Feral Tank Having a little trouble with icc

[Taun]

for times when healers have slimes and are busy getting them to the slime tank.

I believe your talking about rotface?, If i ddin't get the topic completely wrong this is about festergut.

And if your referring to the spewing thingy, no healers should be getting that. Let them go melee and have ranged eating that instead.


And back to topic.

This fight for me was all about using cooldowns. I played a pallytank but the general idea should be transferable. With 3 inhales you could chaincooldown. Ofc you can use cds before the third inhale.

Myself since pallies can't really chaincd anymore used salvation (with the glyph) at the end of 2 and beginning of 3 inhales and then used my trinket (60 EoF one) and then shieldwalled (the pallyversion ofc)

If your doing all theese things correctly, then it's probably something that needs to be optimized with healing.

Are there 3 ranged in your group when you count the healers out? Are healers standing out and running around? If you got a pallyhealer and a shamanhealer for instance it's gonna get rough when they need to move, keeping them in the meleecamp will easy up alot on the healing.

Just my 2 cents, good luck next week

//tauun

And to the guy over me, There's been plenty of articles showing that druids was the ones getting hit the least by the icc 20% dodge debuff.

Edit: Wanted to provide a link for the article

http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/200...nce-bears.html

[Dargoth]

I believe your talking about rotface?, If i ddin't get the topic completely wrong this is about festergut.

And if your referring to the spewing thingy, no healers should be getting that. Let them go melee and have ranged eating that instead.

Ah yeah misread the first post as Rotface and Festergut not Putricide and I was referring to the oozes not the vomit.

[applefrostin]

we usualy use a disc priest and druid healer, and usualy go with 3 healers(pally or shaman) for fester 2 for putricide, i will probably gem a bit different when i have my 4pc bonus but im not gona change anything quite yet, i like the hit because i can pull crazy amounts of threat. i did talk to the priest healer tonight about it and is saying im just going down to fast like 38k in a hit or something like that. thanks for the help guys

[littlepiggy]

we usualy use a disc priest and druid healer, and usualy go with 3 healers(pally or shaman) for fester 2 for putricide, i will probably gem a bit different when i have my 4pc bonus but im not gona change anything quite yet, i like the hit because i can pull crazy amounts of threat. i did talk to the priest healer tonight about it and is saying im just going down to fast like 38k in a hit or something like that. thanks for the help guys

no boss should be hitting you for 38k (aside from LK), honestly.. tell your healers to pick up the slack because that's their problem

[Mrbora2k]

T10 should be the first things to be bought. Head, shoulder, leg and glove.

Belt, and Cloak can be second.

Boots must be third.

Trinket and Idol will be last.

This is where I disagree. Yes the t10 4p bonus is nice, but 12% damage reduction for 8 or so sec for me is about 4500 health (I average big hits of 15ishk so 45k-12%=4500ish) And I never need to use enrage during a fight so the armor reduction is pointless. With the trinket, belt and cloak you can increase your health by almost that exact amount. The idol stacks upto 5x so if I remember right it gives 55 agility per proc, 5x55 = 275 agi...how can you say that is not an important upgrade? Armor, dodge, damage...all are needed.

You can also get t10 from VoA 10/25 so by getting a few of the other pieces first can save you a lot of badges. I still do not have 4p10, I went with Idol, trinket, cloak, belt, gloves, (made my boots) and won sack of wonders. I then purchased my shoulders and helm for the 2 piece. EH when your running the first part of ICC is far more beneficial than reducing some damage for 8 sec. If I get in trouble I can use Barkskin, skeleton key, scarab (toc25) and fRegen. I have never had a problem with taking too much damage and I don't have the same healers healing me weekly so it's not my healers are picking up the slack.

This may not be what others go for, but I think it's the best way to go. Im currently 69k raid buffed/flasked. I can take 4 of those big hits and not need one heal, so if your heals can't heal you once in 10 sec then there is nothing you can do. Nothing should hit you for 38k, that is just wrong. Maybe, your getting hit twice and they aren't healing you fast enough. I am also full stam gem/enchant. 53% dodge, 33% dodge in ICC and 33.5k armor. I have cleared everything up to Sindragosa (however it's spelled) with out a problem. Just wanted to let you know another way you can go about gearing up.

