To Rets: Would you give up....

[Benedictous]

Would you give up your ability to cast Holy Light so you could have a snare or gap closer , or Avenging Wrath allowing you the use of an Interrupt (madness I know) while under the affects of it but you can no longer cast Sacred Shield ever.

The question is really about a talent that I thought of while driving today. It was all because I thought of the definition of Retribution.

From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retribution

Something justly deserved; recompense.

Something given or demanded in repayment, especially punishment.

I think that a Ret paladin is a paladin that is overly zealous. Like a fanatic (hence the talent Fanaticism) who devotes themselves fully to the distribution of justice. It is a specialization, so you have to devote time to it and that takes away from time that would have been spent on learning other things such as healing or protection. The paladin is so full of zeal that distributing justice has overtaken any other course of action.

The talent would work as I first pointed out in this post, but allows you to open up Crusader Strike and Divine Storm. You could be what I think was the real goal of paladins, but Blizzard could never manage to find the balance for, offensive support.

Anyways just sending the idea out there see if anyone wants to bounce it around.

[Nikoll]

um...no?

[Benedictous]

well why not

[rulk]

uhhh what? I'd give up bubble for a snare, but not holy light/FoL

[ragingsoul]

Giving up the only PVE dps cd retribution have for a useless talent in pve and an op interput in pvp?
Sure, let's fuck up the class even more.

[Prentice]

We lost the best aspect of Sacred Shield already. Without the HoT, it's merely a shell of what it used to be.

[Benedictous]

Giving up the only PVE dps cd retribution have for a useless talent in pve and an op interput in pvp?
Sure, let's fuck up the class even more.

Maybe you misread, but the Avenging Wrath idea would let you have an interrupt but not use Sacred Shield..... not quite sure where you got that AW would go away.

OP Interrupt? Mind you that it can only be used when you can't bubble and everyone who sees your giant wings targets you for a hard switch.

[Sphincter]

I'd be a happy camper if my bubble couldn't be dispelled. Its our only line of defense in arenas besides hand of salvation. Snares & interrupts can be covered by other classes.

[ragingsoul]

Maybe you misread, but the Avenging Wrath idea would let you have an interrupt but not use Sacred Shield..... not quite sure where you got that AW would go away.

OP Interrupt?

since AW is an a 2min cd, it's not gonna change anything.
And yes, the day Paladins get an interput like other melees or a MS I'm gonna play arena for 24 hours straight to 3000 rating and be sure to get gladiator title before they change it back.

[Copain]

I'D MAKE IT SO HOLY PALADINS CAN'T EXIST SO I CAN BE RE--- wait..

[Benedictous]

You are telling me that being allowed to INTERRUPT 1 time in 20 seconds per 2 min is overpowered? You should back up statements with supporting arguments.

[ragingsoul]

You are telling me that being allowed to INTERRUPT 1 time in 20 seconds per 2 min is overpowered? You should back up statements with supporting arguments.

Why would you want to change it to something completely useless in the first place?
what would 1 interput in a 20sec window on a 2min cd bring to pve or pvp?

[Deleted]

what would 1 interput in a 20sec window on a 2min cd bring to pve or pvp?

even better since its tied to AW they could just dispell it and not worry about the interupt at all

[Nikoll]

we dont need to lose shit to get basic tools every other melee has, aside from cats. ret and cats need a basic interrupt. not an ms. never an ms (sure i want one, but we dont need one). right now prot is better at arenas than ret. there is something vastly wrong with that. All of our shit can be dispelled. that needs to be changed, or at least some talents to reduce chance of dispel vastly.

i mean, saying we remove heals, well than boomkins, enh/ele shamans, and shadow priest shouldnt be able to heal either. and dks should have to lose deathgrip if they want histeria, as well as wars lose their death wish to be able to pummel.

To be very frank, your ideas are fucking retarded.

[Benedictous]

Why would you want to change it to something completely useless in the first place?
what would 1 interput in a 20sec window on a 2min cd bring to pve or pvp?

What I am trying to address is a lack of "utility." But I agree with Blizzard, giving us these tools without taking anything away would be incredibly overpowered in PvP. So this is what I came up with as maybe something that might help with this long-standing issue without severely affecting PvE or making the class too dominate in PvP.

