1. #1

    Affliction or Destruction?

    Well as stated in the title, affliction or destruction for ICC raiding?

    Personally i've found affliction to be very good, up until there are adds in the fight. For example on LK when the val'kyr spawns, its practically impossible to keep all your DoTs rolling on LK as well as nuking the val'kyr down. While I can see Affli coming out on fights such as Festergut + Deathwhisper, is destruction better for fights with high movement/adds in it? This could obviously just be a learn to play issue on my part, if so can anyone give me some suggestions as to improve?

    Synygy

  2. #2
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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Get a DoT Tracker addon. Affliction is far superior if there are adds up if you can manage to keep up. It's also incredible for P3 on the LK when all the spirits spawn above.
    [...]

  3. #3

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Yea, Affli is good for fights where low movement is possible such as festergut and fights where there are lots of adds alove for a long period of time.

    Destro is good for lots of fights too, I regularly top the DPS with destro on putricide and rotface and some similar fights.

  4. #4

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by nereme
    Yea, Affli is good for fights where low movement is possible such as festergut and fights where there are lots of adds alove for a long period of time.

    Destro is good for lots of fights too, I regularly top the DPS with destro on putricide and rotface and some similar fights.
    Destro for saurfang affli for the rest due to doing awsome dps while moving.

  5. #5

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    If you check the logs you should find that the majority of Warlocks are using the following spec for LK and Heroic modes, 31/30/10

    With the recent changes to Life Tap, the heavy survivability Dark Pact build produces enough mana return to effectively reach the MP5 cap (obviously I'm talking about the warlock equivalent) without having to glyph for extra spirit.

    The DPS in this spec is slightly lower than the conventional specs but this is offset by being able to combine Master Conjuror with Master Summoner to increase your minions' dps by 300%. Looking at the talents you can probably see that this spec will roll with the Succy, using chain seduces to empower your Shadow Bolts during the execute phase.

    I haven't had a chance to try it myself yet in a raid environment, but it's working pretty well for me against the test dummies.

  6. #6
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Lol Rat, April now rite? *gig*

    Banned for questioning the integrity of Rat ~ Rat
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  7. #7

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    ....... ;D ........ :-X

    You should give Demo a try. It's a lot more fun than the other specs, not as many dots to manage, not as boring as destro, and you embrace target switching, not to mention provide a great raid buff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zehlkatur
    I have died some times for just blinking away from* balls and straight in to another pair of balls.
    Nerf teabagging!

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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefario
    ....... ;D ........ :-X

    You should give Demo a try. It's a lot more fun than the other specs, not as many dots to manage, not as boring as destro, and you embrace target switching, not to mention provide a great raid buff.
    It's more fun than Destro. But definatly not more fun than Affliction is.
    What is worth fighting for?

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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    True that, at least for those who think much to do = fun, nothing beats keeping full shadow embrace and full dots on 2 targets simultaneously
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  10. #10

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horrid Crow
    It's more fun than Destro. But definatly not more fun than Affliction is.
    Guess it's a matter of preference, but I'll take demo over afflic any day for "fun factor"...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zehlkatur
    I have died some times for just blinking away from* balls and straight in to another pair of balls.
    Nerf teabagging!

  11. #11
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Yea some ppl think big numbers are fun, others to have a more challenging spec, all depends on what one enjoy
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  12. #12

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Demo is both IMO. If you think demo is cake try it and try to keep up with the affliction locks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zehlkatur
    I have died some times for just blinking away from* balls and straight in to another pair of balls.
    Nerf teabagging!