[Auroro]

This is where I disagree. Yes the t10 4p bonus is nice, but 12% damage reduction for 8 or so sec for me is about 4500 health (I average big hits of 15ishk so 45k-12%=4500ish)

You can also get t10 from VoA 10/25 so by getting a few of the other pieces first can save you a lot of badges. I still do not have 4p10, I went with Idol, trinket, cloak, belt, gloves, (made my boots) and won sack of wonders. I then purchased my shoulders and helm for the 2 piece. EH when your running the first part of ICC is far more beneficial than reducing some damage for 8 sec. If I get in trouble I can use Barkskin, skeleton key, scarab (toc25) and fRegen. I have never had a problem with taking too much damage and I don't have the same healers healing me weekly so it's not my healers are picking up the slack.

I think you need to find out that enrage give you another button to lower the damage taken.

I would have Barkskin, Skeleton key (going to buy it soon), fRegen, SI, and Enrage then would get scarab (toc25) if i can find a pug for the raid. That mean i have at least 6 items to help me when healer mess up. You are too busy with Stamina Stacking to deal with other way to help yourself to lower the damage taken, that you have 5 button to click compare to mine which is 6 button.

I time my CD so well that I never have to pop fRegen in Frestergut in 25 ICC.

I think your healer are being lazy because you are holding their hand with your high health.

I already have 10(11)/16 of the gears listed in the list of mine. The only thing i need is Necklace, ring, and trinket. The weapon would be Bloodfall if I can get my guild to do Blood Wing, then keep trying to get the best polearm for feral tanking from the Lich King.

If you have really bad luck like me, it is better to buy the T10 gear and get the 4 piece bonus.

Also if you have time it right, you could have 24% damage being reduce. Enrage+Barkskin.

EoF trinket is not that good to buy before the T10 or the cloak, the belt, and the boots. Same with the Idol. They are ok.

Idol is minor upgrade where as T10 is a bigger and must needed gear in order to get T10 264.

I bought my cloak first because it is the biggest upgrade I needed for my tanking gear, Aged Winter Cloak to Sentinel's Winter Cloak.

Then I started to buy each pieces of T10 except for the chest. If I won a piece in VOA that good news, then I would have skip that piece and finish my gear set up sooner.

Now my guild knew that I am done getting all of my T10 pieces for tanking and is waiting to upgrade them, two more to go, Leg and Gloves. They also know that the gear i am looking for are deeper in ICC and they would need to skip the unholy wing in order for me to get the last pieces before weapon.

If you have check my GS, Wowhero, and whatever, you would find that ICC 25 man is easy toward my tanking set, even my OS is laughing at ICC 10 man.

I just need a better guild that has a good time frame for raiding.

[Richmond]

I know that it may sound weird and noobish, but unfortunatly with the 20% debuff on dodge, that's the best way to go as a feral tank in ICC

Underlining and bolding this only further proves your ignorance to the ICC debuff, its a static 20% off the top of your current dodge, if your sat at 45% dodge before you walk in, then you'll be sat at 25% when you get in. If anything, dodge is more important than it ever has been, when you get DK's pushing 27%+ parry along with about 5% dodge (Insert Warr/Paladin equilivant). So what your saying is that we just forget about our one and only avoidance stat?? "Oh dodge is useless now, i'll just stack stamina because thats what all the top guild druids are doing" - They are running 25man HC, are you? Or is the OP?

Back to the point, after checking your armory, your more than in a good place to tank ICC 10, your in give or take equal gear to me and i'm currently on 10/12, and we're not failing to my inability to tank, its to do with our raids coordination atm. The things that could help you out are the following though,

Enchant your weapon with Mongoose, Slap 22 Agil on cloak
Buy your T10 headpiece first and pray for the legs in VOA (Trust me on this one, you'll be kicking yourself if you just bought your legs and then they drop the day/week after, plus its an awesome upgrade to your current head piece)
I do like your gemming scheme, but if you really value the socket bonus then 10 Def/15 Stamina is the way to go in a yellow socket, its even more valueable considering that your well over the hit cap
Eat Agi/Stam food
Carry Indestructable potions on you all the time (Have a stack of 40 for a raid)

As far as Festergut is concerned, your more than capable of taking him in the first instance and more than capable of taking him second. Make sure you glyph for Frenzied Regen and SI, which would should be anyway. Timely CD's are key on this fight.

