Avoidance Tanking

[Milyardo]

Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rak&cn=Nilinor

For my Tankadin, I gem avoidance. However, I've come here looking for insight on how I can build a better Avoidance tank.

The last thread I wrote here, there was some useful, though off topic feedback on how I could improve my talents. For example, I had 5/5 points in Reckoning and someone pointed out that if I were gemming avoidance, the return from Reckoning diminished with the more avoidance I had. Thus I removed the points from Reckoning and Redoubt( for the same reason) and was able to put a few more points in to Retribution to pick up SoC. The last thread also convinced to buy the Glyph over using Heroic Eitriggs Oath, a descion I've been very happy with.

In this thread, I'm opening up to discussion on how I could improve my build even more as an avoidance tank, however discussion on reasons why I should gem just straight Stam and skip avoidance all together is still off topic. Although I would be interested in discussion on balancing avoidance and Stam. As with the way Wrath gear is itemized, there just isn't enough Stam on gear alone(mostly because the assumption is tank will get enough Stam by gemming for it, almost to regardless of what the socket bonus is). Fortunately, ICC gear has enough red sockets in its gear to where I can gem avoidance and have enough Stam from socket bonuses, while feeling like I'm being rewarded for gemming avoidance. However, a more formal way choosing socket bonus's(other than get everyone of them) would be nice.

As for my current gear, the 4 piece t10 bonus seems like a must have. I plan on purchasing the t10 chest, then crafting myself the 264 legs and boots. With my trinkets, I was Ideally hoping to get Corpse Tongue Coin in the near future(Lost it 4 times already to other tanks -_-, the last one was to a tank who thought the trinket was trash, but wanted it any way to increase his gearscore). However I was considering buying the Skeleton Key as a temporary upgrade over the Onyixa Talisman, or perhaps Unidentifiable Organ.
Because Nilinor is my alt, I don't see him downing any more content in the foreseeable future besides what can be cleared in one night of ICC(ie 9-11/12 in 10 ICC or 4-6 in 25) and I think I don't think there are any other upgrades I could look forward to .

As for cool downs, I've been unsure of the most effective means of cycling between the t10 bonus, Divine Protection, and the Glyph on use. For now, I've been using the t10 bonus evertime its up with the glyph every other time the Divine Plea is off cool down. Though I have been thinking instead that I should probably save them for moments where they're needed using one after another as their effects fade. The rotation I was thinking was using Divine Protection, after its effect fades, then use Divine Plea, and the then the Glyph. Stacking all 3 cooldowns is also an option, however that seems like overkill for most situations I can think of.

I'm looking forward to criticisms, and I hope this thread stays on topic.

[kenneth044]

It has been quite some time since I've tanked - but I am still pretty sure, that gemming pure defends will resolve in higher avoidance than gemming agi.

[Iamafk]

Just....no. You wrote a nice op and all, but your armory just screams no, and it's for reasons you've deemed off topic.

[thedeadguy]

Gemming defense when hes way over the cap. Ballin.

[chinoquezada]

This is the definition of terribad.

[fizikz]

My pally, who has been retired for months now, and is in about half the gear you have has 7k more health than you unbuffed, if you think your MAYBE 10% more avoidance is going to make you easier to heal, you're wrong. so, so, so, wrong, and even more stubborn. there's reason you see so many tanks stack stam, and it's not to look cool, or get into pugs. it's because it works the best.

[Evilution]

I´m just gonna quote XT-002 Deconstructor here... NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Don´t gear for pure avoidance, the change they did in ICC means they don´t want us
getting too high avoidance, we´re meant to take more hits but they damage is a bit
more predictable with the high armor we can get now, and keeps healers calmer i´d
say than watching the healthbar on the tank like a ping-pong game.

[itedo]

Gemming defense when hes way over the cap. Ballin.

i can't go to the armory on work but to say 540 is the def cap is probably even more /facepalm

[kenneth044]

i can't go to the armory on work but to say 540 is the def cap is probably even more /facepalm

Exactly!

Gemming defense when hes way over the cap. Ballin.

540 Defense rating is a minimum, not a cap! D'oh!. Anything above 540 will still increases your avoidance.

[Adeleina]

You won't get far in ICC far if you gem as you do...

I like avoidance, it's RNG based, but still it's nice to have higher chancers to survive that blow when you are at 10% of your health and healers are too busy running out of the fire...