  13. #13
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Demo is my offspec and no its not as challenging cos demo IS a singletarget spec, unless you have some nice Soulfire which linger onto the target and do more damage while you are busy casting in on your other targets

    Damagewise yea it's hard to keep up, most of the times its impossible with equal gear and skill. Demo will keep up at decimationrolling encounters like prince's, funship, maybe LK normal as well but mostly thats due to the Meta-AoE part. We all love buffbots tho, I simply doesnt want to be the one doing it ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  14. #14

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis
    Demo is my offspec and no its not as challenging cos demo IS a singletarget spec, unless you have some nice Soulfire which linger onto the target and do more damage while you are busy casting in on your other targets

    Damagewise yea it's hard to keep up, most of the times its impossible with equal gear and skill. Demo will keep up at decimationrolling encounters like prince's, funship, maybe LK normal as well but mostly thats due to the Meta-AoE part. We all love buffbots tho, I simply doesnt want to be the one doing it ^^
    Rolling decimation makes it arguably the best target-switching spec for our class. I don't mind being the buff bot.. everyone's always happy to see me when I'm demo. ;D Really though I'd say affliction, especially in it's current state, is easier to manage than Demo. The spells fit into a predictable rotation and the durations line up nicely. In Demo you have to know when to pop form at the right times for each encounter, watch for molten core procs, change nukes based on target health and still maintain ISB, all while still maintaining a curse, two dots, and life tap. I could throw in DE too but I macro'd it to certain spells. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Zehlkatur
    I have died some times for just blinking away from* balls and straight in to another pair of balls.
    Nerf teabagging!

  15. #15
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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nefario
    Rolling decimation makes it arguably the best target-switching spec for our class. I don't mind being the buff bot.. everyone's always happy to see me when I'm demo. ;D Really though I'd say affliction, especially in it's current state, is easier to manage than Demo. The spells fit into a predictable rotation and the durations line up nicely. In Demo you have to know when to pop form at the right times for each encounter, watch for molten core procs, change nukes based on target health and still maintain ISB, all while still maintaining a curse, two dots, and life tap. I could throw in DE too but I macro'd it to certain spells. :P
    Does it? only time you can decimate roll is on trash/saurfang adds cos their hp need to be low enough to get a decent uptime. Know when to pop Meta? Is it really that hard to keep two things in mind:
    * how long the fight will last (how many Metas you can fit)
    * when you will get bloodlust or queenbite etc

    Doesnt seem very hard for me, you put 2 dots up and just spam SB, untill you cast 3 incin then wait for sub 35%. So no, unless you speak about trash Demo is hardly the best target-switching spec.


    and still maintain ISB, all while still maintaining a curse, two dots, and life tap
    hehe *sigh*
    you curse last 5 mins, instantcast, or 1 min in 25man
    one of your dots, instantcast
    lifetapping, guess only demo need to do that

    I could throw in DE too but I macro'd it to certain spells.
    Grats, we spell lock and devour magic.

    ----

    Some edit to avoid a catfight
    Demo is nice on 2 targets only if he can deciroll, if its more than 2 targets doesnt matter, it wont perform better the more there are since its a nukespec
    Affliction got no such limitation UA, Corr will do a ton of damage and is not limited to hp of the target or how many of them

    So, no demo is not "arguably the best target-switching" in terms of damge and what other reason is there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  16. #16

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Oh geez it's turning into one of those threads...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis
    Does it? only time you can decimate roll is on trash/saurfang adds cos their hp need to be low enough to get a decent uptime. Know when to pop Meta? Is it really that hard to keep two things in mind:
    * how long the fight will last (how many Metas you can fit)
    * when you will get bloodlust or queenbite etc
    Most of the fights in ICC have some kind of add that facilitates decimation rolling. Instead of being an affliction lock and saying "aw shit, target switch" or outright just not doing it like some affliction locks, you get to be excited about it.