The point of this thread was to see if other Ret paladins would give up something, not necessarily these skills, for their much desired utility for PvP.

[Benedictous]

we dont need to lose shit to get basic tools every other melee has, aside from cats. ret and cats need a basic interrupt. not an ms. never an ms (sure i want one, but we dont need one). right now prot is better at arenas than ret. there is something vastly wrong with that. All of our shit can be dispelled. that needs to be changed, or at least some talents to reduce chance of dispel vastly.

i mean, saying we remove heals, well than boomkins, enh/ele shamans, and shadow priest shouldnt be able to heal either. and dks should have to lose deathgrip if they want histeria, as well as wars lose their death wish to be able to pummel.

To be very frank, your ideas are fucking retarded.

We have very useful tools that you are not taking into account. Have you ever seen a boomkin HoF someone out of a kidney shot or cleanse off a sheep? Ever seen a DK throw a shield on the healer and toss FoL on them to save them from a hard switch? Shadow priests have to leave their form to heal. Ever had an enhancement shaman toss out Divine Sac or Sacrifice to become almost completely immune to half the CC's in the game or to save a teammate while the healer is CC'd?


We can't have it all, but maybe we can pick and choose what we want to have.

[Doylez]

RetPaladin survivabiliy has already taken a huge hit with the sacred shield nerfs. An interrupt only with Avenging Wrath would be almost useless. Rets need more buttons to push that do something other than LOLDAMAGE, and I don't see why they should give something up for it. EVERY other class has either an interrupt, a slow, a useful CC, a gapcloser or something to show any kind of skill. Ret has absolutely nothing. Spam your boring PvE DMG buttons in PvP and either you win because you're good enough equipped and do enough damage or you don't.

Btw. Prot - the tanking spec - has some amazing things that Ret desperately needs, Avengers Shield is amazing in PvP, Protdamage is comparable to Ret and the survivability is much higher. Kind of a joke that a PvE tanking spec is so much better for PvP.

[ragingsoul]

What I am trying to address is a lack of "utility." But I agree with Blizzard, giving us these tools without taking anything away would be incredibly overpowered in PvP. So this is what I came up with as maybe something that might help with this long-standing issue without severely affecting PvE or making the class too dominate in PvP.

The point of this thread was to see if other Ret paladins would give up something, not necessarily these skills, for their much desired utility for PvP.

lack of utility?

where to begin?

Aura
Blessing
Hand of Protection
Hand of Salvation
Hand of Sacrifice
Cleanse
group cd

that, for every spec, well, if you won't know how to use those, maybe you should before asking for more.

hand of protection, salvation and sacrifice are far more valuable than 2 interput per fights in pve, and in pvp, if you know how to use those, it can make you win at lot of games.

[Nikoll]

We have very useful tools that you are not taking into account. Have you ever seen a boomkin HoF someone out of a kidney shot or cleanse off a sheep? Ever seen a DK throw a shield on the healer and toss FoL on them to save them from a hard switch? Shadow priests have to leave their form to heal. Ever had an enhancement shaman toss out Divine Sac or Sacrifice to become almost completely immune to half the CC's in the game or to save a teammate while the healer is CC'd?


We can't have it all, but maybe we can pick and choose what we want to have.

our shield absorbs, what about 800 damage? ever seen a ret cyclone/sprint/bearform to regen ALL of their mana? ever seen an enh summon wolves and stun lock you while they sprint away? and we cant become immune to CCs unless you mean through a bubble. hof only removes the existing, at that point we can be stuned again, or dispelled and put right in another slow. never seen warrior self buffs dispelled. you cant purge a shamans shield (unless that was changed, last time i played my shaman in PvP you couldn't). and, yes, ive seen plenty of DKs fuck a hard switch. its called strangulate and deathgrip, take your pick.

[Benedictous]

lack of utility?

where to begin?

Aura
Blessing
Hand of Protection
Hand of Salvation
Hand of Sacrifice
Cleanse
group cd

that, for every spec, well, if you won't know how to use those, maybe you should before asking for more.

hand of protection, salvation and sacrifice are far more valuable than 2 interput per fights in pve, and in pvp, if you know how to use those, it can make you win at lot of games.

See two posts above BUT I am glad to see you are catching on. Every skill in this game is "utility." My offer is to replace the over abundance of defensive utility with a couple pieces of offensive utility.