Rotface? If your on the boss, you'll be more than fine. On the adds? This is my job, literally the only thing you can do it FFF on every CD and taunt if it starts wondering. If you get the mutigen, then call for a dispell asap and then mangle it (Infected wounds will slow it down until it gets consumed)

Other than that, its a healer problem, your bound to take more damage on 3 inhales. It will be especially difficult if your making that switch between 3 to 2 healers

[Mrbora2k]

Quote from: Tripawd on March 30, 2010, 08:51:39 am
This is where I disagree. Yes the t10 4p bonus is nice, but 12% damage reduction for 8 or so sec for me is about 4500 health (I average big hits of 15ishk so 45k-12%=4500ish)

You can also get t10 from VoA 10/25 so by getting a few of the other pieces first can save you a lot of badges. I still do not have 4p10, I went with Idol, trinket, cloak, belt, gloves, (made my boots) and won sack of wonders. I then purchased my shoulders and helm for the 2 piece. EH when your running the first part of ICC is far more beneficial than reducing some damage for 8 sec. If I get in trouble I can use Barkskin, skeleton key, scarab (toc25) and fRegen. I have never had a problem with taking too much damage and I don't have the same healers healing me weekly so it's not my healers are picking up the slack.

I think you need to find out that enrage give you another button to lower the damage taken.

I would have Barkskin, Skeleton key (going to buy it soon), fRegen, SI, and Enrage then would get scarab (toc25) if i can find a pug for the raid. That mean i have at least 6 items to help me when healer mess up. You are too busy with Stamina Stacking to deal with other way to help yourself to lower the damage taken, that you have 5 button to click compare to mine which is 6 button.

I time my CD so well that I never have to pop fRegen in Frestergut in 25 ICC.

I think your healer are being lazy because you are holding their hand with your high health.

Also if you have time it right, you could have 24% damage being reduce. Enrage+Barkskin.

EoF trinket is not that good to buy before the T10 or the cloak, the belt, and the boots. Same with the Idol. They are ok.

Idol is minor upgrade where as T10 is a bigger and must needed gear in order to get T10 264.

I bought my cloak first because it is the biggest upgrade I needed for my tanking gear, Aged Winter Cloak to Sentinel's Winter Cloak.

Then I started to buy each pieces of T10 except for the chest. If I won a piece in VOA that good news, then I would have skip that piece and finish my gear set up sooner.

Now my guild knew that I am done getting all of my T10 pieces for tanking and is waiting to upgrade them, two more to go, Leg and Gloves. They also know that the gear i am looking for are deeper in ICC and they would need to skip the unholy wing in order for me to get the last pieces before weapon.

If you have check my GS, Wowhero, and whatever, you would find that ICC 25 man is easy toward my tanking set, even my OS is laughing at ICC 10 man.

I just need a better guild that has a good time frame for raiding.

Read the bold/italic text

Barkskin plus Enrage would reduce damage taken by 32% not 24

I think your missing the point of my post. Im not telling you that the 4p bonus is worthless, all im saying is I went about another way of getting it. Stacking all the sta that comes from the iLvl 264 did make a lot of the earlier fights easier for me/my raid. I would rather have more EH through out the fight, rather than depend on a CD. There is nothing wrong with your way of gearing or mine. My way just increases the chance of getting tier pieces from VoA.

You said it yourself, my healers are lazy because I have a lot of stam...If that is the case, wouldn't you want to make it easier on your healers? Maybe you should re-read my post before jumping to conclusions. Every person gears up a different way due to their current gear state, all I did was state why I did it the way I did. I never said your way was wrong/bad. However I do think the Idol should always be the first piece you get as it's so cheap and has a big benefit.

That is all...

[AlisterX]

My druid is at 46k health unbuffed out of ICC and yeah I also have a threat problem but i only figured that it was because I had a 232 weapon.... and I only have 10 expertise from the default talent points (good thing im getting my 264 frost chest soon!!)

[Dharmabhum]

My druid is at 46k health unbuffed out of ICC and yeah I also have a threat problem but i only figured that it was because I had a 232 weapon.... and I only have 10 expertise from the default talent points (good thing im getting my 264 frost chest soon!!)

Yea a complete lack of expertise will hurt your threat. Go figure. T10+Irkfus 4tw btw.

[Dargoth]

My druid is at 46k health unbuffed out of ICC and yeah I also have a threat problem but i only figured that it was because I had a 232 weapon.... and I only have 10 expertise from the default talent points (good thing im getting my 264 frost chest soon!!)