    Popping meta seems easy enough, but it's equally important to know when to NOT use it, ie when a lot of movement is coming up, tear gas, it's off CD but decimation is coming up, etc, and it actually changes for each fight and even for each different group you run with (lower dps = longer fights), where as affliction is the same shit every fight. Plus I think there is some added depth to know if/when you should charge in with immolation aura so you aren't cleaved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis
    Doesnt seem very hard for me, you put 2 dots up and just spam SB, untill you cast 3 incin then wait for sub 35%. So no, unless you speak about trash Demo is hardly the best target-switching spec.
    What are you doing on adds? agony, corruption, UA and maybe some SB filler? Because in most cases Haunt will be on cd from the boss or will be focus-macro'd to the boss to keep crit corruption rolling. Or if you are just spamming SB you aren't putting out nearly the dps on the add that demo is (or destro for that matter) and the ramp up time is longer. Demo is built for target switching... quick ramp up and decimation rolling back to the boss is very nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis
    you curse last 5 mins, instantcast, or 1 min in 25man
    one of your dots, instantcast
    lifetapping, guess only demo need to do that
    I'm running affliction now so I'm not defending as a fanboy, I'm just stating opinion based on running both in raid. If you want to get picky, afflic usually doesn't have to refresh one of its dots, leaving 3 to manage and a nuke. Curse of agony is only refreshed every other recast of haunt/ua usually due to its longer duration. Plus you don't have to make any decisions as to when to switch nukes to use SB vs Incinerate vs SF. Yes both use life tap glyph, I'll give you that, but that something that is equal and doesn't make affliction any harder, or more fun.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zehlkatur
    I have died some times for just blinking away from* balls and straight in to another pair of balls.
    Nerf teabagging!

  17. #17
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Most of the fights in ICC have some kind of add that facilitates decimation rolling
    Marro spikes die to fast, should at least to get even a SB off.
    Whisper, not much uptime
    Saurfang yea works fine here but its uptime wont even get close to affliction damage on this fight since a 100% cycle will be on boss all the time
    Fester nope
    Rotface nope
    Professor, not much uptime so nope
    Prince's decirolling heaven, great here
    Queen nope
    Dream, wouldnt really say its much uptime, worms, supressors get AoE instead, large portion of the uptime is kept moving around to reach the next incomming (30y range suxs ^^)
    Sind nope not really
    LK, not much no, horror got too much hp for decirolling, and rest is singletarget or AoE

    So, again, no?


    What are you doing on adds? agony, corruption, UA and maybe some SB filler? Because in most cases Haunt will be on cd from the boss or will be focus-macro'd to the boss to keep crit corruption rolling. Or if you are just spamming SB you aren't putting out nearly the dps on the add that demo is (or destro for that matter) and the ramp up time is longer. Demo is built for target switching... quick ramp up and decimation rolling back to the boss is very nice.
    We were talking having 2 targets tho, affe in single is a nobrainer but keeping it up perfect on 2 targets, ex. LK & horror is a real challange when taken into the account all the awareness needed in that fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  18. #18

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Destro for busrt demo for aoe affliction for single target. Any questions?

  19. #19

    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demaworc
    Destro for busrt demo for aoe affliction for single target. Any questions?
    no. Affliction shines on dualtarget, demo shines whenever you can proc decimation on adds, destro...well yeah, it is burst.

    Just saying you cannot put it that simple.
    â–²

  20. #20
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction or Destruction?

    To put something about affliction dualtargeting a bit into perspective I came to think of LK hc. We try to kill off the horrors with necrotic plauge as much as we can. Damage on them isnt really that importat as far as the raid goes.
    However if my warlock keep corruption and UA rolling on the horror while he stay on LK as everyone else my dps will be ~3k+ more than any demo (destro as well I recon). Not cos of the extra damage on the horror itself but cos I will get much more eradication and 4set procs cos I roll em on both. If i wanted to keep full rotation on both it would be even highter but damage done on LK is what matters in p1 so we all train LK as much as we can.
    This is just another example of how dominating affliction is on 2+ target compared to other specs. Sure Demo could keep up but only if the hp was low enough on the secondary target for them to deciroll, which is not the case. Since I mentioned that damage isnt that important on the horror its important to point out that when Skada is looked at the damage on LK will be above the other two specs as well by alot, even if I wasted time on the horror. Simply cos of the two increased proccs.

    All specs obviously got 4set bonus available to proc but Eradication is king. A decent uptime of Eradication will just wipe the plate clean. Destro and Demo just cant compete with that talent in any way.

    Destro for busrt demo for aoe affliction for single target. Any questions?
    Not a question, just a statement. You dont know what you are talking about
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

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