However, if you gem pure avoidance, you lose too much EH to survive tank death scenarios. EH comes from stamina and armor, and benefits from them multiply. Designers know that, and make fights so that you need certain amount of EH to be good enough. Of course that amount is not set in stone, is dependant on fight, difficulty etc... But you NEED to have high stamina, on par with armor, to be considered good enough for Citadel.

Avoidance is just an addition, and unless you are doing old content, you should treat this as just an addition.

That's what I do. I got 42k HP UB and 30k+ armor without auras etc... So I gem agi+stam in red sockets, def+stam in yellows and stam in blues. A little additional avoidance wouldn't hurt, and actually is quite usefull. Also, I got Corpse Tounge Coin (or whatever it's called, that's the dodge trinket with huge armor proc when you are below 30% health) <- that trinket is simply amazing for paladin.

I never been fan of pure stam stacking, but still you need high stam. Gemming pure avoidance will make you useless.

[Aedh]

You are bad.....for not having redoubt.

You are also bad for have Seals of the Pure.

If you are seriously planning on building an avoidance set, then here what you do:
In red sockets, gem defense.
In blue sockets, gem defense.
In yellow sockets, gem dense.
Match blue sockets that give you avoidance bonuses with agil or defense hybrids.

Use agility on your cloak and hands.

And have fun getting one shot by magic damage.

[Kayvas]

no redoubt and vindication and pursuit of justice but 5/5 Sealf of the pure maked me cry...

btw

avoidance help your healer because you need fewer heal no less mana usage but 99% of the times you die because the damage arrived before you get healer in time and not for a healer mana issue... so a bigger healt pool that allow you to soak 2 hit in a row is much more desiderable than a random chance to not being hit

[phrash]

Can someone explain why SotP is a bad place to spend points?

I thought it was better threat when using Seal of Vengeance ???

[Zyroxe]

Not gemming stamina is bad in so many ways, especially as a paladin.

First of in current content tank healers aint stopcast macroing as they did in tbc, they are just spamming you with whatever overheal they can, so even if u avoid the hit u will get healed for massive amounts, therefor making stamina a better choice.

Second you got Ardent Defender, wich is based on your total healt, meaning the higher hp pool you have the faster it will kick in and reduce dmg with 20%

Edit; Why dont you have divine sacc and divine guardian? its another 2 minute cooldown reducing all dmg by 20%. And as others mentioned, Redoubt, PoJ, are mandatory.

In my opinion this is the only real tanking specc for endgame content. http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....00000000000000

[kenneth044]

Can someone explain why SotP is a bad place to spend points?
I thought it was better threat when using Seal of Vengeance ???

As a threat talent, you are better of chosing something else with your 5 talent points (hint: Crusade, which increase your damage done by up to 6% against most mobs)

[Aelith]

It wont work, blizzard designs the encounters that way, if you stack avoidance you will get roflstomped by the unavioidable attacks, Aswell as stamina is always there and avoidance is RNG

[christianf]

Well these days migitation is considered better then avoidance for icc. Too bad we can't gem armor :P

But in my opinion it seems better to have 45k unbuffed and 28% dodge then 35k with 35% dodge (this is just an example)
Because should you wait for that 20k hit to finally hit on you? And if you are unlucky you get two of those hits and you are dead. And with the more hp you will get a bit more steady hits but the healers know what they are up to, and it will be easier for them to keep you up, but that is my idea of it.

And no defense gemming is not the best, because of the huge diminishing returns. I think it is better to do then dodge or parry gems. Anyways good luck

[Aedh]

Can someone explain why SotP is a bad place to spend points?

I thought it was better threat when using Seal of Vengeance ???

More damage on a fraction of your total damage vs slightly less extra damage on ALL your attacks.

15% more damage on what is (for me) roughly 25% of my total damage vs 3,6 or 7% more damage on 100% of my damage.

[Aedh]

And no defense gemming is not the best, because of the huge diminishing returns. I think it is better to do then dodge or parry gems. Anyways good luck

You have that backwards.

Because of the diminishing returns it is better to gem defense for pure avoidance. Diminishing returns are calculated separately for miss, dodge and parry. You will get more overall avoidance gemming defense.

[Zyroxe]

If you really want to go for avoidance tanking, not suggested at all, go for agi gems, as they add small amount of threat, avoidance and armor. Armor is second best stat after stamina thus making agi gem > dodge in red slots