shield 25 people , what i am doing so far is shield 3 groups with prio on ranged people and POH usually the healer grp leaving tanks. I do have some mana probs though with this tactic i usually go dry around the middle/end of p2 where my mana regen cd's have about 1 min or less to be usable again. With a drood innervating me i have no mana probs untill the end of p2 ( haven't gotten pas that so far).

    Was wondering if this is the right way to go cause most of the times shields aren't absorbed completely and i keep shielding the same people again and again so rapture isn't giving me mana back. Also some times especially during transitions or defile + valkyrs i am forced to cast some other spells to help on tanks/raid thus resulting in less shields that might kill melee with infest runing oor from healers.

    Would appreciate any tips. Also is it wrong to cast a flash heal or greater heal on a tank if neccesary or do i only and ONLY do shields during this encounter?
    Cheers in advance.

  2. #2

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    I recently had some attempts on LK25 with: hpala, rshaman, rdruid, 2 priests healing. At first we thought we'd be both better off as disc but we tried with both priests as holy and infest really wasn't a big deal. It's really not a big deal to heal through except on heroic I guess.

    On 10man normal you can use 1 bubble per 2 infests. However in 25man you won't have the gcds to bubble 3 groups right before 1 infest so that they last long enough for the 2nd infest probably, so I'd recommend downranking.

    I'm also not terribly certain how you can have people out of range of healers, but I don't have that much experience in 25man. If the 3 valkyr are flying off in the same direction (which they should) and healers don't spread out excessively for defile, range shouldn't be an issue.

    Either way it seems like you have a lot on your plate if you feel responsible for healing the tank when it's not your job and feeling responsible for letting infests get through here and there.

  3. #3

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    It depends on what healers you have, to some extent. If you're going to raid shield then you need to figure out your shield size so that people still take 1-2k damage from Infest consistently. You also should not be shielding tanks in P1/2 as it will screw with rapture. You're doing the right thing though. Shield 3 of the non-tank groups, then pre-cast PoH on the remaining group. Often Holy Priests will help out on the shielding of the fourth group though, so you may not need to even do that. For P1/2 you'll basically be doing that the whole time. During transitions you can help on tanks and play around a bit more. During P3 it will depends on your strategy. If you're using soakers then you won't be raid shielding much, just shielding the soakers and tank healing. If you're just spreading out and zergging you may want to raid shield. On 25 we use 3 soakers + 2 mages for backup ice blocks, so raid shielding really doesn't matter, but for some guilds it will. Talk to your healing lead and see what they want you to do.

  4. #4

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    If you're going to raid shield then you need to figure out your shield size so that people still take 1-2k damage from Infest consistently
    Why would you do this?
    Why would this matter?

  5. #5

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    PWS Rank 12 and only shield range or singletarget melees like enhancer. shielding warriors will maybye cost you a rapture proc. my personal record was something like 19990k mana. usually its 12-15k mana proc on every infest. i guess this should solve mana probs ;D

  6. #6

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revitalize
    Why would you do this?
    Why would this matter?
    So that you have some amount breaking through in order to proc rapture on multiple people at once, essentially giving you infinite mana.

  7. #7

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysdexic
    So that you have some amount breaking through in order to proc rapture on multiple people at once, essentially giving you infinite mana.
    And if you aren't doing this while still wasting your time raid-shielding, even with Shadow-fiend, Hymn of Hope, a mana potion, and using Power Infusion on yourself, you'll still need to have Innervates chained on you, instead of the Holy Paladin where they belong.
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  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysdexic
    So that you have some amount breaking through in order to proc rapture on multiple people at once, essentially giving you infinite mana.
    He's aware. But using anything other than max strength shields is a poor method of abusing Rapture on LK, and will bite you in P3.

  9. #9

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revitalize
    Why would you do this?
    Why would this matter?
    Partial resists of Infest are common and without a gear change anyone who partially resists will not have PW:S consumed. Making sure your shields are consumed ensures full rapture procs. Rank 11-12 is most common, 13-14 if switching gear instead. If you make sure shields are popped targets will still be left above 90% health and Infest will still drop off. LK is not healing intensive, but it is mana intensive. You're not putting anyone in danger by doing this, but you're ensuring that you'll have plenty of mana going into P3 and transitions where you won't be able to raid shield for consistent returns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury
    He's aware. But using anything other than max strength shields is a poor method of abusing Rapture on LK, and will bite you in P3.
    No, it won't. Most UIs, including the stock UI include multiple buttons on bars for use. If you are using a single-button UI you ought to re-access your playstyle. For people just starting the encounter down ranking is easier than designing a specific set of gear for the fight.

  10. #10

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    I just don't think 'bridging' shields is possible in 25man because of gcd constraints. (I may very well be wrong). But honestly if gimping yourself in p3 is the worry, you can always put both ranks on your spellbar.
    If you're unhappy with the 2nd keybind for pw:s, just quickly swap them as the 2nd transition pops, where the stronger shields will help more anyway.

    Edit: If you think weaker shields are jeopardizing your raid you could even use full strength shields for infest but swap to downranked for every third infest or something, since you gain such obscene amounts of mana you'll probably still be capped.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Partial resists of Infest are common and without a gear change anyone who partially resists will not have PW:S consumed. Making sure your shields are consumed ensures full rapture procs. Rank 11-12 is most common, 13-14 if switching gear instead. If you make sure shields are popped targets will still be left above 90% health and Infest will still drop off. LK is not healing intensive, but it is mana intensive. You're not putting anyone in danger by doing this, but you're ensuring that you'll have plenty of mana going into P3 and transitions where you won't be able to raid shield for consistent returns.