Absolutely get that expertise up, until you hit the soft cap expertise is by far your best threat stat. (after that hit and exp are roughly equal with arpen coming in third) T9 helm and t10 legs are two slots that boost expertise massively plus the sack of awseomness from Gunship 25. Don't spend badges on a chest get the Gunship one, it's even BOE if you have 15k gold sitting around. (I think that's the price I've seen bandied around) It is BiS before heroics and is the best piece of t10 to swap out and keep the four piece bonus.

Getting the tanking neck off Jaraxxus will help and the crafted iLevel 264 boots.

I was sitting on something like 56 expertise early on in ICC (over hard cap I know) and have dropped to 40 now due to the severe lack of expertise on ICC gear. ICC gear has a ton of arpen however which tends to counteract the expertise loss.

[applefrostin]

I was up to 400+ hit at one point and 41 expertise but as my gear changed so did that.

When we do rot face i go boomkin and we use a hunter to kite it works very well, hunter still does damage to the boss with his pet and the occasional attack and can keep safe distance and aggro on the mob.


Ill be getting my head this week i need 22 badges which i should be able to get tonight from icc/weekly/daily

[papey]

i stand with about 55k health buffed in ICC, i dotn gem stam i dont have stam trinkets, but my armor averages at about 40k throughout a fight +/- dependign on procs, and this isn't including the 5k armor i get from my trinket when i go below 35%, i stacked health at the beggining of ICC but was new to WotLK raiding so was in trimph badge gear, i stood at around the same health then. i know alot of you might think my health is too low but my healers like it, in fact they encourage our tanks to stack armor instead of health, (with health obviously an added bonus).

i know this wasn't what was asked by the OP but i see alot of people saying that after 26 expertise hit is equal to hit. i have to disagree, after 26 expertise hit it alot beter than expertise. and this is because of taunt. a missed taunt can be fatal i ICC, if it misses on saurfang thats a few seconds of healing he's geting making the fight longer. on fester a couple missing in a row (not likley but possible) could make ur tank explode wiping the raid, u need 17% spell hit for growl to not miss, 9% with the glyph, this is slightly below the amount of hit rating you need for melee. but a very good idea to get.

back to what i originally said about health, i have "enough" for my healers, if you have more health than your fellow tank but are taking more damage then maybe you could lose some to more mitigation or avoidance, this might stop them complaining. i trust my healers and there opinion on how i am to heal and i then use that to help my judgement in gem choices. if you are dieing becouse the healers cant heal you fast enough then yer gem for stam, if they are compliaing that you take too much damage then maybe you are. which ever way you gem you have the gear for 25man, so just gem it acordingly.

[papey]

wish i'd have seen the front page before my last post but never mind

with the ICC buff now standing at 10% there seems to me to be even less of a reason to stack stam, if im not going to die from lack of heals on the health i have atm then whats the point in having more of it. seems to me to be a wasted stat that could go into more threat, (and more damage reduction, but as i already said im not going to die from RNG anyway)

[Cypher-Khan]

with the ICC buff now standing at 10% there seems to me to be even less of a reason to stack stam, if im not going to die from lack of heals on the health i have atm then whats the point in having more of it. seems to me to be a wasted stat that could go into more threat, (and more damage reduction, but as i already said im not going to die from RNG anyway)

You know, Ill use that damn buff, but damn me if its not painfully large... Id have almost preferred 1-6% instead of the 5-30% that they plan.... But... I should buff up to 65-66k this week. Which is nice. I might even crack 70k if I change trinkets and a gem or two.

But you're right tho... that buff is gonna take care of any issue anyone has with health. I wonder if it'll be worth switching out some stamina gems at later levels of the buff (tho I suppose if you did that you'd look small compared to the tanks that didn't... with PuG tanks being judged almost solely on HP)

[kilssii]

well ferals usually take pretty much dmg but in other hand they have a huge amounts of health to take it. For many fights they are the best.
Tell your healers to grow a pair

[littlepiggy]

feral gemming and trinket's is up to you and your raid, mine prefer lots of hp because it's a bigger buffer and because LK hit's fucking hard with no way to mitigate it. both the tanks stack stamina (not 100%, but mostly) and early on we'd have a raging spirit up that would silence the ot and i would barely live with a cd because of my hp pool. i'll be up to 64-65k hp this week with the 10% and won't stop stacking because of LK heroic, but again that's perfectly fine with my healers

[scorch109]

as a class we will take more damage. trying to make yourself take less damage, but having less helath as a side effect is effectively making us a bad version of different tanks, stamina is what we excel at. and generally you work towards your forte.