    No, it won't. Most UIs, including the stock UI include multiple buttons on bars for use. If you are using a single-button UI you ought to re-access your playstyle. For people just starting the encounter down ranking is easier than designing a specific set of gear for the fight.
    LOL

    I'm also aware that you can bind multiple ranks of Shields to your bars or Clique. I was addressing that point to those (like you discuss in your 3rd quoted sentence) people who will 'down rank' their gear instead of their shields. You can 'bridge' ~10 Shields every Infest if you do it right. In 25 man that means letting the 10 people you shielded right before that Infest carry over to the next one and over riding / putting up new ones on others. It creates a rolling effect that takes some skill, awareness, and thought.

    If you'd rather downgrade your shields or gear though, have fun.

  12. #12

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Cheers for the fast replies , i guess i could try downrank or bridging 10 shields which is doable and see what suits me more, gimping myself with worst gear i think is plainly stupid.

  13. #13
    High Overlord AtomicKiller's Avatar
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    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Was wondering if this is the right way to go cause most of the times shields aren't absorbed completely and i keep shielding the same people again and again so rapture isn't giving me mana back.
    just shield tank too...shield on tanks is always absorbed and give you mana from rapture...

  14. #14

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicKiller
    just shield tank too...shield on tanks is always absorbed and give you mana from rapture...
    And triggers the 12 second cooldown that stops you from gaining mana froma dditional shield breaks.
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  15. #15

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury
    I'm also aware that you can bind multiple ranks of Shields to your bars or Clique. I was addressing that point to those (like you discuss in your 3rd quoted sentence) people who will 'down rank' their gear instead of their shields. You can 'bridge' ~10 Shields every Infest if you do it right. In 25 man that means letting the 10 people you shielded right before that Infest carry over to the next one and over riding / putting up new ones on others. It creates a rolling effect that takes some skill, awareness, and thought.
    "Bridging" in the way you're describing is pointless and actually potentially dangerous. It also doesn't create any form of 'rolling' effect, nor does it require much skill. All you're doing is not over-writing an existing PW:S if it's duration is longer than 20 seconds. Let's say your shield is 8.5k Infest is 9.5-10.5k, a partial resist is usually 7-7.4k. All you're doing is letting shields stay up that will not prevent enough damage for Infest to automatically drop. You're merely leaving up bubbles with 1-1.5k health on them. It's also completely superfluous because raids do not have >30 people. Without 'rolling' you already cover 4 groups. That means at most you get 3 extra people, but the cost is leaving up shields that will only prevent 1-1.5k damage. So even with a resist they'll be taking ~6k damage. So unless they're a tank they need at least 4k healing to make sure Infest doesn't tick. You're making your raid less stable for the sake of being clever. You can't predict who you can 'bridge' those shields on before Infest hits. You will also not know how much healing is left on that shield.

    Many guilds don't even put a Disc Priest in charge of 4 groups, much less think it's a good idea to let them put up unpredictable and weak shields up on one group. They have a Disc Priest in charge of 3 groups, then a Holy Priest in charge of 1. The tank group and other melee in that group aren't shielded at all which are covered by Paladins/Shaman/CoH/Etc. Different guilds cover the tank group different ways. The net gain from bridging shields in 25 man (or 10H) is tiny and unpredictable, which just isn't acceptable. By freeing up the 5 seconds after Infest it allows Disc to drop PoH on the unshielded group, or do other spot healing on the tanks who are at the most risk of having Infest tick on them.

    'Bridging' should be reserved for 10N and only when you completely outgear it and are 3 healing. Proogression is about consistency, not unpredictability.

  16. #16

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Out of genuine curiosity harky how would you heal it with 2 healers? Presumably holy would be 'better' although I'm not sure how mana would turn out, and solo healing p3 would suck if the other healer gets harvested :O

  17. #17

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    in lk non hm there isnt really a need to put a disc in charge of shielding, infest is low and can be healed by a druid.
    On the otherhand HM 25 sucks ass :X u would need bis gear and a bis wl to do infest by ur own, with 2 discs.
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  18. #18

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysdexic
    Out of genuine curiosity harky how would you heal it with 2 healers? Presumably holy would be 'better' although I'm not sure how mana would turn out, and solo healing p3 would suck if the other healer gets harvested :O
    Druid/HolyPr would work for 2 healing, although Shaman/HolyPr works as well. HolyPa/Holy Pr would work if you had a Feral/Balance to give you Innervates.
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  19. #19

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysdexic
    Out of genuine curiosity harky how would you heal it with 2 healers? Presumably holy would be 'better' although I'm not sure how mana would turn out, and solo healing p3 would suck if the other healer gets harvested :O
    Uh, 25 man can't be 2 healed as far as I know. You talking about 10 man? If so then no, I don't recommend 2 healing it. You can two heal it, but you need both healers to be capable of heavy tank healing. Druid/Paladin is the main way it's done. The reason is that when doing something like say Holy Priest/Holy Paladin you run the risk of the Paladin being pulled into Shadowmourne and the Priest having a heart attack trying to tank heal. It is possible, but there's a lot of RNG. The reason most people 3 heal it is not because damage is out of control. There's less damage than on Festergut, or Blood Queen and both can be 2 healed, but because of the RNG in the fight it isn't as safe. 4-5 healing 25 man is safe because the amount of healers needed to get through P1 and P2 gives you excess healers in P3, which can be 2 healed.

  20. #20

    Re: Disc Priest And Lich King 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    And if you aren't doing this while still wasting your time raid-shielding, even with Shadow-fiend, Hymn of Hope, a mana potion, and using Power Infusion on yourself, you'll still need to have Innervates chained on you, instead of the Holy Paladin where they belong.
    I highly disagree, everytime Ive done Lich King, Ive never had to of worried about the rapture proccing infinite mana.

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